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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: JAKnighton on Friday 25 July 14 15:08 BST (UK)

Title: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Friday 25 July 14 15:08 BST (UK)
This is a photo of my 3x great grandfather Jabez Knighton sitting between his sons Ernest and Samuel. I have been able to identify their regiments as the Northamptonshire Regiment and the Coldstream Guards, but I am intrigued about the lapel pin that Jabez is wearing. Does it have any military significance, or is it just a fashion item?

It doesn't seem likely to me that Jabez would have been in the military but I have been surprised before.

Apologies if this is a silly question.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 25 July 14 15:17 BST (UK)
Can you zoom in or enlarge? All that is visible is white dot.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Friday 25 July 14 15:19 BST (UK)
Can you zoom in or enlarge? All that is visible is white dot.

All it appears to be a is a white dot even when I enlarge. I was just wondering if lapel pins have any military significance at all, rather then identifying a specific type of pin.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: philipsearching on Friday 25 July 14 15:48 BST (UK)
Depending on what Jabez did for a living it could be a trade union button.

Philip
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 25 July 14 16:01 BST (UK)
Could be anything, bowling club badge? :)

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: macintosh on Friday 25 July 14 17:51 BST (UK)
Can't help with the lapel button but the Coldstream Guardsman is in the Guards Machine gun battalion.


James
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: old rowley on Saturday 26 July 14 09:58 BST (UK)
Could well be a Silver War Badge. These were given out to service men who had been discharged from active service due to wounds etc which made them unfit for further service. Worn on the lapel it showed to all that the wearer had "done his bit" so to speak. With that in mind have you seen the Medal card Index for a Jabez D. Knight held at the NA? For a fee you can download it.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_fn=jabez&_ln=knight&_no=&_crp=&_ttl=&_ser=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=online&image1.x=59&image1.y=15

OR.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 26 July 14 10:16 BST (UK)
Lad on the right looks to have the Pioneer Company collar insignia.
Which one is the Coldstreamer?

http://www.photodetective.co.uk/Pioneer.html

Ady
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Saturday 26 July 14 10:19 BST (UK)
Depending on what Jabez did for a living it could be a trade union button.

Philip
Jabez was consistently listed as a farm/agricultural labourer on every record I have of him from the age of 16 to his death at the age of 85, so I'm not sure. That wouldn't count as a trade would it?
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Saturday 26 July 14 10:20 BST (UK)
Can't help with the lapel button but the Coldstream Guardsman is in the Guards Machine gun battalion.


James
From what I know he was in the Guards Pioneer Division, as he has the rifle/pickaxe insignia on his collar.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Saturday 26 July 14 10:21 BST (UK)
Could well be a Silver War Badge. These were given out to service men who had been discharged from active service due to wounds etc which made them unfit for further service. Worn on the lapel it showed to all that the wearer had "done his bit" so to speak. With that in mind have you seen the Medal card Index for a Jabez D. Knight held at the NA? For a fee you can download it.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_fn=jabez&_ln=knight&_no=&_crp=&_ttl=&_ser=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=online&image1.x=59&image1.y=15

OR.

Thanks for this, although it seems the Silver War Badge was given out in 1916 specifically for WW1 soldiers, Jabez is in his 50s here and I doubt he went to war. Were similar pins given out for Crimean or Boer War veterans?
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Saturday 26 July 14 10:23 BST (UK)
Lad on the right looks to have the Pioneer Company collar insignia.
Which one is the Coldstreamer?

http://www.photodetective.co.uk/Pioneer.html

Ady
Yes it is Samuel, the tall one on the right, who is the Coldstreamer. He definitely was part of the Pioneer Company as that insignia is clearly visible in my larger copy of the image.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: mmm45 on Saturday 26 July 14 10:24 BST (UK)
He wouldve been 4th battalion as they were Pioneers ...his record should be available from Coldstreamers Archives in London they cost about £30 to get
They were in different location to others destroyed in blitz

Ady
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: macintosh on Saturday 26 July 14 10:40 BST (UK)
Methinks a bit more homework on my part.

James
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Saturday 26 July 14 10:44 BST (UK)
Methinks a bit more homework on my part.

James
Your post was helpful because it made me do more research on the Coldstream Guards, I was quite sure he was a Guards Pioneer but your suggestion that he was in the Guards Machine Gun battalion made me second guess and check my sources, which is always good for family history research :)
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: old rowley on Saturday 26 July 14 11:54 BST (UK)
With regards to the Silver War Badge. It was instigated during the 1st WW and was not issued prior to this period. As for his age and service, the oldest that I have found recorded for someone serving during the 1st WW was 68 (although the person concerned had lobbyed his MP so that he could serve and this one instance would have been exceptional) however there were men who served in the forces well into their fifties. If you have a subscription to either the two main sites that deal with family history you should be able to search the SWB Roll that they hold to see if he is on there.

OR.

Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: seahall on Saturday 26 July 14 22:04 BST (UK)
Hi.

JAKnighton I have just been reading about the family on a message you left here.

Most informative.

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.knighton/281/mb.ashx

Sandy
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: JAKnighton on Monday 28 July 14 08:37 BST (UK)
Hi.

JAKnighton I have just been reading about the family on a message you left here.

Most informative.

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.knighton/281/mb.ashx

Sandy

Thank you Sandy!
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: Stebie9173 on Thursday 31 July 14 14:03 BST (UK)
I wonder if it is something similar to a "sweetheart badge" normally worn by girlfriends (and female relatives) to show their solidarity with the serving soldiers. Jabez may be wearing a Northamptonshire Regiment styled one to show that he had a son serving?


Steve.
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: km1971 on Thursday 31 July 14 15:43 BST (UK)
Not a Silver War Badge. They were wider and worn on the right lapel.

Ken
Title: Re: Lapel Pin
Post by: Stebie9173 on Thursday 31 July 14 19:52 BST (UK)
Do you have any information on Ernest's military career?


Steve.