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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: asilky on Tuesday 26 August 14 02:48 BST (UK)
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Hi All
is there a inquest of a Ann Daley murdered 24th july 1839 or that is the date of inquest there is no registration of death NSW
murdered at Maitland or Paterson by John Gorman.
I am after a copy of inquest as I have to work out if this in my relative
Thank you Silky
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This burial may be her:
Burial 1839
DALEY, UNKNOWN
District: Maitland, West Maitland, New South Wales
V183955 122A
Registrations of death did not start until 1856.
Debra :)
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The Australian7Nov1839 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36863593 ( right- hand column)
John Gorman and John McBride were indicted, the former for the wilful murder of a woman named Ann, Daley, with whom he co-habited, and the latter for being present, aiding and abetting in the same, at Maitland, on the 21st July last. It appeared that on the day named the prisoner Gorman beat the woman, severely with a stick, the alleged cause of which appeared to be intoxication, from the effects of which she died. The evidence against McBride was anything but satisfactory, and he was acquitted under His Honor's direction. Gorman, guilty. Sentence of death was immediately passed on him.
Also in The Sydney Gazette and New South Wales Advertiser 7 Nov1839 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2550012
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 4.
(Before the Chief Justice.)
John Gorman was indicted for the wilful murder of Ann Daley, at Maitland, by beating her with a stick, on the 21st July, and John M'Bride was indicted for being present aiding and assisting. The prisoner Gorman and the deceased had lived together, and frequently quarrelled. On the day laid in the indictment, while the woman was drunk, Gorman beat her so violently with a stick as to cause her death. McBride was present but took no part in it. The Jury found Gorman guilty, but acquitted McBride. His Honor passed sentence of death upon Gorman.
The Sydney Herald 6Nov1839 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12860406 (right-hand column)
The Colonist 6Nov1839 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31723976 (2nd column lower half)
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Thank you debra
that may be her burial I wish it had which part of Maitland.
I have all that horrible details of murder from trove I thought the inquest may mention her husbands name or some detail that can help me.I am not sure if she is my relative.
silky
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Hi All
another thing I would like to know is what happens to children when their parents are dead Sarah(daughter) was a witness to the murder and had to give evidence 8yrs old.Trove It was maitland NSW would they be put into foster homes or orphanage?
silky
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The records on ancestry are the Registers of Coroners Inquests. They don't have the actual inquests. The register comes from State Records so I am guessing they will have the inquests.
Ann's record reads:
516 Paterson 24th July Anne Daly or Daley 10th August Coroner Murder? J Gorman.
If you PM me your email address I can email you the page.
Debbie
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Thank you so much for your help Debbie I now know where to chase it up
silky
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Many libraries have library edition Ancestry for use in the library by library members. They have the same information as the subscription editions except for the family trees submitted by Ancestry members.
Regards
Jennaya
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Hi All
have searched high and low and still cannot find the actual inquest emailed Paterson court house they told me state library they told me to try Maitland They told me to try other places but nothing.
I am trying to get some information of who Ann is if she was a convict if she was married to Thomas daley or maybe where she comes from.I would then know if she is my relative
silky ???.
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As far as I am aware no inquest papers have survived for that period, and earlier indexed registers do not provide personal information.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-4
Debra :)
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Hi there,
Following on from Debra, may I quote from that guide
Card index to inquests, 1834-36, 1839-44, 1852-58, 1867-68, 1870-75
This index was compiled by State Records staff and is held at the Western Sydney Reading Room.
It complements the following series NRS 344.
1839-44 lists surnames A-G only
Perhaps you could contact NSW SRO direct and ask for further information about that Card Index ad the series it complements.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/contact-us/contact-us
Add, yes, like Debra, I too have understood that no inquest papers have survived for that period.
Cheers, JM
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Hi All
another thing I would like to know is what happens to children when their parents are dead Sarah(daughter) was a witness to the murder and had to give evidence 8yrs old.Trove It was maitland NSW would they be put into foster homes or orphanage?
silky
There is an index entry for an Ellen DALEY’s admission to the Female Protestant Orphan School 30 Oct 1839 at the following NSW SRO index.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=74&new=1 (Child Care and Protection)
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Agency\398 Female Orphan School.
Admission book (Female)
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Series\12266 With the following note “There is an index in the front of the volume; however, the A to D Section is missing."
Cheers, JM
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Thank you guys for your help
will contact the reading rooms in western syd .I feel I will not find anything its so long ago.
The child in question is Sarah Daley I don't even know if her father was still living then 1836 there is a death of Thomas Daley 1834 aged 28yrs age is right but not sure if its him he was at Maitland when sent to Aus 1829 from county Tyrone Anne being his wife sent to Paterson plains 1829 ship Edward.Her maiden name was Walker.2 Anne Walkers on ship Edward one unmarried
thanks silky
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Her burial is most likely in St Joseph's RC Register at East Maitland.
DALEY Unknown bur. 1839
Ref Number: V183955 122A
Parish: East Maitland; Maitland; West Maitland, Roman Catholic
Sometimes the ship of arrival is named on the register if known.
You will find this burial on the following microfilm freely available at many libraries & FHS's as it's part of the NSW ARK Kit.
Supplementary Register Burials 1834-1895 Vol. 122 Reel 5046-47
Six Catholic parishes established were East Maitland 1835 (the first Catholic church built north
of Sydney was the first St Joseph’s Church in 1835), Newcastle 1838, West Maitland 1841, Singleton 1845, Taree 1846, Raymond Terrace 1852.
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Thank you merlin
silky
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I don't even know if her father was still living then 1836 there is a death of Thomas Daley 1834 aged 28yrs age is right but not sure if its him he was at Maitland when sent to Aus 1829 from county Tyrone.
This is Thomas DALEY. He left a good paper trail & was easy to trace :)
He received his ToL 1833 & CoF 1834 at Maitland which were later revoked.
Thomas DALEY: Mangles 1828; 33/197; 1833; Ticket of Leave; District: Maitland; Born: Tyrone; Trade: Labourer; Tried: Monaghan - 34/1215; 30 Sep 1834; Certificate of Freedom
He got himself into trouble many times going by police & gaol records. That ended with him being transported again to other places in the colony. Norfolk Is, Cockatoo Is, back to Norfolk Is & finally VDL.
The following links contain pages of his digitised records that you can download & read as there is too much for me to transcribe & post here ;)
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON37-1-3,404,50,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON17-1-1,386,180,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON17-1-1,386,181,L,80
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=16942
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Hi Merlin
thank you for finding Thomas how tragic for poor Sarah the child Is this my family it looks that way I only have one hiccup and that's how did little Sarah get to Erina NSW 1853 to be married to Edward moulden one would think she would end up in Maitland.Thats my only worry is that there may be 2 Sarahs nothing on her death with her parents names.I was sick to think poor Thomas ended up in port Arthur his first crime stealing a hat its so much like the fellow in The term of his natural life.Ending up in the 2 worst places .I cant thank you enough for what you have found even though its tragic like the wifes death.
silky :'(
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Do you have witness names from the marriage of Sarah DALEY? Sometimes they can give clues to the people who raised her.
