RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: JWKanney on Wednesday 16 July 14 17:05 BST (UK)
-
Hello All,
My name is JW Kanney and I'm from America. I've been doing some research on my genealogy and I've run into a snag. I've found my Great (x3 or 4) Grandfathers gravesite; his name was Charles Kanney. On his tombstone is written "Born in Ireland" but with no date although it says he died in 1926. I'm finding it tough to locate any Kanney's in Ireland and I'm wondering if perhaps his surname was different when he was born.
Any tips on how I should proceed from this point would be greatly appreciated.
-
Hello and welcome :)
It may be a variation of Kenny /Kearney / Carney.
Do you have your ancestor in censuses? That would give you an approximate year of birth and maybe immigration date plus any family members.
Regards
Heywood
-
Trying to locate his marriage record might also help. Was his wife buried with him? Can you also tell us where he was buried?
-
That's just it. I can't find any immigration records with his name listed. He is burried next to two other Kanney's that were married alongside their small child. On the childs gravestone it lists the parents last name as Kenney with an "e." I found that to be odd, but no one in my family knows if by chance our last name used to be "Ke" instead of "Ka." I just feel as though I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Other than his gravestone, I have nothing proving his existance.
-
As I said, what about census?
Presumably he had a child for you to be here :) so is s/he in 1910 or 1920?
-
I've yet to find him in any census. I was just able to find him on Ancestry due to the fact that others found him before I did. He was eventually married in Virginia, and of course had children. That's about all the info I could find on him.
One of my relatives mentioned that they found his Fathers name which is Patrick. But then again, I can't find any record of a Patrick Kanney in Ireland, or anywhere on the genealogy sites I've visited.
Thanks.
-
You must have had some information to find his grave. Tell us what you know about his children and in particular the one that is your ancestor.
-
My mother told me about his gravesite and she knows less than I do about our family. I'm not sure how she found out about it. Charles had a son named Grover which was my fathers own name. My father was the third or forth "Grover" in the bunch. I'm just glad they stopped the name Grover when I came along. :)
Very little info can I get from those still living, it's as though the Kanney's are a mystery. I'm beginning to fear I may be of German descent. Ha! :)
I'm still waiting to hear from my Aunt. She may have more info, but it doesn't look hopeful.
Thanks for your help though.
-
Are these names familiar?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPL9-YL9
-
I still can't see that you have told us where the grave was. So far you have told us that he has one child Grover that you know the name of and that he was married in Virginia. Do you know:
- Location of grave?
- Was Grover born in Virginia and do you know when?
- Do you know the name of Grover's mother?
- Have you looked for Grover on any censuses?
- What were then names of the other Kanneys that he is buried alongside?
-
Charles was burried in Albermarle County in VA, so that website seems to be accurate. Here is the info about the gravesite and those near his grave.
Lot 9
142. CHARLES KANNEY; BORN IN IRELAND; DIED JAN 1, 1926
143. MCCRAY A KANNEY; 1891 - 1971
144. BERTHA M KANNEY; 1895 - 1957
145. LILLIAN FRANCES KANNEY; DAU. OF MA & BM KENNEY; JULY 14, 1922 - JAN 29, 1923
Notice the childs parents surname is different than their gravestone listing.
-
Are these names familiar?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPL9-YL9
Those names are also mentioned here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018mt/
posting whilst red writing :)
-
The previous link I gave you had Grover C - perhaps Charles. I see now it's probably Cleveland.
Here is a JW Kanney with father Charles https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRC3-QXL
-
That's a wierd coincidence with the JW. My name is actually Jeff, and my brothers name is John Wayne (yep, my dad was a fan.) :)
-
Hei Jeff,
Does this grave for Grover Cleveland Kanney 1904-1981 belong to your family? If so, it could give a starting point for working backwards.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=29506809&ref=acom
-
J W is James W and here he is Kenney. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRQC-DBL
-
There is Chas Kanny Lab single English 32 travelling with Jane Kanny 58 English married Housekeeper on board the Majestic bound for New York Aug 22 1906/8 (not clear)
Might link in somewhere :D
Jan ;)
-
Thanks Craclyn. He was my Grandfather. My father was also Grover Cleveland Kanney and is at the same cemetary. He past in 1987 I believe.
My Great Grandfather was also Grover C. Kanney and commited suicide after his wife died during child birth. Before him is when the history get fuzzy.
-
This looks like the 1930 census record for McCray Kanney and Bertha who were in the adjoining plots.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/CZY4-8ZM
What dates and places do you have for great grandfather Grover ?
