RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Devilish on Friday 01 August 14 12:20 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
I've got a request, and slightly unsure if I had to post in the Lancs or Irish part (as it covers these two areas, and London as well.)
I've got this Thomas Duffy which I believe was born in 1826(abt) in Liverpool. (other siblings Mary, 1829, and Susan, 1832).
Now the parents given are Theresa Riley (b.1799-1877) i think, Dublin - but the trace goes cold and I don't know of any record of her birth) and Thomas Duffy - who I have absolutely nothing about either, and wondering if anyone knows anythign about either of them too.
Only other info I have is Theresa (Riley)'s death in 1877 in a workhouse in London; and Theresa Duffy (1839-1888) -- put in ancestry as "half sibling" as her birth record had no father listed.
The younger Theresa Duffy leads to marrying Charles Manser; then follows a line down to me, eventually.
I'm wondering if anybody can help tie these together (despite my post being a bit of mess) particularly the Thomas Duffy (was he born in Liverpool, hence why I posted here) part, that's been bugging me for over a year now!
Thanks
Richard
-
Hello,
Where is your information from? You say you have Thomas Duffy and parents are given as Theresa Riley - where is it given?
The marriage of Charles Manser and Theresa Lavinia Riley has her father as Thomas Riley, Crossing Sweeper.
Do you have her in any census as Riley?
Heywood
-
sorry, yeah I didn't explain it very well.
census records started it off;
Charles Manser (b 1839) m. Theresa Duffy (1839-1888) who I spoke about.
That marriage was in 1860 In Marylebone.
Next.
Theresa Duffy b.1839 in a Workhouse, St marylebone. Mother is Theresa Duffy again. (no father - from birth certificate.)
the problem here is because Theresa Lavinia "Riley" wasn't riley at all. It was Duffy. We think Riley was a name used by her mother? I did find out before but I can't remember when or where.
--edit - The Banns listed shows her as Riley - but checking birth records shows no Theresa Riley's actually existing and didn't make any sense at the time.
That's why the father you put as Thomas Riley, Crossing Sweeper, not sure if it is that or not!...and that's where I get confused.
-
Here is 1851 Piece 1488. Folio 10 Page. 43
11North Street St Marylebone
Theresa Duffey 52 yrs widow Laundress b Dublin
Susan Duffey daur 17 yrs. laundress b Liverpool
Theresa Duffey daur 12 yrs b Marylebone Deaf
Thomas Duffey son 25 yrs b Liverpool
So now it makes more sense. :)
-
1841 they are Duffy
Serisa Duffy and family
-
Yep, those 1841 & 51 are correct.
Now it gets more tricky.
Theresa's father on the baptism is James Hoy.
But.
Who was the Thomas "Riley" from earlier, there is no records about him or whoever he is (the father I presume to the other children, Thomas, Mary & Susan.
-
There are baptisms in Liverpool for Thomas 1825, Susan 1832 and possibly the same family Peter in 1834. Parents named as Thomas and Theresa Duffy.
Do you have that information?
-
I don't.
Any further information going back knowing more about Thomas & Theresa Duffy would be welcome - although Thomas might be suitable for the lancashire thread, I think the irish one would be needed for Theresa!
-
I can't see anything else sorry.
Theresa may just have made the name up.
-
Would be strange, although another son "peter" being found could be useful.
I did find a pallo's index and marriage record for a Thomas & Theresa Duffy in 1818 - in Marylebone area again, but offers no further clues whether "Thomas Duffy actually existed and where he came from :p
-
He must have existed if he is on the marriage register. :) that looks very promising.
Unfortunately, though no other information as it is so early.
-
I think this is the marriage of Thomas Duffey jnr. Unfortunately, there is no image to see what information he gave re his father. However, the civil marriage certificate would show this.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6J3-VZ1
-
This looks like Susan's marriage
Christ Church St Marylebone 1st January 1856
Susannah Duffey and Patrick Doherty father Thomas Duffy Dyer (I think it says that)
1861 has Susanna Doharty 26 yrs born Liverpool and husband Patrick living in St Marylebone.
It does look as though Thomas Duffey/Duffy did exist but was not the father of Theresa.
I know you have a James Hoy but I can't see any reference to him other than in the published trees. Where is he mentioned please?
-
Ok I don't know if by chance I struck a breakthrough on Thomas Duffy - just a guess but I don't know (head's in a spin) whether it all connects.