Debra :)
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What do you know about Sarah's siblings- if she had any?
Do you have copies of the baptism/s from the microfilms that give you any information?
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Hi Debra
the witnesses are Maria and Samuel Best from Erina both Edward Moulden and Samuel were sawyers so I am presuming that is how they met.Later both families lived at Bellingen.I have all info on Bests and Mouldens but my brick wall is my Sarah is she the child of the murdered mother Anne.I know sometimes you can take the wrong road in ancestry because of lack of information.
.My Sarah could have been sent out later as a free person .The first I knew of her is when she married 1853 and the only birth was 1831 Maitland the other children born to Thomas and anne Daley BDM are not the same parents I sent for John and Maryanns birth and Mother was Anne Dodd Castlereagh St Sydney.On the marriage Erina it does say Sarah from this parish.They were Roman catholics.
silky
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Hi All
I am off to the library tomorrow to look at the death at East Maitland to see if its a child or Anne will let rootschat know my findings.
silky
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hi all
have found that Mary Kelly ship Houghley was also on trial for the murder of Anne Daley, she must have been the girlfriend of John Mcbride.ship Sophia .John Gorman ship Asia.was hung for the murder.
Thomas and anne Daley were together in 1834 at a place called Illulong later called Morpeth they were witnesses to James Brownlee and Julia Carey wedding Maitland... James came out on ship Mangles with Thomas Daley.1828
silky
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Hi there,
There were three lasses named Mary KELLY on the Hooghley arriving 1831.
Mary Kelly CF 9 Oct 1837 was prisoner no. 31/0322; Mary Kelly CF 10 Dec 1839 was prisoner no. 31/0436 and Mary Kelly, CF 29 Dec 1839 was prisoner No. 31/0465.
Which one of these was the Mary Kelly who you have found also on trial for the murder of Anne Daley, and why do you think she was the girlfriend of John McBride?
The Thomas DALEY who was transported on the Mangles in 1828 was a married man as per the convict Indents etc. June 1828 has him as aged 24, born Tyrone, a Roman Catholic, he could read, was a Farm Servant, and he was noted as a married man, but no children. His crime was stealing hats. He had been convicted 30 July 1827 at Monaghan, Ireland, arriving Sydney 2 June 1828, and assigned to J B WELLER, Iron Bark Creek NSW.
ADD
Anne DALEY arriving14 June 1832 ex the Southworth (2) aged 27, can read, a Roman Catholic, Married, of County Westmeath, can do all work, plain cook, tried July 1831 at King’s County for Stealing money, …. Her husband was Michael DALEY, convicted at same time. I have not found a Certificate of Freedom for this lass.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
My Anne Daley came out under maiden name Anne Walker I have she was found guilty with husband Thomas both stealing hats 1827.Anne arrived 1829 Edward sent to Patersons plains.Daughter Sarah born 1831 Derwick Grove via Maitland I presume its near Paterson or Morpeth.On records both copies Anne and Thomas are recorded as married to each other.Dont know which Mary Kelly as it doesn't say
Silky
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Hi
I think she was the girlfriend as there were 2 woman and 2 men in the house and Gorman was the defacto of Anne .I can only presume that .
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Hi
NSW entry book 1818 1920 has 3 on trial for murder of Anne Daley Maitland.She was murdered at Paterson.NSW 1838 trove.
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Hi
My Anne Daley came out under maiden name Anne Walker I have she was found guilty with husband Thomas both stealing hats 1827.Anne arrived 1829 Edward sent to Patersons plains.Daughter Sarah born 1831 Derwick Grove via Maitland I presume its near Paterson or Morpeth.On records both copies Anne and Thomas are recorded as married to each other.Dont know which Mary Kelly as it doesn't say
Silky
The Anne Walker ex the Edward in 1829 is noted at the NSW SRO’s index “Applications to Marry”
James FITZPATRICK ex the A D Charles, aged 34, Life Sentence, on a Ticket of Leave
and
Anne WALKER, ex the Edward, aged 28, 7 yrs sentence, on a Bond. Date of Permission 21 Oct 1829, Rev’d J E Keane, Bathurst
Anne WALKER ex the Edward was issued with a TL (31/757) in the Paterson Plains district, born Tyrone County, a servant, tried Monaghan.
Her CF (341204) was issued 30 September 1834.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=68
The FITZPATRICK-WALKER marriage 16 Nov 1829, Kelso or Bathurst NSW, was C of E
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCY-W3N
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZJ-162
NSW BDM has the 1829 marriage indexed twice.
Thomas DALEY ex the Mangles was issued with a ToL in 1833. ??? as per NSW SRO Convict indexes.
Cheers, JM
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I am off to the library tomorrow to look at the death at East Maitland to see if its a child or Anne will let rootschat know my findings.
Did you?
If so, what information was on the burial register?
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Thomas Daley was in the Maitland district when not in Sydney Gaols during the 1830s.
Thomas DALEY ex the Mangles, born 1803 Co Tyrone, Catholic, Labourer, was 5ft 5 inches, stout, fresh complexion, dark hair, Grey eyes, when committed to Gaol in Sydney in 1838. He had previously (in 1834) been at the Sydney Gaol, sent there from Newcastle, to await a Trial, for which he was found Not Guilty and discharged 12 May 1834. The 1838 trial resulted in a sentence of “Transportation to Norfolk Island 16 October 1838.” He seems to have received a further 7 year sentence of Transportation PS (Penal Servitude) in April 1843.
Cheers, JM
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Thomas Daley was in the Maitland district when not in Sydney Gaols during the 1830s.
Thomas DALEY ex the Mangles, born 1803 Co Tyrone, Catholic, Labourer, was 5ft 5 inches, stout, fresh complexion, dark hair, Grey eyes, when committed to Gaol in Sydney in 1838. He had previously (in 1834) been at the Sydney Gaol, sent there from Newcastle, to await a Trial, for which he was found Not Guilty and discharged 12 May 1834. The 1838 trial resulted in a sentence of “Transportation to Norfolk Island 16 October 1838.” He seems to have received a further 7 year sentence of Transportation PS (Penal Servitude) in April 1843.