-
J W is James W and here he is Kenney. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRQC-DBL
Very interesting Heywood. Perhaps I need to begin looking at perhaps a different spelling.
-
I'll have to log into Ancestry to get my dates, but I'm at work at the moment. I'll let you all know what I have here shortly. Thanks for all your help!
-
This looks like the 1930 census record for McCray Kanney and Bertha who were in the adjoining plots.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/CZY4-8ZM
What dates and places do you have for great grandfather Grover ?
McCray perhaps transcribed as Mack A - brother to Grover who was born 1882
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPL9-YL7
-
This looks like the 1930 census record for McCray Kanney and Bertha who were in the adjoining plots.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/CZY4-8ZM
What dates and places do you have for great grandfather Grover ?
McCray perhaps transcribed as Mack A - brother to Grover who was born 1882
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPL9-YL7
I was thinking the same Heywood.
-
You need to approach genealogy with an open mind. Many of our ancestors could not read or write,and back then it wasn't that important anyway.Even today people do not always spell a name the way it should be spelt. My name is Carol,but many times people write it as Carole.
So you should not rule out any variations on the spelling of a name.
Carol ;D
-
You need to approach genealogy with an open mind. Many of our ancestors could not read or write,and back then it wasn't that important anyway.Even today people do not always spell a name the way it should be spelt. My name is Carol,but many times people write it as Carole.
So you should not rule out any variations on the spelling of a name.
Carol ;D
Thanks Carol(e). I'm thinking that may be the case with me.
-
There’s this ancestral tree posted on familysearch you would need to verify info.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018mu/
Grover G ??? Kanney 1895 Albermarle Co VA
Parents
Charles KENNEY b1860 Hudson City VA died before 1900 Albemarle Co VA
Married 19 Oct 1880
Catherine V KIRBY her parents Calvin M Kirbey & Mary Ann Martin
Find a grave Charles KANNEY 1926
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018mv/
-
Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Samuel Miller, Albemarle, Virginia; Roll: T625_1878; Page: 1B; Enumeration District: 11; Image: 277.
In the 1920 census Grover C Kenneday age 38, wife Maria S Kenneday and 8 children are in Albemarle.
You can find the census record on ancestry. Transcribed as Kenneday, but looking at the image it also looks as though it was written as Kenneday. Maybe you are going to find yourself looking for Kennedy as you go further back.
-
There's an awful lot of information flying around here now but there is this:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MFLV-MC5
The JW Kanney/Kenney gave a place of birth Botetourt and father Charles.
This 1870 image has a James 4 yrs with father Charles Kenney. James' age fits with the marriage age.
Now whether these are linked to Grover - I have no idea!
-
from my last post re: family search Kanney ancestral tree
This looks to be the Catherine KIRBY (father Calvin) who married Charles Kanney in 1880
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-PYM
1900 Samuel Miller Township (Batesville & Covesville Precincts), Albemarle, Virginia, United States
C M KIRBY Head
Catharine KINNY daughter 1860 divorced
Olive gd/dau 17 Virginia
GROVER gd/son 15 Virginia
Matthew gd/son 8 Virginia
Ashby Croft boarder
1890c ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBL
1880
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MFLD-258
1870c Catharine KERBY age 11 father Calvin mother Mary
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M4B1-XRW
1860c St Annes Parish, Albemarle, Virginia, United States
Catherine Kirby age 0 with parents Calvin & Mary plus siblings
-
There’s this ancestral tree posted on familysearch you would need to verify info.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018mu/
Grover G ??? Kanney 1895 Albermarle Co VA
Parents
Charles KENNEY b1860 Hudson City VA died before 1900 Albemarle Co VA
Married 19 Oct 1880
Catherine V KIRBY her parents Calvin M Kirbey & Mary Ann Martin
Find a grave Charles KANNEY 1926
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018mv/
Catherine is on the 1900 census under the name of Kinny
-
from my last post re: family search Kanney ancestral tree
This looks to be the Catherine KIRBY (father Calvin) who married Charles Kanney in 1880
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-PYM
1900 Samuel Miller Township (Batesville & Covesville Precincts), Albemarle, Virginia, United States
C M KIRBY Head
Catharine KINNY daughter 1860 divorced
Olive gd/dau 17 Virginia
GROVER gd/son 15 Virginia
Matthew gd/son 8 Virginia
Ashby Croft boarder
Thanks Ladyhawk, this does sound familiar. He was married to Catherine in Batesville. But this is where my research ended at his gravesite. I can't seem to get further back than him, other than I've heard his father was named Patrick.
