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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: metropolis on Thursday 31 July 14 12:42 BST (UK)

Title: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: metropolis on Thursday 31 July 14 12:42 BST (UK)
I am looking for information on Robert Fox my Great Grandmothers father. I have her marriage certificate and censuses for 1881 onwards after she married John Morgan born Llangenten near Builth Wells Breconshire in the 1840s, they then moved to Yorkshire. They were married in 1865 in the old chapel Blaina where her father was listed on the certificate as Robert Fox occupation Filler, I can find no birth record or census records for him . He would have been born in the early 1800s and was maybe working in one of the mines in the area of Bedwellty or Blaina in Monmouthshire. Grateful for any help with either a birth record or marriage record.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 31 July 14 14:36 BST (UK)
after she married John Morgan born Llangenten near Builth Wells Breconshire in the 1840s, they then moved to Yorkshire. They were married in 1865 in the old chapel Blaina

Can you confirm when John Morgan married Miss Fox, and what her Christian name was?
HAve you found her on censuses after her marriage - if so when and where does she say she was born? Hopefully that will help find earlier records of her with her family.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 31 July 14 14:46 BST (UK)
Answering my own question -

This looks like the marriage (I guess the 1840 you mention must be Johns birth year then)

Apr/May/Jun 1865
Bedwelty
11a 149
Elizabeth Fox / John Morgan

HAve you got the ref for 1871 /1881 - there are LOADS of John and ELizabeth Morgan couples around!
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 31 July 14 16:23 BST (UK)
Presumably this family - not in Yorkshire at all! ;D

1901 census: Class: RG13; Piece: 4627; Folio: 6; Page: 4
85 Portrack Lane, Stockton-on-Tees, County Durham

Morgan, John  Head  M  58  Engine Fitter's Labourer  b Builth, Breconshire
Morgan, Elizabeth  Wife  F  56  b Blaina, Monmouthshire
Morgan, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  20  Servant Domestic  b Stockton
Morgan, John H  Son  M  8  School  b Stockton
Morgan, Edward  Grandson  M  2  b Stockton


1871 census: Class: RG10; Piece: 5405; Folio: 30; Page: 9
14 Alma Street, Cwmdau(?), Aberdare

1881 census: Class: RG11; Piece: 4896; Folio: 67; Page: 9
34 Lumley<?>, Stockton, Durham
(places of birth shown as "Wales")
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 31 July 14 17:08 BST (UK)
I'm not seeing any Elizabeth Fox, born Blaina c1845, in the 1851 census?

Maybe she was born near Blaina?
Or maybe she was illegitimate, and Robert Fox was a "convenient" father?
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: metropolis on Thursday 31 July 14 20:40 BST (UK)
Thank you for your reply. That is the right family living at Portrack lane. Stockton on Tees in 1901.
I cant find Elizabeth Fox  or her father Robert Fox,living in Wales on the 1851 or 1861 census either. Thanks again for looking I appreciate that.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: osprey on Thursday 31 July 14 23:01 BST (UK)
there is a Robert Fox in Blaina in 1841 whose occupation may read filler, but his death was registered dec qtr 1843 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 12. His burial record shows he was buried in Aberystruth 7-12-1843 aged 46.

1841 Blaina, Aberystruth HO107/742/6 folio 27 pg 48
Robt Fox 40 filler
Elizabeth 15
Mary 14
William 15
James 12
Sarah 12
Anne 6
all born in county

The baptisms I've found so far for the children show Robert's wife to have been an Elizabeth. The only family members I can see so far in 1851 are in lodgings.

 :-\
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: metropolis on Thursday 31 July 14 23:47 BST (UK)
thank you for taking the time to look. I have found this record before, it maybe him but he was still alive in 1865 as he was a witness on his daughter Elizabeths wedding certificate  in 1865 his occupation was a Filler though.I can find no other records of him.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: lizdb on Friday 01 August 14 08:49 BST (UK)
Perhaps she had an older brother Robert (not at home in 1841) who was the witness? Or a cousin. But not necessarily her father.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: osprey on Friday 01 August 14 10:31 BST (UK)
does Robert Fox appear as her father's name and a Robert Fox sign as a witness? If only as the name of her father, it does not mean that he was there or even that he was still alive.

Who were the witnesses? This info may help us trace Elizabeth before her marriage.
What address is given for her on the marriage cert? Have you looked for that address on the 1861 census?
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: metropolis on Friday 01 August 14 11:34 BST (UK)
It does say father -occupation Filler.
I have tried searching for any siblings but to no avail. thanks
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: metropolis on Friday 01 August 14 11:41 BST (UK)
I have just taken another look at the marriage cert and it says . Robert Fox residence at time of marriage Blaina, so he must have been alive. The two witnesses where Robert Jones and Ann Jones. place of marriage was The Old Chapel Blaina, Bedwellty 15th June 1865.
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 01 August 14 12:25 BST (UK)
The naming of a father on a marriage certificate is not proof that he was alive at the time! ;D

If it says (Deceased) then you can say for certain that he has died.
If it doesn't say, then there is no way of knowing (from the certificate) that he is alive or dead.

Addresses relate to the bride and groom, NOT to their fathers? ;D
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: scotmum on Friday 01 August 14 13:02 BST (UK)
If it says (Deceased) then you can say for certain that he has died.

...provided, of course, the bride or groom knew and/or answered truthfully.

I have had certificates in past with a father recorded as 'deceased', when he was very much alive.

 ;D
Title: Re: FOX FAMILY OF BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/MONMOUTHSHIRE
Post by: Kaptain Krapton on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:52 BST (UK)
I've just found you by Googling and joined up on the spot.

I don't know about your specific family but it seems there was a whole exodus from Monmouthshire to Teesside as workers followed the iron and steel industry in the mid-late 1800s, even to the extent that they built a number of Welsh speaking chapels up there. I have found one - probably the only one - historic document on the subject. I don't know how to attach stuff but if you come back to (*) I can pass it over.

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.

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Title: Re: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: metropolis on Tuesday 14 October 14 09:57 BST (UK)
Thanks for your response, you are right about the Welsh moving up north ,with the steel industry
expanding in Middlesbrough, the Steel Works was right next to Portrack Lane. Could you please post any information you may have, as it seems your message was removed?
thanks
Title: Re: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: Kaptain Krapton on Tuesday 14 October 14 11:40 BST (UK)
This is frustrating; it won't let me attach and it is a fascinating document. Yes, the moderator removed my email.

Let's see if you can see my Linkedin profile:

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-church/b/396/372

If not, try googling Chris Church Citizens Advice  - that might get you to me.

Fingers crossed.

C
Title: Re: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 14 October 14 11:55 BST (UK)
You can't add attachments to certain boards! Like ". . . . Lookup Requests"! ;D

Secondly, RootsChat is freely open to search engines (like Google, Bing and the like). So any email address can be seen by any Tom, Dick or Harry!
So that's why your email address was removed.

Finally, once you have made 1 more post, the Personal Message (PM) system becomes available to you. There is a 3 post minimum to foil spammers and time-wasters!

You can then send email addresses, and personal information, through the PM system.

Easy, huh?! ;D ;D
Title: Re: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: Kaptain Krapton on Tuesday 14 October 14 12:38 BST (UK)
Wow, thanks, K,

So I imagine this reply counts as that third. I'll go back and have another go.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: FOX family of BEDWELLTY/BLAINA/Monmouthshire
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 14 October 14 12:59 BST (UK)
My interest in this thread was because my mother was born in Blaina!