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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: debbiebozkurt on Monday 04 August 14 13:35 BST (UK)
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help me?
I have a marriage of a Margaret Ann Kelly 1922 to a James Weir in the Carlton district of Glasgow. They both marry from 111 Craythorn Street, Margaret Ann's age is 20 on the certificate. She states her father is Robert Kelly carter deceased and her mother Margaret Kelly nee Cameron. I have tried to trace Margaret Ann's parentage but I can only find a Margaret Ann with an Archibald Kelly, Soldier born 1902 but with a Mother Margaret Ann Cameron. I can find the Margaret Kelly born to Archibald on the 1911 census but can not trace one with a Robert and Margaret. I think Kelly maybe an Irish name but I am assuming since the mother was a Cameron that Margaret Ann was born in Scotland.
Can anyone help me trace Robert Kelly and Margaret Cameron - I have looked for a marriage and can not find it in any county, I have looked up a couple of Robert Kelly death pre 1922 and can't find the correct one. I have spent quite a bit of money on the Scottish Website and before I try more names I thought I would try and ask of anyone has any details of this family or even any ideas. I even entertained the idea that Archibald was called Robert but can not find a pre 1922 relevant death and Archibald was not a carter.
I have also tried the 1901 census in case her age was out on the marriage certificate by a couple of years but no joy. I have looked for a Robert & Margaret combination pre 1911 but none that seem to fit either from Robert's employment or the age of Margaret.
Any help with this couple gratefully received. The one thing I haven't yet done is check to see if she was born out of wedlock. Margaret Ann Weir nee Kelly lived a nice long life so I can not check her death certificate so see what her parentage was then other than ordering it at a high cost - and it might say the same thing.
Debbie
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Have you checked this one which was also in the Calton area - although the mans first name is Archibald rather than Robert - possibly he was known within the family as Robert
1897 KELLY ARCHIBALD CAMERON MARGARET CALTON (GLASGOW) GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0422
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I did find this marriage though not downloaded it. Archibald and Margaret do have a son called Robert - not sure if things got a bit muddled. I just found Archibald and Margaret on the 1901 census with their 2 year old son Robert. I have looked at Margaret Ann Senior death certificate from 1952 and it states she is married to Archibald Kelly not widowed and I have looked for a death of an Archibald Kelly from 1911 to 1922 and there is none and Margaret Ann jnr specifically states her father is deceased in 1922. I found an Archibald death in 1971 aged 92 which could possibly be the Archibald married to Margaret.
Thank you for your thoughts, it helped me pull a few things together in my mind - I am now wondering if they never married or perhaps Margaret was married to someone before and didn't marry under the surname Cameron!
Regards
Debbie
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If any of the children were born in Scotland their birth details should have the parents marriage details on them (from 1861 onwards) even if the marriage was outside Scotland.
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Hi
My problem is I can not identify Margaret Ann Kelly Birth Certificate, I have traced one which is the Archibald as the father and does state the marriage date. Margaret Ann did remarry but after the time you can look at the certificates on line and therefore it would cost about £12 and I may not get any further. It might be my only option.
Thanks
Debs
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Hi Debbie
What were the witnesses names to the 1922 marriage? What about children's names from Margaret Ann's first marriage to James Weir, were there any surnames used as middle names for their children? Do the names Robert and Margaret feature in the children's names?
Monica :)
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Hi There
One of the witness was Daniel Weir James' brother the other didn't seem related.
I am doing this research for a friends daughter who knows nothing about her father's family and unfortunately he was a late baby and most of his relatives had died before he reached adult hood so he knows nothing either. We do not know if there were any other children born to Margaret Ann Kelly and James Weir or if there were any other children born to the mysterious Robert Kelly and Margaret Cameron. So far it has cost me a fortune and I have got no where! I should just leave it alone and go onto something else but I hate a brick wall. ???
Regards
Debs
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We all hate brick walls, Debs, don't we :'(
How kind (obsessed :P ;)) of you to try to help here! You are not in Scotland are you? This period that you are in is you hard to research online as you are finding. Being in Scotland and able to visit a main genealogy centre would let you view more recent records economically.
Monica
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I have just found a death of a Robert Kelly in 1907 in Hutchestown occupation Van Driver (similar to Carter) who was married to an Agnes Cameron! Well this time the male seems correct but the Margaret has now been substituted for Agnes. But just found a marriage of a Robert Kelly to an Agnes Cameron in 1907 Grrrr! Thought I was there for a minute!
