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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Stephanie Keller on Monday 04 August 14 19:41 BST (UK)
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Same old Immigration story of foreign name too hard for Americans to pronounce.
Great grandfather listed in census under 2 different names between 1900 and 1930.
Neither are Italian name but perhaps some version. Oldest document I have is a 1897
marriage license and the name is slaughtered in addition to a clerks terrible handwriting.
Im at a loss as to how to proceed.
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Hi Stephanie,
Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
There were many reasons names got 'munted'. Illiteracy was one, especially combined with foreign accents being difficult to 'hear', and resulting best-guess phonetic renderings by American record keepers/clerks/Priests etc. Many immigrants also chose to 'anglicise' their names themselves, sometimes trying a few versions before they settled on, or were steered towards, one.
Here are some thoughts that might help get things rolling for you:
Post a snip or two of the 1897 document, showing the name as it's written and / or signed and enough if the same handwriting in other parts of the documents to be able to compare. You can't post the whole document, but can post parts of it. Also make sure snips you post are of a high res. This is the board where that generally happens, post a new topic :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=425.0
Explain there that the Document you have is from the US, too; even though it's all English, the 'flavour' of a document can help when working out handwriting .
Post the url link to that new topic, onto this topic and then we can follow (or have a go).
Explain to us here on this topic, more about your research and current obstacles:
What is the name, as it is used today by descendants?
What was the name in each Census 1900 to 1930? Right or wrong, are the Census' clear? Have you got him in all possible census he could be in?
Are you trying to now move back and finding the name variations a stumbling block? Perhaps you could type up (not copy-paste!) and post all the Census you have. Post all the details as they will answer a lot of the questions we as 'helpers' would initially want to know, such as:
Was he able to read and write?
Was he born outside of the US, if so where and when did he arrive in the US?
If born in the US, where? and where were his parents born?
Cheers
AMBLY
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;D
Ahh, I see you're a step ahead !
Deciphering topic here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=694734.0
Cheers
AMBLY
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Name is a huge stumbling block. Name is 1900 Walker Co Alabama Census was Save Concord, name is 1920 and 1930 was Joe Sefeno which was given by coal miners. Grandpa could not read or write, barely spoke English even in his later years. Born in Torino Italy, was in an orphanage until age 16 when a grape farmer retrieved him to work his farm. He left the farmer when the man never gave him part of the farm as promised and somehow got a free ride on a boat leaving Havre around Jan 1892. Did not obtain naturalization until shortly before death. Named boat at that time as Bartania or that is the spelling recorded taker used. I also found one named Le Bartagne.
Only additional info I know is that he entered NY, lived in Spring Valley Ill, before moving to Alabama to work in the coal mines. At that time he married Parilee Smith and had a family, many children (James, Maggie, Mary, Frank, Fred, Elzo, Grady). After his children were born, he sent money to Italy to help another man (17) immigrate. Luigi Davito Gara came and married my Aunt Maggie.
It was my hopes that the Davito Gara family could lead me to my grandfather, but no luck so far.
Attached is all areas from marriage license where name appears, Census are all clear, and are as I have listed above.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions, advice, Ideas, or time. I am so frustrated but do not want this to be the end.
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Hi Stephanie,
Welcome to Rootschat!
Just a thought but seeing you mention that he called himself Joe Sefeno in 1920 & 1930, a sudden idea occurred to me. What if the Concord/Concordia part of his name on the marriage licence, although written as one name was actually two names? By this I mean that although he is down as Concord/Concordia Stephens/Stephenson on the licence, what if it was actually something De or Di Stefano/Stephano.
There are on the New York Passenger Lists on familysearch, people with those surnames arriving from 1892 onwards.
Now if we could only work out what the Concor(d) bit could be!
Hope that this both makes some sense and also helps! ;D
Kind regards
David
PS, another thought just popped into my head re the 1900 name of Save Concord as his name. What if Save Concord/Concord/Concordia Stephens/Stephenson was actually.... Salvatore Di/De Stefano/Stephano!
