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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: goldie61 on Thursday 31 July 14 12:01 BST (UK)
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Hi everybody
What might his children want to do? ( I won’t say what I think it might be..)
From a Sasine of 1751.
Sorry about the definition – the original text is very very tiny.
These were no where near as bad as I thought they’d be! At least they’re not in old Scots!
“ whole provisions above specified and in regard the said Michael Cochrane his children a former marriage it is hereby provided and declared that in case these children ? ? to his half of the lands of Meadowfoot ….”
Many thanks
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succeed
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That's what I thought the second bit might be Alexander. But there seems to be a bit of a word in front of it after 'children'- do you think it might be 'do succeed'?
Thanks :)
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I thought it might be presumed?
Carol
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Hello -
It does look like 'presumed'.
craggagh.
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Hi Goldie,
Yes - spelt Doe.
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That's what I thought Horselydown. Thanks.
Thanks everybody for their input - sorry GR2 - I think I called you Alexander! I know you're both fantastic at deciphering.
:P
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Sorry Goldie... I disagree... as it relates to children of a former marriage.....I think it's "presumed"
Carol
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"Doe Succeed" - this would mean that there is a capital D. Looking at the other words in the excerpt there seems to be a consistent use of capital letters only to begin key words which would not include "Doe". There is a similarity to the formation of the first letter of "Declared" earlier in the line. Grammatically, "do succeed" would make sense.
"Presumed" - the word would be important enough to have an initial capital letter. It would be helpful to compare the formation of a capital letter P if there is one elsewhere in the document. If the word is "presumed" there would be a grammatical inaccuracy - would this be consistent with the rest of the document?
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I cannot find one capital ‘p’ in the two sasines I have, which I know were written by the same person (they run consecutively in the register and were written an hour after each other). Even ‘important’ words like ‘notary public’ (neither word have a capital letter), or ‘precept of sasine’ (no capitals)
Capital letters are not necessarily used even for people’s names or place names.
He does, however, use a lot of capital ‘d’s, and not only for ‘important’ words.
In fact I think every word that starts with a ‘d’ is written with a capital.
As to grammar, surely if the verb ‘presume’ were to be used, in this case it would be the present tense ‘presume’ and not the past tense ‘presumed’?
Although the spelling is a little random in places, his grammar seems fairly sound to me.
The piece reads – I’ve put in where the capital letters are – and aren’t.
‘and in Regard the sd michael Cochrane his Children a former marriage it is yrby provided and Declared that in Case these Children ? ? to his half of the sd lands of meadowfoot and the heir of this present marriage be yrby excluded yrof that then and in Case the said margaret Hamilton marrying again to a second husband she yrby forfaults looses and tines the Benefit of the whole Liferent provided to her in manner aforesd ‘
You would think ‘provided and declared’ would warrant the same treatment here – whether both capitals, or both lower case, but the ‘p’ of ‘provided’ is lower case, and the ‘d’ of ‘declared’ a capital.
Thanks Philip
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The logic behind capitalisation in documents of this age tends to
defeat the modern reader, probably because there is no logic. ???
My first reading was "Doe Succeed", although on more careful
examination, there is a letter missing from the second word. Whether
it is a "c" or an e", I can't tell. Enlargement doesn't help due to the
image quality.
vv.
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I agree there is a missing letter in 'succeed' - a second 'c' I'd say.
Along with his capitalisation of odd words, his spelling is also a little random to our eyes.
I have seen 'ricieve' (receive), 'discribed' (described), 'breadeth' breadth, not to mention 'publick', and doubling of consonants where we wouldn't and only one where we would!
So I don't think I'm too worried about only one 'c' in succeed.
Sorry about the image - the writing was so minute it doesn't matter what you do, it really doesn't get very clear by the time it's blown up a lot.
Thanks vv