On the 1911 census there is a Margaret Kelly widow Hutchestown age 31 with 4 children; John age 10, Margaret age 9 and Dennis age 7. I wonder if Margaret was also known as Agnes and that although they didn't marry until 1907 they may have had children before then..... Think further nosing around and a few more pennies!
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We all hate brick walls, Debs, don't we :'(
How kind (obsessed :P ;)) of you to try to help here! You are not in Scotland are you? This period that you are in is you hard to research online as you are finding. Being in Scotland and able to visit a main genealogy centre would let you view more recent records economically.
Monica
Monica I am actually living on the Western Isles in Scotland which is really hard to do research from - very poor broadband speeds and no access to records except the local ones. What upsets me is the cost of looking up the records on-line in scotland there appears to be no subscription service which I prefer :)
Debs
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Debs, have you tried death searches for Margaret Ann's mother?
There is only one death showing (just from general SP searches) for a Margaret Ann Kelly/Cameron. She was born c. 1876, died post 1922 in the Glasgow area.
Monica
Added...Althought this might be the one married to Archibald that you found earlier, I know realise.
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Western Isles with a poor broadband.... :'(
Debs, it is the period you are in which is so tricky. 20th Century family records are always harder, gets easier as you know the further back you go in terms of much more available online records working back into the 19th Century (and possibly free too :D).
Monica
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Debs, have you tried death searches for Margaret Ann's mother?
There is only one death showing (just from general SP searches) for a Margaret Ann Kelly/Cameron. She was born c. 1876, died post 1922 in the Glasgow area.
Monica
Added...Althought this might be the one married to Archibald that you found earlier, I know realise.
The one married to Archibald didn't die until 1952 I have her death certificate - On Margaret Ann marriage she doesn't state her mother is dead though. Got 5 more credits left and that is me for a while can not spend anymore for tonight :)
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Have you tried checking for an illegitimate birth? There are at least two births showing for a Margaret Ann* Cameron between 1901-3, one of these in the Lanarkshire/Glasgow area.
Maybe for another day...with renewed credits.
Monica :)
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Hi Debs,
Did you get any luck with this. If not, I believe the families you mention are related to me.
I believe it is a mistake on the certificate and the parents names are Archibald Kelly and Margaret Cameron.
One of the witnesses at the marriage of James Weir and Margaret Ann Kelly was a Donaldina Macdonald of 76 Albert Street, Glasgow. I believe this could be the same Donaldina Macdonald who married a Robert Kelly the year before, when her address was 88 Albert Street, and her maiden name was used when a witness at the Weir wedding. On the marriage certificate of Robert Kelly and Donaldina Macdonald, his parents are given as Archibald Kelly and Margaret Cameron.
Hope this helps,
Robert Cameron
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I forgot to say in the above post that in 1921 Margaret Cameron, wife of Archibald Kelly, was also living in Claythorn Street, although at number 14.
Robert
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What upsets me is the cost of looking up the records on-line in scotland there appears to be no subscription service which I prefer :)
Wouldn't we all prefer a subscription service! I have not come across anywhere that offers images of original BMD certificates on a subscription basis.
Scotland's People, used correctly, is one of the cheapest online services in the world for accessing original historic birth, marriage and death certificates.
If you get your search right, you can instantly get a historic Scottish certificate for 6 credits, which works out at £1.40. Yes, that is one pound and forty pence.
Just be thankful that you are not trying to research in
England and Wales (every certificate £9.25 and you have to wait for it to arrive in the post)
New Zealand (every handwritten or typed printout NZ$20.40)
Queensland (every image AUS$20)
New South Wales (every certificate AUS$31)
Victoria (index search AUS$0.99 and every uncertified image AUS$21)
Tasmania (every certificate AUS$45.88)
South Australia (every standard certificate AUS$46.00 plus postage)
Northern Territory (every certificate AUS$43.00 plus postage)
Western Australia (every reduced fee certificate AUS$31)
So for the price of just one English or Welsh certificate you could instantly get six Scottish certificates, and still have some change left over.
For the cost of just one South Australian certificate, you could make 103 index searches (getting up to 1545 index entries in the process) or you could view 17 wrong certificates and then get your correct image instantly.
And I have been told there are some US states where you can only get a certificate at all if you can already prove that you are related to the person concerned.