Plenty of details & links about Thomas & his escapades in my reply #15 ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=697273.msg5429445#msg5429445
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My Anne Walker was sentenced Monahan same day as Thomas Daley stealing hats... husband and wife... have found their marriage in Tyrone ... going by all records Anne Walker was sent to Patersons plains another younger girl called Anne walker on ship Edward was also sent to John Tucker Hunter valley .Now I have the birth certificate of Sarah Daley mother Anne Walker father Thomas daley .They were not together after 1834 .Sarah aged 8yrs in 1839 witnessed the death of her mother and gave evidence against John Gorman.There are 7 Thomas Daleys. I have all records of these 2 but can you tell me where you got that Thomas Daley went to Iron Bark Creek as there was another Thomas daley from Monahan that came on Midas but was transcribed Mangles. I have found a lot wrong when transcribed.....I have their TOLs no mention of Iron bark creek thats the first I have heard of it silky
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Hi Merlin
it seems that the last thing on Thomas daley record he absconded but no more only Gaz Librarian in Tassie told me Gaz is Gazette so he disappears that's all I have so far.
Thank you again Silky
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Sorry merlin haven't been to library yet
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Hi there Silky
I am confuddled by your comment that you have Sarah's birth certificate. Civil registration does not commence in NSW until 1856, and yet you have Sarah as aged 8 in 1839.
Now I have the birth certificate of Sarah Daley mother Anne Walker father Thomas daley .They were not together after 1834 .Sarah aged 8yrs in 1839 witnessed the death of her mother and gave evidence against John Gorman........ can you tell me where you got that Thomas Daley went to Iron Bark Creek
I will go back through my earlier notes to see where the mention of Iron Bark Creek came from.
Hi there Merlin,
Sorry for duplicating your earlier posts.
Cheers, JM
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I read the following snip as Iron Bark Creek.
It refers to Thomas Daley and mentions his ToL reference 33/197 on that same document.
Cheers, JM
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I read the following snip as Iron Bark Creek.
Yes, it does say Iron Bark Creek JM ;)
The Disposal List for the convicts arriving 1828 on the Mangles (5) have Thomas DALEY being assigned to J B WELLER at Iron Bark Creek.
J B WELLER = Joseph Brooks WELLER.
Plenty of info available for him, his brothers & family.
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sorry its the baptism certificate with date of birth Rev Therry
silky :D
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does anyone know where Iron Bark creek is
silky
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Yes & so would you if you just searched the internet ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01a5d/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01a5c/
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Hi I did google it but it took me to Tamworth so I knew that was wrong ???
thank you for us oldies with foggy brains ... I have seen a photo of Sarah Daley which was lost in my grandmothers home but she did show me and said her mother was a Walker.That was my lead when I started .I still am not 100% sure these are my great great grandparents.You can only go by what you find and hope that its right the only hiccup now is why it has Anne Walker aged 28 Edward permission to marry Bathurst 1829 State archives ??? when she was married .It does have it on her record .so now its a bit confusing and I will spend more time going back over my research.thanks to all that have helped in this thread.Without you I would be lost
Silky
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thank you for us oldies with foggy brains ...
;D Well, I guess you better add me to that list also as being born before WW2 ended counts ;)
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the only hiccup now is why it has Anne Walker aged 28 Edward permission to marry Bathurst 1829 State archives ??? when she was married .It does have it on her record .so now its a bit confusing and I will spend more time going back over my research
Anne Walker was not just given permission to marry, but actually did marry James Fitzpatrick.
The Anne Walker ex the Edward in 1829 is noted at the NSW SRO’s index “Applications to Marry”
James FITZPATRICK ex the A D Charles, aged 34, Life Sentence, on a Ticket of Leave
and
Anne WALKER, ex the Edward, aged 28, 7 yrs sentence, on a Bond. Date of Permission 21 Oct 1829, Rev’d J E Keane, Bathurst
.....
The FITZPATRICK-WALKER marriage 16 Nov 1829, Kelso or Bathurst NSW, was C of E
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCY-W3N
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZJ-162
NSW BDM has the 1829 marriage indexed twice.
This marriage for FITZPATRICK-WALKER was a C of E marriage; it was not a Roman Catholic marriage. The baptism of Sarah by Rev Therry would be a Roman Catholic service. A baptism in NSW does not mean that the birth occurred in NSW. Yes, of course, a birth date can be recorded on a baptismal record, but does that baptism certificate actually say the place of birth, or just the date of birth and the place of baptism.
I think you will need to consider who was Sarah's father, and what happened to James Fitzpatrick. And of course, you need to determine if the Anne DALEY who was murdered 24 July 1839 was actually Sarah's mother. I have not yet found the name of the child witness mentioned in the newspapers.
Cheers, JM (foggy brained NSW centric)
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Hi to all
On Baptism Sarah when born 29th sept 1831 date of ceremony 29th oct 1832
father Thomas Daley Mother Anne Walker abode Derwick Grove via Maitland .
sponsors Christopher Daley and Bridget Ryan.
By Whom Revd J J Therry
I know my grandmothers family were RC.
yes I see a year between birth and baptism but Rev Therry only came once or twice a year from St Marys Sydney and baptized all and married all in one go and took his little book back to Sydney and put them in St Marys Register.
Silky
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Thanks for typing up that info. Yes, many of the clergy of all the denominations were able to get to the outer lying districts infrequently, as they were travelling long distances, on their circuits.
Have you investigated the following two baptisms …. perhaps a sidetrack, but it is not unusual for the nee surname of a lass transported to NSW to be the surname used on various records in NSW.
So, here’s what appears to be two baptisms, BUT in fact, in my opinion, it was just one baptism, and the clergy were simply abiding by the general orders regarding the transmission of their records to the NSW CHAPLAINS. and the clergy recorded the surname as WALKER. You will of course notice the given names for the recorded parents of this wee lass.
Anna F WALKER, with parents given as Thomas and Anna E, in 1830, (Vol 15, line 46) so a C of E baptism,
and
Ann F WALKER, with parents given as Thomas and Ann E, in 1831 (Volume 1C, line 10515) so a C of E baptism, likely a transmitted record, perhaps a transmission of the one I have noted above, but of course you would need to consider both documents in case these are for two separate baptisms.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCD-GLY gives birthdate as 21 June 1830 and baptism 16 May 1831, Anna Frances Walker, with parents as Thomas and Anna Elizabeth WALKER , and I am of the opinion that NSW BDM currently has this referenced as 46/1830, (which I credit to Vol 15, line 46)
and
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTX4-JZ4 does not give birthdate, but gives baptism date 16 May 1831, and parents as Thomas and Anna Elizabeth WALKER so in my opinion, this would be the transcription for the NSW BDM entry currently referenced as 10515/1831 (which I credit to Volume 1C, line 10515, 1831)
So perhaps you need to continue to search for further leads on your Sarah DALEY, perhaps under the surname FITZPATRICK, or under WALKER, and also remember that the NSW BDM’s Early Church Records are definitely NOT a full compliment of all the baptisms, burials or marriages for NSW before civil registration.
