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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Roy G on Friday 08 August 14 08:17 BST (UK)
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Sorry about this, but its one of those complex crazy requests for info about an individual (now deceased) that seems to have moved about a bit. I have opted to place the details on the London Rootschat page, but it could equally be Kent (Greenwich), Essex, Germany, or the USA. So here goes.
My friend's grandfather was Fritz Karl Reinhardt Oehlke, husband of Laura Grace Rogers born Camberwell 1894. They married in Rochford Essex very late 1914 or first quarter of 1915 (FreeBMD) perhaps in order to legitimize the birth of their now deceased daughter Wilhemena (b Lambeth 1914). A family story suggests that as Fritz was a German citizen in his early 20s, in 1915 he was in Essex on route to an internment camp in Ireland. I suspect this line of enquiry, for it may have just been presented in that way to explain his subsequent disappearance. Mother and daughter are known to have remained in the UK after the war, but nothing else is known of Fritz.
So my quest is to find out more about him, where he came from, where he went, and if there was any family tie with the only other UK Oehlkes from Germany who lived nearby in Greenwich?
Subsequent sightings on indexes to paying websites I do not subscribe to (so have not read) possibly place Fritz in the USA (March 1915 Chicago Tribune, and April 1915 Daily Review Illinois) so it crosses my mind that he was actually from a German family who had settled in the USA some years earlier and soon after his marriage, Fritz returned to America without his new wife and child.
Are there any helpful Rootschatters out there that could dig a little deeper for me?
Regards and thanks in advance. Roy G
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As far as I know, there were no Internment Camps in Ireland in WW1?
Possibly the Isle of Man?
Have you considered that he may have returned to Germany after the war?
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Thanks for the Irish Info, the IOM is a possibility, as is a return to to Germany by an obscure route.
I was however, hoping that someone would do a quick look up on the USA newspapers for me. It seems rather unusual that reports about an otherwise mundane German citizen should be newsworthy in the USA unless there was also a family or work connection over there.
I do not have a subscription that enables me to look up the entire texts of what may be a report on his marriage in The Daily Review, Decatur, Illinois, dated Apr 9 1915 (My Heritage), or a report that appears on page 3 of the Chicago Tribune dated 16 March 1915 (Fold3.com) that might be describing him as a German Embassy Chauffeur.
Roy G
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as is a return to to Germany by an obscure route.
Not sure what you mean by this?
There are no Oehlke (or Ohlke) passengers on passenger list to USA, 1890-1960.
And no passenger lists for travel from UK to Europe at all!
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What occupation does he give on the marriage cert? (That might give a clue as to whether he was likely to bve travelling)
And who is his father? ( then you can investigate his wider family and see if it ties up with the ones in Greenwich or not)
The marriage was 1915 -
Jan/Feb/Mar 1915
Rochford
Ref 4a. 1030
Laura G Rogers / Fritz K R Oehike
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Sorry KG the word "Obscure" was used thinking you meant during the war and not "after it" as you wrote, which I discovered after a second reading.
My friend is awaiting copy marriage certs Lizdb, I'll know more then. I also have to ask her a lot more questions, for I feel there is more to my understanding the story than she has given me so far
Still bugged by the American newspaper reports though! WHY?
Roy G
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The item in the Daily Review, Decatur, Illinois on 9 April 1915 is actually just a 'news' item.
Headed 'ENGLISH GIRLS WED GERMAN PRISONERS
London - Four German prisoners in the transport Royal Edward at Southend taken ashore under escort and married at the registry office to 4 Englishwomen to whom they had been engaged'.
One of the couples is:
Fritz Karl Reinhold Oehlke, chauffeur, 21 and Laura Grace Rogers of 321 Lancaster St., Southwark
The case of the engaged girls aroused the pity of a philanthropic worker and as a result of her negotiations the authorities gave permission for the weddings to be celebrated at Southend registry.
Afterwards the grooms returned to the transports and the brides went their way.
Annette
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They married in Rochford Essex very late 1914 or first quarter of 1915 (FreeBMD) perhaps in order to legitimize the birth of their now deceased daughter Wilhemena (b Lambeth 1914).