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBL
1880 Samuel Miller, Albemarle, Virginia, United States
Calvin M KIRBY 65
Mary A 64
Samuel R 24
CATHERINE H dau 19
Annie E 14
CHARLES KENNEY 15 New York father & mother’s birth place IRELAND
All others born Virginia
-
Hi,
Been following this one, how about this in 1870.
Charles Kinney age 5 born New York with wait for it......, parents Patrick & Bridget Kinney both born in Ireland!
Here's a link to it: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8KF-WTS
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBL
1880 Samuel Miller, Albemarle, Virginia, United States
Calvin M KIRBY 65
Mary A 64
Samuel R 24
CATHERINE H dau 19
Annie E 14
CHARLES KENNEY 15 New York father & mother’s birth place IRELAND
All others born Virginia
posting whilst red writing :)
Ok, so if Charles wasn't born in Ireland like the gravestone says, at least his parents were. I may begin looking in Ireland for a different surname and see that helps any. Thanks Ladyhawk.
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VNV3-SRF
1875 Hornellsville, Steuben, New York, United States
Patrick KENNEY
Bredget
Edward
CHARLES 10
Maggie
Anna
Thomas
Mary
Could this be him on 1875 census?
Oops sorry David just noticed you had already posted 1870 :)
-
Hi,
Been following this one, how about this in 1870.
Charles Kinney age 5 born New York with wait for it......, parents Patrick & Bridget Kinney both born in Ireland!
Here's a link to it: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8KF-WTS
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
Thanks David. Cant't go wrong with two surnames I guess.
posted red....
-
Hi,
Here's Patrick & Bridget Kenney in Brooklyn, New York in 1880. All the children appear to have left home. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ82-TH8
Struggling to find them in 1900 at present.
Hope this helps though.
Kind regards
David
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VNV3-SRF
1875 Hornellsville, Steuben, New York, United States
Patrick KENNEY
Bredget
Edward
CHARLES 10
Maggie
Anna
Thomas
Mary
Could this be him on 1875 census?
Oops sorry David just noticed you had already posted 1870 :)
Could this be the Thomas (shown above in 1875) marrying in 1896? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F6WC-1M8
Kind regards
David
-
I'm still researching on the Patrick and Bridget thing. Not sure if that's totally correct. I had heard that Charles was born of Patrick in Hudson City, NJ...but I'm not sure if that's correct either. It's like searching for the proverbial needle.
-
Hi,
Here's Patrick & Bridget Kenney in Brooklyn, New York in 1880. All the children appear to have left home. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ82-TH8
Dont't think that's right David (sorry can't link as not looking on FS)
1870 Census - Hornellsville, Steuben, New York
Patrick Kinney 37
Bridget Kinney 30
Frank Kinney 11
John Kinney 9
Edward Kinney 7
Charles Kinney 5
Maggie Kinney 4
Annie Kinney 1
1880 Census - Hornellsville, Steuben, New York
Patrick Kinney 41
Bridget Kinney 46
Francis Kinney 21
John W. Kinney 19
Edward Kinney 17
Charley Kinney 14
Margret Kinney 13
Anna Kinney 11
Thomas M. Kinney 9
Mary L. Kinney 5
That means that Charles Kinney/Kanney if one and the same is on the 1880 census twice, once in NY and once in Virginia.
-
I found Charles Kenney in Virginia during the 1880 census and it states he was born in NY in 1865. Which would make the NY census of 1870 correct with his age. He was lodging with the Kirby family of which he married Catherine at some point. Perhaps a shotgun wedding. :)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBT
-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBL
1880 Samuel Miller, Albemarle, Virginia, United States
Calvin M KIRBY 65
Mary A 64
Samuel R 24
CATHERINE H dau 19
Annie E 14
CHARLES KENNEY 15 New York father & mother’s birth place IRELAND
All others born Virginia
JWKanney - when you looked at the above 1880 census posted does it give a date of birth for Charles?
Perhaps getting Charles marriage certificate to Catherine may help hopefully would confirm his father's name & their occupations
1900 census says Catherine Kinny Divorced
few hits came back for a Catherine Kinny (Kirby)
here's the link see what you think - to view you have to pay :(
http://www.rootschat.com/links/018n8/ - may be a different person of course :-\
-
I haven't seen an exact birth date, but from looking at the records it seems to be around 1865. I'll try and find his marriage date to Catherine to see if that helps. Thanks.
-
I'll try and find his marriage date to Catherine to see if that helps.