The NSW State Library has film of many of the Early Church Records. The NSW BDM does NOT have the original handwritten versions, and their website confirms that. “1788 – 1855 …….. Today, our transcriptions are computer format as we don’t hold original handwritten versions of church records” http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/therry-john-joseph-2722
Cheers, JM
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Hi the records are copied from one register to another so when it has no children on original that is right it also has Married on firth record single on second or 3rd record but all other info is correct.So down the track he has a baby .Most convict records are copied from the original.Now that's how the mistakes were made because people doing it could barely read or write.
All my grandmothers stories correspond with what I have found also in bible.My gran knew all about Sarah told by her mother.We know they were Irish Catholics and strict ..
I will keep looking.I never close the book.
silky
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Hi the records are copied from one register to another so when it has no children on original that is right it also has Married on firth record single on second or 3rd record but all other info is correct.So down the track he has a baby .Most convict records are copied from the original.Now that's how the mistakes were made because people doing it could barely read or write.
All my grandmothers stories correspond with what I have found also in bible.My gran knew all about Sarah told by her mother.We know they were Irish Catholics and strict ..
I will keep looking.I never close the book.
silky
Silky,
"down the track he has a baby" ..... I am not trying to be pedantic, but ..... the name of the father on any baptismal record is no guarantee that that person is the biological father..... (And similar for civil registrations !)
Cheers, JM
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So you need to be able to move Anne Walker (married to James Fitzpatrick) from Bathurst region in late 1829 to Maitland region in early 1831, while she is still under her original sentence ......
Cheers, JM
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It seems that the Ann WALKER ex the Edward 1829 who was assigned to John Tucker, Hunter River, was serving a LIFE sentence, and was aged 20 when transported. This does not seem to be your Anne WALKER, who also arrived on the Edward in 1829, as she was under a 7 year sentence, and was aged 28.
Cheers, JM
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Hi mj
in that case nobody is sure of their father only their mother so why do we do family history.
My Sarah is DALEY .whether Thomas is the father or not she married under Daley not Walker or any other name .I am sorry that other peoples research is not what you think and you can find hiccups in everyones research and wrong things I find it all the time I have been researching for 30yrs and do class myself as a good detective I know rootschat has some really good people and that is why I ask you things but when someone picks the research to pieces and goes to other parts of Australia other than where free or felon puts her I cannot work that one out better still work out when Anne Walker got here not the one on the Edward.What you have told me I have researched and a Anne Walker married from Edward did go to Patersons Plains .1829 when would she have time to forget she is married find another man and apply for permission all in 1829.fast worker broken arm and all.
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Hi to all
On Baptism Sarah when born 29th sept 1831 date of ceremony 29th oct 1832
father Thomas Daley Mother Anne Walker abode Derwick Grove via Maitland .
sponsors Christopher Daley and Bridget Ryan.
By Whom Revd J J Therry
I see that one of the lasses named as Ann WALKER, ex the Edward 1829 is listed at the Free Settler or Felon website as obtaining her Ticket of Leave for good conduct in service 24 September 1831 at Pattersons Plains. The Reference given is "SG", which I presume is the Sydney Gazette.
Silky, that is just several days before you have Sarah as being born at Derwick Grove, via Maitland. So you might like to consider making contact with the following enquirer
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY/2011-07/1309999982 as perhaps they may have some info about your Anne WALKER.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-NSW-HILLS-HAWKESBURY-HUNTER-VALLEY/2011-07/1310036385
Of course, here's the link to the Free Settler or Felon website, but don't overlook searching out the sources for the info found there, to confirm the validity of the info presented. I tend to hunt out the original documents, as that's my preference.
http://www.jenwilletts.com/index.htm
ADD
:) From the home page for Free Settler or Felon "Search the Free Settler or Felon database from the Search Box above to find your Newcastle or Hunter Valley ancestor. "
Cheers, JM
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From the Bound Indentures ex the Edward 1829, from Ireland, Commander GILBERT
These two lasses share very similar physical descriptions, including height, scar on left thumb .....
67
Anne WALKER aged 20, Read, Catholic, single , no family, of Kildare, Housemaid & Diarymaid, Stole Money, Tried Dublin, 7 January 1828, sentenced to Life, no previous convictions, 5 ft 3 ¾ inches, Ruddy freckled complexion, Brown hair, hazel eyes, Raised mole on right cheek, scar at top of left thumb. Assigned to John TUCKER, Hunter River.
105
Anne WALKER, aged 28, Read/Write, Catholic, Married, of Tyrone, Country Servant, Stole Hats, Tried Monaghan 30 July 1827, 7 years, no previous convictions, 5 ft 3 inches, Refreshed complexion, Dark Brown Hair, Brown eyes, scar over right eye, right arm disjointed, scar at the top of left thumb Husband …. Thos Daley Mangles (5) The indenture does not show where she was assigned.
Cheers, JM
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Its really funny as I have my 28yrs old from Tyrone on one record as Ruddy frecked face same as younger one could they have mixed them up? who knows.Is that where I get my freckles from and my pure white skin .Green eyes .Have to be Irish.All others in family are dark skinned except my brother who was frecked and dark red hair green eyes .
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I paid a researcher to find Derwick grove Maitland to no avail looked up all old maps could have been a property not registered I do have onother person whos ggg.grandparents were married there.So yes it did exist .
silky
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Yes, I realised Derwick Grove existed, but did you look at the surname of the person making the initial enquiry?
I think I have located the first assignment for 1460 Anne WALKER aged 28, ex the Edward 1829, I think it was to George Druitt, of Mount Druitt.... west of Parramatta, so on the road that led to Bathurst. (The Ann Walker who went to John Tucker, Hunter River was no. 1456)
Cheers, JM
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That Anne is 25yrs on indents ship Edward of London meaning from London.married at Bathurst.
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Re the application to marry FITZPATRICK-WALKER
The commercial website ANCESTRY has the image uploaded.
I read that that Anne was assigned to Mr Johnston.
I further read that Anne was aged 28 (originally written as 25), a spinster, ex the Edward of London, 7 years, bond, assigned to Mr Johnston, who gave leave for the couple to marry “leave of master given”
There’s an asterisk and it leads to the following written words “Married, husband Thomas Daly here per 5 Mangles”
Cheers, JM
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So who is the TOL person I have 28 came on Edward from Tyrone place Maitland broken arm .scars on eye
silky
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So who is the TOL person I have 28 came on Edward from Tyrone place Maitland broken arm .scars on eye
silky
Likely she is the lass who married James Fitzpatrick in Bathurst in late 1829.
ADD
Perhaps follow the disjointed right arm lass :)
Cheers, JM
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If so why issued at maitland?