I found a death record on 29th July 1836 (burial) for a Thomas Duffy in St.Patrick, Lancashire. Not sure if it's related, as any census entries post this (1841) Theresa Duffy doesn't have any Husband listed.
So, I thought, about 40 years back for a birth record, perhaps in a similar area, (and had to include Ireland, of course)
And stumbled on a record (book entry) of a baptism on 15th May 1797 at St.Mary's, Lancashire. With Edward & Elizabeth Duffy as parents. There's another listing in Dunshaughlin in Meath, but i'm not sure whether, either, or any is correct at this stage.
James Hoy - he is listed on the christening record as the father. (I did shoebox it on my Ancestry account.)
-
Thanks. I know you had said there was no father on the birth cert. and then I got mixed up with the two Theresas and missed that it was the baptism record. I have seen it now.
When you say Lancashire, do you mean Liverpool? The difficulty is that Duffy is a common name.
My grandmother was a Duffy!
Thomas jnr and Sarah both use Duffey at times also.
-
St Mary's RC church was in Edmund Street in Liverpool at that time and St Patrick's RC church is still there in Toxteth. Lots of Liverpool Irish people baptised at these churches.
Blue
-
Thanks Blue. I just wanted to make sure.
However, Thomas and Theresa married in London :-\ The burial though could be a possibility as some children were born in Liverpool.
-
Baptisms:-
Thomas Duffy, born: 30 Jul 1825, baptised: 22 Aug 1825, Church: St Mary RC Liverpool, Father: Thomas Duffy, Mother: Teresa Duffy
Susan Duffy, born: 16 Jul 1832, baptised: 4 Aug 1832, Church: St Peter RC Liverpool, Father: Thomas Duffy, Mother: Teresa Duffy
Peter Duffy, born: 8 Oct 1834, baptised: 12 Oct 1834, Church: St Peter RC Liverpool, Father: Thomas Duffy, Mother: Teresa Duffy, Godparents: Walter & Catherine Talbot
Burials:-
Peter Duffy, age: 1 6/12, buried: 29 Feb 1836, burial place: St Patrick RC Liverpool
Thomas Duffy, age: 40, buried: 29 Jul 1836, burial place: St Patrick RC Liverpool
Possible Dublin baptism for Thomas Duffy:-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f885740364653
Possible Dublin baptism for Teresa Reilly:-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/4439340151216
Blue
-
We have the Liverpool baptisms and the burial is the one that Devilish found which sounds very good.
The Dublin baptism for Theresa sounds very promising doesn't it with the father's name of Peter.
I wouldn't be as sure re Thomas but could very well be.
Just had a thought that daughter Mary is shown as born Ireland in 1841
-
The family must have gone back to Ireland after the birth of Thomas. Perhaps the mother's maiden name was taken by the daughter because she was born illegitimate or the mother used both surnames. The baptism shows the father as James Hoy but he mustn't have remained with the mother.
Blue
-
Yes, that is probably the case re the surname.
As Devilish said, the younger Theresa's birth certificate gives no father but her baptism shows James Hoy.
You would imagine that if Theresa (mother) was going to invent a father for the baptism, she would just give Thomas Duffy's name. As James Hoy is given - perhaps he is the father and did exist but didn't stay. :-\
If Devilish has the right marriage also, you would think that there were other children before Thomas.
-
He might have been married and unable to be with her or an Irish labourer who returned to Ireland or went overseas.
Blue
-
If Devilish has the right marriage also, you would think that there were other children before Thomas.
Perhaps Thomas Duffy was going where the work was and they didn't spend much time together in their early married years if they did marry in 1818.
Blue
-
Perhaps. I had wondered about an army life also. His son has him as a Dyer I think on his marriage certificate.
-
I don't know about RC records for London to check baptisms. If there were any children born in London before 1825 they either died or left home before the 1841 Census.
Blue
-
Do we have this from the Workhouse Admission Register?
Thursday July 11 1839
Duffey
Theresa, 36
Thomas, 13
Mary, 11
Susan, 7
Theresa, "13 Born"
W House
"Widow far advanced in pregnancy"
Blue
-
I don't know what Devilish has but that is really good and adds to the research. :)
I think the birth certificate has Theresa as a single woman but that is interesting re the 'widow'.
-
Was Mary Duffy baptised Mary Anne Duffy?
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/834cbf0174698
Blue
-
Was Mary Duffy baptised Mary Anne Duffy?
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/834cbf0174698
Blue
Looks good ;)