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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ClementsM on Thursday 07 August 14 13:46 BST (UK)
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I ordered the death certificate of my great grandfather via the GRO and requested the death cert for the name James Holland which was his name.
When i received the death certificate back from the GRO the name of the deceased was stated as “James Holman otherwise Holland”
The handwriting on the certificate is quite difficult to read so the name is either Holman or Hollman – nevertheless I am trying to understand why he would have been known as Holman otherwise Holland?
Can somebody help me solve this puzzle?
Thank you,
Marcus
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Hello,
At some point in his life he has obviously used or was given the other surname. It could be for any number of reasons. Do you have any other link to the name Hollman ?
Would you like to give the details of James and we could try and find a reason.
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A couple of common reasons are that he was illegitimate & was baptised under his mother's name but known under his father's.
He was baptised under one name but his mother remarried & was known under the new husband's name.
Ditto above & we'll see what we can find.
jim
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Does he consistently appear under the same name in censuses?
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Thanks for the quick reply.
I am happy to give as much detail as i have to ascertain why this would be – what do you need?
I do not have his birth cert yet as I need to know what surname to request via GRO and this can either be Holland / Holman / Hollman or Hollands with an S on the end.
I have the birth cert of his daughter and his surname is spelt Hollands with an S on the end.
I have not located any other connections within my family to the name Holman yet
Thanks,
Marcus
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The info we need to help you is relevant dates & places & other details so that we can identify him in available records.
Picking up on another of your threads, is he James Holland d Romford Dec qtr 1918 aged 37, who may have fathered one or more children (as Holland or Hollands) with Emily Butti?
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=657068.msg5029953#msg5029953
I see that the death is indexed under both Holman and Holland.
What occupation was recorded for him on the death certificate?
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Marcus have you got the year your relative died, how old was he and where about in the
World he was living. That will help people to try an find him on the census etc. Thanks
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Yes it's the same James "Holland" as my previous thread. Died Romford Dec qtr 1918 aged 37.
James was a labourer at a sugar works. Now the main sugar works in that area around the early 1900's was Tate and Lyle. I had thought that he had died during the Silvertown Explosion. If you Google the Silvertown explosion you will see what I mean however the year he died was slightly later but then I thought he may have died later as an indirect result of the explosion but I cannot obtain any details of this.
The bigger block for me is his surname.
Thanks all for your help
Marcus
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Marcus ... what was the address on the death cert, and the cause of death ?
As yet I've no record of James H***** as a sugarhouse labourer at either Lyles or Tates (they did not amalgamate until 1921), and no employee lists have survived for either refinery. The death cert is probably the only surviving record of his employment there.
Neither of the books recording the histories of the companies mention fatalities as a result of the Silvertown Explosion. Damage at the refineries was minimal considering their proximity to Brunner Mond, and knowing what was manufactured there most workers left the refineries sharpish as soon as the fire began.
Considering the info in your previous thread along with the 1911 census, have you followed up on James John Holland born Croydon 1882 ? (The other James Francis Hollands Croydon 1881 married Maud Hart 1906).
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Hi there,
Thanks for your help with this.
I have attached his death certificate where it states his occupation as a sugar factory labourer and the certificate also states his cause of death and his home address at the time.
It’s odd that no books/records mention fatalities when I have conducted a simple Google search and located the attached document – granted this is not an official document but surely there must be an element of truth to this?
I’m also sure i have also come across a photograph of a headstone which was erected commemorating the deceased of the explosion.
No i have not followed up on the names you have suggested but thanks for the suggestion – much appreciated.
Thanks again
Marcus
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Yes, of course there was serious loss of life, however the books do not record any losses of refinery employees.
Thank you for the list ... I'll check it against my database.
(No death cert attached :) )
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Could Holman (or various spellings) have been either a German or Jewish name, which was anglicised to Holland? Do you know where his family originated?
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Sorry re-attached the death cert.
Oh I see what you are saying – Holman could be the equivalent to Holland but from foreign shores.
I literally know nothing about James’ roots however could be Jewish or German -
I am hoping when i know what correct surname to order via GRO this could shed some light on the matter.
Thanks
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Families with German sounding names (like our Royals!) anglicised them in WW1 to avoid anti-german sentiment.
Many Jewish immigrants also anglicised their surnames.
In either case I think people used to choose a name which sounded English whilst at the same time not sounding too far removed from their original name, so Holman could easily have = Holland.
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For some unknown reason the death cert wont open where did he die although it says Romford district up to 1939 this district covered up to Barking
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For some unknown reason the death cert wont open where did he die although it says Romford district up to 1939 this district covered up to Barking
Get this message;
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When and where he died
17th Nov 1918
1 Hunter Road
Name and surname
James Holman otherwise Holland
Age
37 years
Occupation
Sugar Factory Labourer
Cause of death
1)influenza
2)pneumonia
E.Holman Present at the
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Yes Stanmapstone that's what I got, thanks ClementsM I live in the area and was trying to find out where he is buried to see if there was a headstone that could throw some light in the problem
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Informant: E Holman. Looks worth investigating.
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Thanks avm228
That would be Emily Holman nee Butti (James') wife.
It's information on James' surname and obtaining the correct birth cert for him is the challenge.
Any advice on how I obtain the right birth cert? Birth date/year/location etc?
Thanks
Marcus
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Did Emily and James actually marry and if so, where and when?
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Many Germans worked in the Sugar trade.
Jennifer
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All online trees give him as James Holman reg. Dartford 2a457 1881
Jennifer
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Given an influenza death in 1918, sounds like a spanish flu victim to me