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They do not allow you to marry unless husband is dead we know he was still alive 1853
she would have been knocked back.Cannot find record where it says married to Thomas daley on permission record
Silk
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They do not allow you to marry unless husband is dead we know he was still alive 1853
she would have been knocked back.Cannot find record where it says married to Thomas daley on permission record
Silk
That's not actually correct. There's quite a number of marriages in NSW where one or both had been previously married, and the first spouse was alive and well and also living in NSW. Perhaps you may care to read the following research paper.... Perhaps Anne Walker was of the understanding that by being transported, her earlier marriage was ended. http://www.aifs.org.au/institute/seminars/finlay.html
Re the record where it says married to Thomas Daly, the asterisk is against Anne Walker's name, and the words it points to are at the bottom of the page.
Cheers, JM
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On Baptism Sarah when born 29th sept 1831 date of ceremony 29th oct 1832
father Thomas Daley Mother Anne Walker abode Derwick Grove via Maitland .
sponsors Christopher Daley and Bridget Ryan.
So, who is Christopher DALEY & have you researched him ?
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If so why issued at maitland?
According to NSW SRO's index, the ToL 31/757, was issued at Patricks Plains .... which I think you will find is basically Singleton rather than Maitland.
EDIT TO NOTE My mistake, it was issued at Paterson's Plains.
Cheers, JM
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It is Patersons Plains I have been there .Near Maitland.Morpeth where Thomas and Anne Daley where living 1834 is also close to Paterson
I have looked all over the district.Beautiful country.
Silky
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I must have a different TOL it doesn't read like that also what record has the asterick against Anne with Thomas Daleys name I would like to see that is it on Ancestry?
silky
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I must have a different TOL it doesn't read like that also what record has the asterick against Anne with Thomas Daleys name I would like to see that is it on Ancestry?
silky
YES, it is on Ancestry.
It is Patersons Plains I have been there .Near Maitland.Morpeth where Thomas and Anne Daley where living 1834 is also close to Paterson
I have looked all over the district.Beautiful country.
Silky
I live at Nords Wharf, on the eastern side of Lake Macquarie. Many of my family history friends live in the Singleton district. Others live in the Maitland district.
Yes, Maitland and Morpeth are situated in beautiful country. Singleton is also in beautiful country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton,_New_South_Wales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitland,_New_South_Wales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpeth,_New_South_Wales
ADD, YES it is Paterson's Plains .... my mistake. :-[
Cheers, JM
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My relatives live at Nords wharf too
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thank you MJ found it at last well Anne Walker Edward is not my ancestor .So now have to find Sarahs parents. ???
What I cant understand is Thomas and Anne Daley 1834 witnesses at a marriage at Morpeth to James Brownlee Mangles 5 is this just a coincidence. ???
silk
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thank you MJ found it at last well Anne Walker Edward is not my ancestor .So now have to find Sarahs parents. ???
What I cant understand is Thomas and Anne Daley 1834 witnesses at a marriage at Morpeth to James Brownlee Mangles 5 is this just a coincidence. ???
silk
What are the details from that 1834 marriage? What denomination? What date? all the details please....
It may well be that that's the Thomas DALEY ex the Mangles 5, but as to Anne DALEY .... I am not sure who she was. Afterall, James BROWNLEE, aged 31, born Armagh, Ireland, Protestant, reads, Farm servant and Butcher, married, 2 children, stole a cow, trial 3 Aug 1827 Armagh, transported per Mangles 5, assigned to J P Webber, Patersons Plains, then later and under a colonial sentence, sent to Norfolk Island. ToL Patersons Plain, 33/214; CF 34/1216, 30 Sept 1834. (same day and one number after Thomas DALY’s CF)
Cheers, JM
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I have no details of wedding found it on a site Brownlee family.Only the names Thomas and Anne Daley Illiloung (Morpeth)witnesses I am going away for a holiday after all that I am only interested in Daley I have found TOL 31/757 of Anne Walker Edward broken right arm .....Allowed to remain in Patersons Plains dated 31st may 1831 date of trial 30 july 1827 per muster roll.year of birth 1802
Dark complexion dark hair brown eyes all of a sudden her looks have changed cant work that out
5ft 4inches same as me. Before she had freckles .convict no 47091 .
silky
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Might stick my head into a couple of the local museums and family history clubs. One to Find you mystery DERWICK GROVE is? Hmm and I live in the area ???
Your Sarah may bob up somewhere, I will see if some of the Old Timers can scratch their heads and find a splinter of truth.
Neil
Oh yes, very beautiful area, I enhance it so gracefully :-*
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I have no details of wedding found it on a site Brownlee family.Only the names Thomas and Anne Daley Illiloung (Morpeth)witnesses
That is submitted information and would need to be verified before you try to establish who Thomas and Anne DALEY, the witnesses at that wedding, were. You could obtain the official transcription of the 1834 marriage.
Cheers, JM
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http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-PT-JACKSON-CONVICTS/2001-10/1003328737
Some info re the 1834 marriage BROWNLEE-CAREY, with witnesses Thomas DALEY and Anne DALEY
:) all signed with their mark suggesting none could write their own name
:) nothing mentioned that Thomas and Anne were married to each other . they could be siblings, cousins, Aunt and Nephew, Uncle and niece, or simply strangers with same surname, or perhaps Thomas Daley co-habitating with a lass with first name of Anne, so she was known at that time as Anne Daley.
Cheers, JM
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tidying up my desk so I will post these notes
From NSW BDM Early Church Records we can see Sarah’s baptism was transmitted a number of times.
Sarah DALEY, Thomas and Anne, Vol 125, line 2293, 1831 (“e” in Daley and in Anne)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann, Vol 127, line 2261, 1831 (no “e’” in Daly or Ann)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann W, vol 129, line 44, 1831 (no ‘”e” in Daly or Ann, but Ann has a middle name starting with W) I would suspect that Vol 129, line 44 may be the initial record, and the others were transmissions stemming from that.
Would this be a baptism for one of Sarah’s Children? Here her birth surname is DALY and her married surname is MOULDING…and the baby is Maryanne Moulding baptised 1 Oct 1854 (NSW BDM has same spelling) Perhaps there's a pointer to Sarah's mum being Anne in this baby's given names. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDX-MD3
Would this be Sarah’s marriage? Here her birth surname is DALEY and her married surname is MOULDEN https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZN-YQY (NSW BDM has same spelling)
Cheers, JM
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Annie daley ship Edward tried 1827 Monahan servant cany read most of it
Ancestry.
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Hi all I hope we can find Sarahs parents her name is daley /daly.
that is what this thread is about.was she found under a cabbage leaf??
silky
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I remember some 30-40 years ago that there were lots of Cabbages around the Maitland Flats, Morpeth and Paterson Flats areas. Possibly she was under one of them if my memory serves me well they were quite large cabbages too.
Sadly they mostly only grow some corn and stock feeds there now.
