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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: JennyMarieGradwell on Sunday 17 August 14 17:51 BST (UK)
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I've finally met my match where census deciphering is concerned! This census extract is from Monmouthshire from 1881 and Richard Mahony is my Great Grandfather.
The column headings are Name, Relation to Head, Condition as to Marriage, Age last birthday, Occupation and Where Born.
I'm having particular trouble with the place names on the right and any help is much appreciated :)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3875/14761573127_7b886edb8a_o.png
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Hi
I'm having particular trouble with the place names on the right
Richard was b Ireland - County Cork but I can't make out whether the next word is Ireland or a district in Cork
Tredegar Monmouthshire and Dowlais Glamorgan are the other birthplaces
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County Cork Ireland
Tredegar Monmouthshire
ditto
Dowlais Glamorgan
ditto
Tredegar Monmouthshire
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My opinion is that is does say Ireland after County Cork, but could we please see another scan with the whole word without its top chopped off :). And if there is another capital I on the page..
Josey
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Thank you all! And sorry, a better scan here :)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5558/14945379031_78abda4cc7_o.png
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I just figured out that Mary at the bottom is Sarah's sister, as she's labelled 'sister in law' and born in the same place as Mary. I can't figure out her surname though, which is annoying as it's likely to be Mary's surname too!
Any ideas? It looks a bit like Sheehan, maybe?
Thanks! :)
ETA. In 1891 they have a 'John Leehan' from Wales boarding with them so I think that's what it might be (or is meant to be!)...
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Take a look at this 1871
RG10; Piece: 5323; Folio: 39; Page: 6
72 No 1 Row [back] Sirhowy
John Sheen 38 iron founder b Cork, Ireland
Elizabeth Sheen 40 b Radnorshire, Presteigne
Sarah Taylor 18 stepdaughter
Thomas Taylor 15 stepson
Ellen Taylor 10 stepdaughter
Elizabeth Sheen 4 daughter
Mary Sheen 2 daughter
all children born Monmouth, Sirhowy
and this marriage
Jun 1874
Mahoney Richard Crickhowell 11b 201
Charles Sarah Crickhowell 11b 201
Nuth Elijah Crickhowell 11b 201
Taylor Sarah Crickhowell 11b 201
Maybe Richard Mahoney married Sarah Taylor & she was half sister to Mary Sheen.....this could be researched further. I'll have a look on freebmd & try to find [1] marriage of John Sheen to Elizabeth Taylor ca 1865 [2] marriage of an Elizabeth to a Mr Taylor ca 1850 [3] death of MrTaylor ca 1861 - 1865 & other sites for [4] baptism of Sarah Taylor ca 1853 to check father's name [5] 1861 census with ELizabeth, Sarah, Thomas Taylors & possibly Ellen just born.
Josey
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Thanks Josey I spotted this too. It's a coincidence because Richard (Sarah's husband) is also from Cork.
My heart sank when I saw there were two Sarahs on the marriage record because I wasn't sure which it was, but since they later have a John Leehan/Sheen boarding with them it is possible.
Starts to get a bit mind boggling at this stage! :)
ETA: I think that must be right - Mary's surname is hard to make out on this census but I think it must be Mary Sheen, sister in law. The age/DOB matches from the older census (1871) when they lived with parents John and Elizabeth Sheen, and the newer census (1881) where Mary is living with the married Richard Mahoney and Sarah Mahoney (née Taylor).
But it would be interesting to know what happened to the original Father!
Thanks again, as always everyone is really helpful :)
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I did a little amateur digging around the areas you suggested and came up with this.... For interest rather than anything else! My investigations are ongoing, of course :)
This is a lot more tricky without parish records :-[
[1] Search for marriage of John Sheen to Elizabeth Taylor ca 1865
I can't seem to find John Sheen & Elizabeth Taylor's marriage at all...
Sorry, we found no matches.
Search for
Type: Marriages Surname: Sheen First name(s): John
Start date: Mar 1855 End date: Dec 1870 Spouse/Mother's surname: Taylor
Spouse's first name(s): E
[2] Search for Possible marriages of an Elizabeth to a Mr Taylor
June 1851. John Taylor, Monmouth. (vol 26, p140)
Records on Page:
Henry Charles
Richard Davies
Eliza Evans
Esau Organ
Elizabeth Richards (vol 26 p140)
Elizabeth Rosser (vol 26 p140)
John Taylor
Mary Ann Williams
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/14933795176_e13a6cfa80_c.jpg)
Dec 1852. William Taylor, Monmouth. (Monmouth vol11a p59)
Records on Page:
Elizabeth Hopkins (Monmouth vol 11a p59)
William Jones
Caroline Reynolds
William Taylor
William Williams
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5563/14956800035_f383688f24_c.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14770116589_483baa6af9_c.jpg)
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Well found - keep them on a back burner!! I think Mary's surname on 1881 census is spelled Sheehan but this need only be a phonetic interpretation by the enumerator.
Ellen aged 10 in 1871 is not John Sheen's which is why I thought Elizabeth must have remarried after 1860 & before 1866-7 [birth of Elizabeth]. Who knows - she may have been married & widowed a 2nd time before she married John Sheen!! Ellen's birth certificate should give you Elizabeth's maiden name; Bedwellty [created 1861 see http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/bedwelty.html is the registration district that covered Sirhowy.
But this looks a possible from freebmd for Elizabeth [John & Elizabeth's]
Name: Elizabeth Sheen
Registration Year: 1866
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Bedwellty
Volume: 11a
Page: 115
This COULD be Sarah's birth [before 1861 when Bedwellty was created]
Births Mar 1852
TAYLOR Sarah Crickhowell 11b 127
It may be a few certificates will be required - Richard & Sarah's as a start to check her name WAS Taylor, then a birth certificate or 2 to find Elizabeth's maiden name.
I have looked in the 1861 census for Elizabeths born Presteigne 1838 - 1842 but all seems to still be with the same husbands in 1871.
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Thank you Josey! I have just ordered from Powys Council a birth certificate and marriage certificate for (I hope) Sarah Taylor.
Through searching through this forum I picked up that the family (Richard, Sarah & children) lived at 5 Morgan Row along with the whole Sheehea (?) clan. This surname might be wrong because the handwriting on this census is terrible! I have screen captured the original and Ancestry.co.uk interpretation but I think it must be wrong. i.e. I think 'County Cary' is actually 'County Cork'.
Mary Sheehea is listed as 'sister in law' along with the Mahoneys, but I know from the1871 census that Mary Sheen is Sarah's step-sister and has the same year of birth as Mary Sheehea.
Maybe Mary Sheehea should actually be listed as Mary Sheen? It seems like such a coincidence otherwise, but I know that's possible :-[
Any ideas on some of the other more messy words? ???
Full version is here: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5562/14959005822_9e120b555b_o.jpg
Thank you :)
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You have to remember that the enumerator copied from a householder's return, or wrote verbatim what they heard. You are talking about a [preumably] Welsh enumerator & Irish residents, plenty of scope for misinterpretation & mis-hearing. And for instance this enumerator has spelled Ireland phonetically 'I-erland' in every instance. Also ancestry are notorious for mistrancriptions.
I am sure that 'Sheehan' & 'Sheen' sound the same, so the family must have settled on the latter spelling. There is an Irish surname 'Shea' but as far as I know it is pronounced 'Shay'. As for the County Cary - yes, that's what it looks like, only other suggestion is County Clare.
Relationship names were less strict in those days, step relations were often referred to as 'in-laws'. We will all be very interested to see the details from the certificates when they arrive!!