Im not spotting the birth in the indexes for this child. Have you got her birth cert? Is Fritz named as the father?
If he is the father, then he could not have been in custody (or if he was, he sneaked out, or was not actually behind bars but was working locally in Lambeth area or wherever Laura was living, probably under curfew) at the time of her conception. Alternatively, the baby could have been someone elses and Laura was a single parent before the whorlwind romance with Fritz, but either way she must have met him somewhere.
Intriguing.
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Laura Grace Rogers died 1981 Worthing?
(according to Ancestry trees, and FreeBMD?!)
And Wilhelmina married under the Oehlke surname in 1936, and died in 2004.
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Thanks for the explanation of the American end, that seems to make much more sense.
Re
I'm not spotting the birth in the indexes for this child. ........ If he is the father, then he could not have been in custody
See FreeBMD for
June quarter of 1914 listing the birth of Oehlke Wilhelmine G E, mother Rogers, Lambeth ref 1d 601
Conception at least was well before war was officially declared, only the marriage was after it.
Probably a look at camp records for the Isle of Man might reveal something. Couldn't find him on the latest release of Red Cross POW/Internee cards, the only person of that name seemed to be an 8 year old child.
Roy G
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Thanks, dont know how I missed that birth!
So he was over here before the war, not as a result of the war.
There are several of that surname around it seems. In Manchester and Deptford mainly.
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I didn't pick up on the Manchester entries, so thanks for that.
From the info sent, I have now been looking into the Royal Edward, then a ship for internees, some paying a supplement for first class cabins (how British). It became a troopship and was torpedoed in the Med later in 1915. It would now help to know if there was a ships log showing were she deposited her cargo of internees before becoming a troopship.
Roy G
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Found this via Google:
STATIONED OFF SOUTHEND
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ROYAL EDWARD AS INTERNMENT SHIP.
When Mr. John B. Jackson, of the American Embassy in Berlin, visited this country to report on the treatment of German prisoners of war in England, he inspected the Royal Edward, which was then being used as an internment vessel. In his report he stated as follows:- Of the ships, the Royal Edward was obviously the show ship. On board, the interned were separated into three classes dependent to a certain extent upon their social standing, but to a greater extent to their ability to meet extra expenses. prisoners were permitted to avail themselves of the regular first-class cabins upon payment in advance of from 5s. to 2s. 6d. a week, according to the number of persons occupying a cabin. At that time the ship was lying off Southend, and Mr. Jackson reported that all the prisoners were locked below decks at night, which caused some nervousness among them owing to the apprehension of danger from Zeppelins.
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Also a book on Google books: http://www.rootschat.com/links/019az/
"The Internment of Aliens in Twentieth Century Britain" edited by David Cesarani, Tony Kushner
which states that the Royal Edward remained in operation as an internee ship until the end of May 1915, when many of the prisoners moved to the camp at Alexandra Palace.
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Found the same article about the cabins and zeppelins, but the Aly Pally bit is further info. Interesting, I would have expected the WW1 internees to be accommodated somewhere more remote.
Found 2 books on the Internet about Ally Pally.
Harris, Janet. Alexandra Palace: a hidden history. Tempus Publishing Ltd., 2005. 128 pages. ISBN: 0752436368 And, German Prisoners in Britain 1916. Lots of pictures in the last one so should keep me busy.
Roy G
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Do you already have info on Laura ?
Jennifer
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Yes, Laura was my friend's grandma, and she is quite informed on her, but tracing Fritz her grandfather's movements has been a bit more tricky. I will await the copy marriage cert, and then get into it in more detail.
Thanks again. Roy G
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Hi, Roy.
A bit late, sorry.
One of the couples married at Southend was:
Marriages March 1915 Rochford 4a 1031
Wilhelm Zunder, 22, waiter, and Winifred Bollingford, 21, no occupation, of Hayes-road, Clacton on-Sea.
I looked on the Anglo German Family History Society site & found the Zunder name was being researched. I was able to give the member info. on his grandfather, Wilhelm Zunder.
The site may be of interest to you (if you don't know it).
http://www.agfhs.org/site/index.php
Kath.
researching the Royal Edward: www.royaledward.net
I have yet to have a page on her as a prison ship.