But I am sure there is a much more plausible reason for her to be missing on records. 8)
Neil
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I find it quiet remarkable how some people can manipulate history to suit themselves seen it many times .I have always bought my information seeing I started in 1970's old michrofiche at the library
reels a mile long I have early records of all my ancestors but the ones that I have never found are Daleys ....Found many historians are wrong with a lot I too admit I was wrong about Anne on Edward but I was never sure.Still cant work out why she is at Patersons Plains 1831/32 TOL I was always told that they could only stay in area where TOL was given until free.Is this wrong too?
asilky ::)
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Hi to all the rootschat people :)
Thank You so much for all the help I have received over many years I am now going away for a holiday I have just come back from Morpeth and Maitland always drawn there don't know why.Before I knew of Daleys at Morpeth.I am very spiritual and knew I was in the wrong cemetery when I tripped and fell through the fence face first I said to my husband its the wrong place it wasn't Catholic it was C of E and it was at Paterson.Did I read that right????Who knows.bye now
silky
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Other threads about Anne Walker and Thomas Daley and Sarah Daley
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=494147.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=290270.0
ADD
Sarah MOULDEN’s funeral announcements, to move from her residence 99 Dowling St, Woolloomooloo
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13579996 SMH 15 April 1885
Sarah MOULDING’s sudden death, 99 Dowling St Woolloomooloo.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13574407 SMH 14 April 1885
NSW BDM online index has
1885 Sarah MOULDING, age 55 years, Died Sydney. #833
A probable reason for lack of parental information on that 1885 dc could be attributed to the possibility that there was an Inquest into the sudden death of this Sarah. Perhaps our OP has already researched that possibility.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
This thread was started by me about information on the Murder of Ann daley at Paterson so if you want to help me that would be the way to go. Its important to me to find if Anne that was killed at Paterson is my relative we still haven't established that I haven't got anywhere in 9 pages.
Just going around in circles.
silky
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I am off to the library tomorrow to look at the death at East Maitland to see if its a child or Anne will let rootschat know my findings.
Did you?
If so, what information was on the burial register?
Sorry merlin haven't been to library yet
I think the burial register should be on your TO DO list. I think you have progressed your quest considerably, in the last 9 pages, afterall, you have reached a conclusion about Anne Walker, so you have eliminated her from your possibles for mum of Sarah .... :)
thank you MJ found it at last well Anne Walker Edward is not my ancestor .So now have to find Sarahs parents. ???
What I cant understand is Thomas and Anne Daley 1834 witnesses at a marriage at Morpeth to James Brownlee Mangles 5 is this just a coincidence. ???
silk
Cheers, JM
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no you are wrong I have only established anne Walker from Edward is not my Anne but Sarahs mother was a Walker by my grandmothers word..The baptism of Sarah I have from Maitland isn't the Edward Anne but is Anne walker maybe immigrated .Plus why would my grandmother tell me that we were related to Daleys and Walkers.That they were irish .Its early records I am after.I want to know why Annie Daley on record from Edward is also Anne Walker on record and what happened to the other Anne walker who went to John Tucker aged 20 why couldn't she be my Anne
Chasing that up .Going to watch my South Sydney
Silky
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and what happened to the other Anne walker who went to John Tucker aged 20 why couldn't she be my Anne
Chasing that up .Going to watch my South Sydney
Silky
Re Derwick Grove, via Maitland
I caught up with one of my fh buffs this morning. They have phoned me back with the following info re Derwick Grove, via Maitland.
It needs further research at NSW SRO and at Land & Property but they suspect that a Richard BINDER ex the Glatton 1803 was an early or perhaps the first possessor of the land, and that by 1829 John TUCKER, junior, a settler of Pattersons River, was likely occupying Derwick Grove, on the Paterson River)
I can see from the NSW SRO’s
:) Index to Early Probate Records that there’s a Probate mentioned for 1838 for a John TUCKER of Patersons Plains.
:) ColSec re Land
There’s a John TUCKER (Junior) 1829-1829 (reel 1191)
There’s a Richard and Ann BINDER 1829-1831/4 SEE Patersons Plains -small settlers reel 1244/and Newcastle allotments reel 1245
and Mr Google gives :
http://www.patersonriver.com.au/people/tuckerjhnjnr.htm
http://www.patersonriver.com.au/people/powellj.htm
My fh buffs commented that Charlotte TUCKER, sister of John TUCKER junior, was at ORANGE GROVE, which was her husband’s property (She was married to John POWELL), while John TUCKER junior was likely at DERWICK GROVE.
John Tucker, junior at the Hunter River was the settler to whom the 20 year old Ann WALKER (1456), sentenced to Life, a catholic, was initially assigned in 1829 (ex the Edward) versus the Ann WALKER (1460), aged 28, under a 7 year sentence, assigned to George Druitt at Mt Druitt.
Silky, I leave it to you to follow up further to confirm/eliminate/validate any of the above. The NSW SRO’s records seem to be a logical starting point. Afterall, that’s where the 1839 inquest information leads back to.
ADD
I have received a further phone call, and that caller suggested "Derwick" may well be "Butterwick" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durham_County,_New_South_Wales and to try around Dunn's Creek :)
Cheers, JM
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"Ann BINDER" Could also be Ann BIDNER A family of long standing in the area. Butterwick is abt the proverbial stones throw from my place.
Neil
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Good point Neil, could well be !
Silky,
Baptised 1 May 1830, Mary DALY, daughter of Thomas DALY and Ann WALKER, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, with sponsors John McLOUGHLAN and Rosa McCORMICK.
Was this a sister to Sarah? What information do you have for this lass, or for her sponsors?
Have you considered that Sarah may have been raised by HER sponsors?
Here’s an Ann DALEY and 3 children departing Horbart Town (VDL/Tasmania) bound for Sydney in September 1838 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4162574 HT Courier 21 Sept 1838 .... perhaps that's the lass who was murdered 21 July 1839?
Cheers, JM
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The NSW State Library has film of many of the Early Church Records. The NSW BDM does NOT have the original handwritten versions, and their website confirms that. “1788 – 1855 …….. Today, our transcriptions are computer format as we don’t hold original handwritten versions of church records” http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html
On Baptism Sarah when born 29th sept 1831 date of ceremony 29th oct 1832
father Thomas Daley Mother Anne Walker abode Derwick Grove via Maitland .
sponsors Christopher Daley and Bridget Ryan.
So, who is Christopher DALEY & have you researched him ?
From NSW BDM Early Church Records we can see Sarah’s baptism was transmitted a number of times.
Sarah DALEY, Thomas and Anne, Vol 125, line 2293, 1831 (“e” in Daley and in Anne)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann, Vol 127, line 2261, 1831 (no “e’” in Daly or Ann)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann W, vol 129, line 44, 1831 (no ‘”e” in Daly or Ann, but Ann has a middle name starting with W) I would suspect that Vol 129, line 44 may be the initial record, and the others were transmissions stemming from that.