Don't know the accuracy but the ancestral tree posted gave a date of
19 October 1880
and 2nd marriage for Catherine to G A Croft
17 December 1901
-
I'll try and find his marriage date to Catherine to see if that helps.
Don't know the accuracy but the ancestral tree posted gave a date of
19 October 1880
and 2nd marriage for Catherine to G A Croft
17 December 1901
Thanks Ladyhawk. I just found that myself.
-
Just for info. as I know you are looking for details of Charles rather than Catherine but I wonder if
the 2nd marriage for Catherine Kinny nee Kirby to G A Croft
did she marry the ASHBY Croft that is with boarding with the Kirby/Kinny family in 1900 :-\
-
Not sure whether you have seen these
From US 1900census
Grover KINNY born March 1885
this looks to be his Draft Registration
Hardin County, Iowa, United States
Grover Cleveland KINNEY born 16 Mar 1885
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZ28-67N
nearest relative Lena Mabel Kenney
1907 Hardin, Iowa, United States marriage Grover to Lena
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJQ1-T2V
doesn’t mention either names of their father’s
EDITED as the above is another Grover Cleveland Kinney born c1885
see link gives parents names as C E KINNEY & Loisa CARAWAY
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZ82-JR5
-
There is about a ten year difference in birth years, but this could be the same child of Charles and Catherine.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MCDH-YB3
-
Following this thread has been intriguing.
No new information, but just to focus the search:
Patrick and Bridget KANNEY (or spelling variant)
both (according to census data) born in Ireland.
Patrick born c1833, Bridget born c1834 (going on ages given in censuses)
Living in New York in 1870
Several children born in New York - oldest is Frank born c1859.
So - did Patrick and Bridget come over from Ireland as a couple? If so, they must have arrived between c1850 and 1859
As they settled in New York it is probable (but not definite) that they arrived in New York
They may not have begun the voyage in Ireland (they could have set off from Liverpool or another English port)
If they arrived separately, did they marry in the USA (New York?)
If they arrived separately, Patrick could have arrived from c1833 to 1859.
I will hunt for arrivals c1850 to 59 and see if I can find any trace.
All the best
Philip
-
I will hunt for arrivals c1850 to 59 and see if I can find any trace.
Just so you know - I am searching on Castle Garden from 1847 to 1860 using a wildcard P and K search to allow for spelling variants and abbreviations, then narrowing down possibilities for Patrick. Once I have a manageable list I will cross-reference for Bridget to see if I can find a match.
-
I will hunt for arrivals c1850 to 59 and see if I can find any trace.
Just so you know - I am searching on castlegarden from 1847 to 1860 using a wildcard P and K search, then narrowing down possibilities for Patrick. Once I have a manageable list I will cross-reference for Bridget to see if I can find a match.
Sweet! Thanks for your efforts Phillip.....much appreciated.
-
I would agree with Phillip and forget about what you were told or what you think, focus on proof and that is only in real records, bear in mind ( as you have already been advised) that spellings were unimportant if you look at real records in Ireland eg 1901 census you will see just how many could still not read and write so no one corrected spelling, it was spelt how it sounded and depends on who was writing it down, then when they could read/write they used the spelling they had, which is why you get so many variants in the same family.
.....and my advice is establish your records and proof in the USA that is from real records and a solid foundation as surname searching in the whole of Ireland is going to find you hitting that brick wall all over again, there are plenty of records in the USA online, that is not the case for Ireland and although it is a tiny country you will find there are dozens and dozens of people born in the same area with the same names IF you are able to find any online records ( more likely transcriptions online) You really need a named place in Ireland, a county, a townland or ideally a village/town, certainly you need every bit of information you can find before you try to jump the pond to a completely different records system and where most records are still in parish churches.
-
There is about a ten year difference in birth years, but this could be the same child of Charles and Catherine.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MCDH-YB3
Perhaps there was a typing error and the '9' should be an '8' :-\
The 1900 census Grover is aged 15 years born Mar 1885
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-PYM
-
I'm not shocked that there could be a typo. There are plenty of conflicting results, but I guess that's part of the job when researching such things.
-
I may have this wrong - Is the only evidence re Charles at the moment the 1880 census and the headstone?
1880 has his birth, New York but in other censuses for his children, they have Virginia as their father's birthplace.
I do realise re errors, lies and ignorance though.
Additionally, Charles, son of P &B in New York is also in 1880 census - hasta's post.