If you look at it like this - Save Concor then D/dia followed by Stephens/Stephenson.
What do you think?
David
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Hi Stephanie,
Welcome to Rootschat!
Just a thought but seeing you mention that he called himself Joe Sefeno in 1920 & 1930, a sudden idea occurred to me. What if the Concord/Concordia part of his name on the marriage licence, although written as one name was actually two names? By this I mean that although he is down as Concord/Concordia Stephens/Stephenson on the licence, what if it was actually something De or Di Stefano/Stephano.
There are on the New York Passenger Lists on familysearch, people with those surnames arriving from 1892 onwards.
Now if we could only work out what the Concor(d) bit could be!
Hope that this both makes some sense and also helps! ;D
Kind regards
David
So many possibilities. If one of you help me solve this family mystery you will be our family Hero for Life! It has about driven me crazy. I've been searching for almost 15 years. I have used Family Search, Ellis Island and Ancestry.com. There's a passenger that's a close fit called Serafino Concordia, but the departure is wrong. :( Crazy Crazy Crazy I tell ya.
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My humble opinion is that his name was Concordio (male form of Concordia) Stefeno. Think that whoever wrote out the marriage license wrote it as it sounded and with surname used 'ph' rather than 'f'.
Annette
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My humble opinion is that his name was Concordio (male form of Concordia) Stefeno. Think that whoever wrote out the marriage license wrote it as it sounded and with surname used 'ph' rather than 'f'.
Annette
So, again...what advice would you all give as where to turn next?
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Hi Stephanie,
I think this might be the right boat: SS La Bretagne - A wonderful ship.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bretagne_(paquebot) (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bretagne_(paquebot))
She had in 1907 a lot of Italians on board - would be great to have the same paperwork for 1892.
http://immigrantships.net/v6/1900v6/labretagne19070528_01.html (http://immigrantships.net/v6/1900v6/labretagne19070528_01.html)
Regards & good luck
Rudolf
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Quite honesty, I really don't know where you go from here.
You say he was brought up in an orphanage in Torino - did he ever speak of family, siblings? If not, it's quite possible that he was left at the orphanage as a baby and the orphanage named him. Even if that was able to be proved there would be nothing further that could be done with no known family line to follow.
Any answers must lie in Torino but cannot see online any families with the names he had. I suspect he was probably named by the orphanage.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Annette
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I wonder whether "Joe" was an American approximation of the "dio" sound at the end of Concordio?
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It might be worth emailing the archives/library in Turin to see if they have any records of orphanages; if nothing else, they may be able to point you in the right direction.
http://archiviodistatotorino.beniculturali.it/Site/index.php/en/home
Looking at this bit of the website http://archiviodistatotorino.beniculturali.it/work/elemdetot.php?uid=300903 it does seem that they have orphanage records from 1732 - 1950
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I see that "Serafino Concordia" arrived in the US - on the Britannia - in 1896:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KD4Q-L63
You say that he can be ruled out because the date is wrong, but as to the date presumably all that is known for certain is that he was in the US in time to marry in 1897?
He does not appear to have been consistent about his immigration date if as you say one version held that it was 1892. The census extracts available on Familysearch suggest later dates:
1910 census - immigrated "1900": https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MKW6-H44
1920 census - immigrated "1899": https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MXDY-CJ8
In my experience with immigrants to the US, there can also be discrepancies between "immigration" dates due to more than one trip having been made. Sometimes people went to and fro a bit before finally settling.
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It might be worth emailing the archives/library in Turin to see if they have any records of orphanages; if nothing else, they may be able to point you in the right direction.
http://archiviodistatotorino.beniculturali.it/Site/index.php/en/home
Looking at this bit of the website http://archiviodistatotorino.beniculturali.it/work/elemdetot.php?uid=300903 it does seem that they have orphanage records from 1732 - 1950
Thank you...I did email this morning asking about an orphan born in 1865 in Torino and living in orphanage until age 16 named Concordino Stefano or any variation likely...hoping to receive something. Only other idea is one of those people who speak to the dead???????