Hi there,
NSW BDM online index has the baptism of Thomas and Ann/e as parents to Mary DALY/DALEY indexed FOUR times, suggesting to me that her baptism ceremony was outside of Sydney, and the record needed to be transmitted through from the original parish register to the Sydney Diocese register.
Mary DALY, baptism 1830, parents as Thomas and Anne in Volume 125 and line 1580 and line 1880
Mary DALEY, baptism 1830, parents as Thomas and Ann, in Volume 127, line 1465 and vol 128, line 1490.
Each of those Early Church Records noted above may have slightly different information detailed on them, and perhaps one of those pieces of information may include the name of the ship of arrival for one or both of the parents of that lass. Same with Sarah DALEY’s baptismal record, which I mentioned earlier and quote in this post.
So perhaps while silky is looking up the 1839 burial record at the library, she may also consider checking if the library holds the film images of the baptisms of both Sarah and Mary …..
Cheers, JM
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just as an aside on Majm's post, there is one death of a Charles DALEY parents Christopher DALEY and Mother Bridget at Condobolin 1907. No Birth for him and no marriage for the above parents so may not be connected, but interesting nonetheless.
Neil ;)
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Well found Neil :) Condo :) now that's on the Lachlan, my old stamping ground :)
Honora DALY, Hunter River
November 1828,
Honora Daly, age 40, Catholic, arrived per Elizabeth 1817, 7 years, Free, Dairywoman, householder Honora Daly, residence Island, in the district of Hunter River
Catherine Daly, age 8, Catholic, born in Colony, in the household of Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
Betsy Daly, age 4, Catholic born in Colony, in the household of Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
Thomas Leonard, age 24, Catholic per Earl St Vincent 1820, 7 years, Free, labourer to Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
John O’Neil, 60 Catholic per Brampton 1823, 7 years, Govt servant, stockkeeper to H Daly, Island, Hunter River.
NSW 1841 Census, Honora DALY with 13 others at Williams River
Catherine DALY
February 1822
Catherine Daly, daughter of Peter Daly and Honora McHue, baptised 21 Feb 1822, Windsor NSW, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, Sponsor Michael O’BRIEN and Maria GRAHAM
Betsy DALY
Sept 1823 Elizabeth DALEY, aged 4, born in the colony, residence Richmond NSW, daughter of P DALEY
April 1826 Elizabeth DALY daughter of Peter Daly and Honora McHue, baptised 6 April 1926, Richmond NSW, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic Sydney, sponsors Owen TIERNY and Bridget CUFFE
Peter DALY
June 1821
Peter Daly and Honora McHughes married 19 June 1821 registered St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, Witnesses Ellen KIRK and Kitty KIRK
June 1829
Peter DALEY, Free, Roman Catholic, of William’s Reach NSW buried 5 June 1829, registered Christ Church, C of E, Newcastle. Arrived per Surry (2)
NB Col Sec papers 1788-1825 has Peter DALEY seeking permission to marry 9 June 1821 in the Roman Catholic Church, at Parramatta.
Dec 1816 Peter DAWLEY 59, born Kerry Ireland,
Sept 1822 Peter DALEY per Surry, at Windsor NSW to Colonel O’Connell
Sept 1823 Peter DAWLEY, per Surry 1816, at Windsor to James King
Nov 1828 Peter DALEY, per Surrey 2, 1816, age 64, Catholic, Govt Servant, Labourer, household of James King, on farm at Richmond
Mary DALEY
Nov 1828, Mary DALEY,age 10, born in the Colony, house of Peter DALEY, Richmond
Re the burial for Peter DALEY 5 June 1829. You can see the image of the register via the links for Christ Church as per RChat’s NSW Resources Board. The Church of England register reads
No 92Y
Peter DALEY,
Williams Reach
5 June (1829)
Unknown age,
Surry, Free
A Catholic.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465674175/in/set-72157605008173551
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.msg2445941#msg2445941
May I please mention that it is not unusual to find baptisms, burials, and marriages that are NOT Church of England ceremonies, registered in Church of England parish registers in New South Wales during the penal era. There was, afterall, a general order requiring clergy of all denominations to transmit details of these events to the NSW Chaplains.
http://www.bda-online.org.au/ (Search the indexes for free.)
Cheers, JM
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NSW 1828 Census for Peter DALEY also includes
Ann DALEY, 5 years, born in the colony, so another possibility.
Nov 1828 Peter DALEY, per Surrey 2, 1816, age 64, Catholic, Govt Servant, Labourer, household of James King, on farm at Richmond
Add NSW BDM online index has 1823 baptism for Ann DALEY, daughter of Peter and Honora, as Vol 127, line 403
further ADD
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18698813 Maitland Mercury 28 Jan 1865
DEATH
At Brookfield, on the morning of the 17th, by the upsetting of a cart, Mrs. Honora DALY, aged 87 years, deeply regretted by a large circle of friends.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18788050 Maitland Mercury 26 Sept 1874
Letters of Administration Deceased Estate of Honora DALY, late of Brookfield, Williams River, widow, intestate to Catherine SEYMOUR, of Wallsend, one of the next of kin of the deceased.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137947181 Dungog Chronicle 24 Sept 1901
Letters of Administration Deceased Estate of Honora DALY, late of Brookfield, Williams River, left unadministered, to Mary LULLIAM a daughter of the deceased.
Cheers, JM
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Thank you Neil and MJ
okay this is what I have found I was trying to put someone that knew Sarah in later years at Erina Gosford and found by accident that the witnesses on Sarahs marriage Samuel Best and Maria had their first baby at Maitland 1842 now Sarah was about 11 yrs then, could they have taken her back as a servant to Gosford as their next baby was born 1844 Erina They also married at Erina as did Sarah .Could that be the answer you gave me the idea to look for the witnesses as her guardians
maybe?
silky
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Hi Silky,
You could well be on the right track there. Of course, I have yet to find any newspaper cutting confirming that the 8 year old witness was named Sarah. Perhaps the child's name was not noted by the newspaper reporters, or perhaps I am not looking in the right places.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Mj
I will look for it and tell you the page
silky
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Hi Mj
Sarah daley in search...its page 2... 6th nov 1839 the very last article on page
Murder-Its -Causes .silky
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Hi
Just one other thing because Sarah and husband Edward were close to Samuel and Maria Best and both lived in Erina and Bellingen Sarahs son married Samuel and Marias Daughter later in years at Gosford where they lived George and Louisa Moulding.They are on my grandmothers marriage as witnesses .
silky
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Thanks Silky
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/32166178 The Sydney Monitor and Commercial Advertiser 8 Nov 1839
and
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31723976 The Sydney Monitor and Commercial Advertiser 6 Nov 1839
The witness was a girl aged about nine years, daughter of the murdered woman:
“What’s your name?”
"Sarah Daly”
"Is your mother dead”
“Yes”
It must have been very confronting for Sarah to appear in court, and be asked those very direct questions. I think she was very brave.
Cheers, JM
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Hi mj
the poor child also losing her mother in that way .I did find another piece in trove explaining that you couldn't recognize her face as it was so badly beaten.
If that Sarah is my relative she had a sad life.But what joy it would have been when George married Louisa Best
Silky.
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hi all
found at last on ancestry 21st oct 1829
Anne Walker Edward 7 yr bond Bathurst .(in small writing hard to read)
Approving now that there are two Anne walkers by Edward .One of whom is already married and the supposition that the present was that individual of this application conveyed in my letter 31 aug
Granted 21st Oct1829
This means that the two were mixed up when application for marriage was applied for .
Which also means that my Anne Walker didn't marry James Fitzpatrick
It seems the age was also confused.
silky ;)
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Hi
My Anne Daley came out under maiden name Anne Walker I have she was found guilty with husband Thomas both stealing hats 1827.Anne arrived 1829 Edward sent to Patersons plains.Daughter Sarah born 1831 Derwick Grove via Maitland I presume its near Paterson or Morpeth.On records both copies Anne and Thomas are recorded as married to each other.Dont know which Mary Kelly as it doesn't say
Silky
The Anne Walker ex the Edward in 1829 is noted at the NSW SRO’s index “Applications to Marry”
James FITZPATRICK ex the A D Charles, aged 34, Life Sentence, on a Ticket of Leave
and
Anne WALKER, ex the Edward, aged 28, 7 yrs sentence, on a Bond. Date of Permission 21 Oct 1829, Rev’d J E Keane, Bathurst
Anne WALKER ex the Edward was issued with a TL (31/757) in the Paterson Plains district, born Tyrone County, a servant, tried Monaghan.
Her CF (341204) was issued 30 September 1834.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=68
The FITZPATRICK-WALKER marriage 16 Nov 1829, Kelso or Bathurst NSW, was C of E
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCY-W3N
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZJ-162
NSW BDM has the 1829 marriage indexed twice.
Thomas DALEY ex the Mangles was issued with a ToL in 1833. ??? as per NSW SRO Convict indexes.
Cheers, JM
hi all
found at last on ancestry 21st oct 1829
Anne Walker Edward 7 yr bond Bathurst .(in small writing hard to read)
Approving now that there are two Anne walkers by Edward .One of whom is already married and the supposition that the present was that individual of this application conveyed in my letter 31 aug
Granted 21st Oct1829
This means that the two were mixed up when application for marriage was applied for .
Which also means that my Anne Walker didn't marry James Fitzpatrick
It seems the age was also confused.
silky ;)
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I may be duplicating information previously noted, if so, I apologise
A Certificate of Freedom was issued 3 Oct 1839 in the name of Anne Daley ex the Southworth 1832
Cheers, JM
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hi
ticket of freedom 34/1204 ...30th Sept 1834 prisoners no. 29/102
name Anne Walker
ship Edward
master Gilbert
year 1829
Native place Tyrone
Trade or call Servant
Offence Larceny
Place of Trial Monahan
Date of trial 30th July 1827
Sentence 7 yrs
Year of Birth 1800
Height 5 ft 3 inches
Complexion Ruddy freckled
Hair dark Brown
Eyes Brown
General Marks Right arm Dislocated
this is my Anne Walker wife of Thomas Daley Her broken arm was reported when arriving also on her TOL 29th sept 1831....Allowed in the district of Patersons Plains .Thomas Daley was convicted on 30th July 1827 Monahan.Both from the county of Tyrone.
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Hi All who helped
finally Thomas Daley per Mangles was sent to Norfolk island 1838 spent 2 years there and sent to Port Arthur per Lady Franklin He continued to offend and spent most of his life in gaol spending time at Cockatoo island he finally absconds in 1853 from VDL the year daughter is married in Gosford NSW coincidence ?
I did find a Thomas Daley drowned swimming across a river at Evandale 1853 don't know if it was him.
silky
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Well sorted Silky.
JM
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thank you JM you sent me on another search for Rosa McCormack a witness to Mary Daley found Rose McCormacks TOL she was a convict at Patersons Plains so it looks as though she was a friend to Anne Walker/Daley and Sarah had a sister but nothing has ever been found of what happened to the children after mother was killed .Thomas being sent to Norfolk 1838 looks like Anne took another partner worst luck ....
silky
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Hi to Mcloughlan/McCormack researches
found that John and Rose married 1827 they are witnesses at baptism of Mary Daley1830 Patersons plains so this child Mary would be sister to my gg grandmother Sarah Daley .It is a fact that Priest would travel down to places where there was no Catholic churches as yet and then transfer them into St Marys baptism book Sydney. ;)
Cannot find anything on Mary Daley maybe fostered after death of mother. silky
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I may be duplicating some information, but it is a very long thread, and I think the following is about Rosa, and perhaps best kept together. (I have a BOWMAN connection from that era).
A transcription of a baptism registered in the parish registers of the St Marys Cathedral, Sydney:
Mary, daughter of Thomas DALY and Ann WALKER baptised 1 May 1830.
Sponsors John McLOUGHLAN and Rosa McCORMICK.
See the Early Church Records of NSW BDM for 1830, at both Volume 127, line 1465 and Volume 128, line 1490. (likely that one is a transmitted record of the original parish register, as that was a requirement of the NSW governor’s administrative practices of that era).
Re Rosa McCORMACK….
1827 February
Rose McCORMACK, 23, a Cotton mill washer, arrived 4 Feb 1827 on the Brothers, under a seven year sentence
1828 NSW Census
Rose McCORMICK, 25, Catholic, wife of Jno McLACHLAN, arrived Brothers 1, assigned as Government Servant, in the household of James BOWMAN, in the district of Patricks Plains.
1829
Rose McCORMACK, Ticket of Leave 29/0827
Allowed to remain in the district of Patricks Plains
Tried at Antrim, arrived per Brothers in 1827. See reel 912 at NSW State Records.
11 June 1827, marriage by Banns, with consent of the Governor (bride and broom both noted as Prisoners of the Crown).
John McGLOGLIN, bachelor, of Patricks Plains, and Rose McCORMACK, spinster,
Marriage registered at Church Church C of E, Newcastle. Rev. G A Middleton. Witnesses, Denis FLANERY, of Newcastle, Constable and Letitia WARDLE of Newcastle.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2466468328/in/album-72157605008173551/
That should be a live link to the actual image of the record of that marriage in the parish register. (entry No. 17)
JM
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Hi JM
so its not Patersons Plains but Patrick plains where Rosa was sent.?Well that maybe not our Mary Daley have tried to get a connection between my Daleys and Rosa
silky