Heywood
-
There is about a ten year difference in birth years, but this could be the same child of Charles and Catherine.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MCDH-YB3
Perhaps there was a typing error and the '9' should be an '8' :-\
The 1900 census Grover is aged 15 years born Mar 1885
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-PYM
It looks like an 8 on the original
-
I may have this wrong - Is the only evidence re Charles at the moment the 1880 census and the headstone?
1880 has his birth, New York but in other censuses for his children, they have Virginia as their father's birthplace.
I do realise re errors, lies and ignorance though.
Additionally, Charles, son of P &B in New York is also in 1880 census - hasta's post.
Heywood
Right now that's the only evidence Heywood, but his birth place is the part that confuses me. One 1880 census has him living with the Kirbys, one of whom he eventually married; this cencus has him being born in New York. It would be a large coincidence to find another Charles K sharing a home with another Kirby family with a daugher named Catherine. At this point I don't put much stock in the gravestone, although I'm open to any and all documentation that may come up.
Was there a Census stating he was born in VA? I've seen three and they all have New York.
-
MargP, looks like Catherine had a thing for boarders. :)
-
Right now that's the only evidence Heywood, but his birth place is the part that confuses me. One 1880 census has him living with the Kirbys, one of whom he eventually married; this cencus has him being born in New York. It would be a large coincidence to find another Charles K sharing a home with another Kirby family with a daugher named Catherine. At this point I don't put much stock in the gravestone, although I'm open to any and all documentation that may come up.
Was there a Census stating he was born in VA? I've seen three and they all have New York.
I have only seen him in 1880 census. Which others do you have him in?
His children's censuses show their father born Virginia. That is if I have the right children. :)
-
Right now that's the only evidence Heywood, but his birth place is the part that confuses me. One 1880 census has him living with the Kirbys, one of whom he eventually married; this cencus has him being born in New York. It would be a large coincidence to find another Charles K sharing a home with another Kirby family with a daugher named Catherine. At this point I don't put much stock in the gravestone, although I'm open to any and all documentation that may come up.
Was there a Census stating he was born in VA? I've seen three and they all have New York.
I have only seen him in 1880 census. Which others do you have him in?
His children's censuses show their father born Virginia. That is if I have the right children. :)
Here are the census' I've been looking at so far:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBL
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8KF-WTS
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCPX-WBT
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8KF-WRY
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZFY-1MP
I'll have to print them off and look them over. Something doesn't seem right. Perhaps I should look into the children as well.
-
Those censuses are the 1880 twice which you know is him - with the Kirbys.
The others are the 1870 and 1880 from NY - which would then be doubtful as he is in Virginia in 1880.
-
Those censuses are the 1880 twice which you know is him - with the Kirbys.
The others are the 1870 and 1880 from NY - which would then be doubtful as he is in Virginia in 1880.
Could it be just a coincedence that both census' match for his age and birth location at the time? They would both have a Charles born in 1865 inside of NY. Or could he have moved to VA and been counted twice? Or is that just grasping at straws? I see that from the 1870 census to the 1880 census that Patrick only aged four years.
-
It would be good if you could find marriage details.
What information do death certificates carry?
If he died 1926, he should be on censuses after he divorced Catherine.
-
I'm looking into that now. I would think a death certificate would have his birth date and location, but since I dont' have one yet, I'm not certain. :)
-
It would be good if you could find marriage details.
I agree with that Heywood - it should name Charles' father and give his occupation
Not definite by any means but the marriage date given for Charles & Catherine was 19 October 1880
Dob given for the KINNY children
Olive FEB 1883
Grover MAR 1885
Matthew JAN 1892
Next question where is
Charles in 1900 and when did they divorce?
And where are
Catherine
Olive ,Grover & Matthew
after 1900 census,
Catherine possible married 1901 Mr Croft (only speculation it may have been the boarder Ashby Croft from 1900 census)
What information do you get on a marriage certificate in the US?
Marriages for Virginia 1851 – 1929 are searchable on Ancestry - sorry I can't help you out there :(
-
You really do need to get the marriage certificate.
The transcription of the marriage online 'Virginia Marriages, 1851-1929'
Chas. Kanney
Catharine Kirby
9 Oct 1880
Albemarle County
Page: 114
"Before a license was issued, the parties to be married had to offer the following information: full names, ages, places of birth and residence, proposed marriage date and place, marital status (widowed or single), parents' names, groom's occupation, and minister's name"
-
Matthew is McCray, I think.
-
It would be good if you could find marriage details.
What information do you get on a marriage certificate in the US?
I'm not certain, I'll have to look at my marriage certificate. I believe they only have the date and location of the wedding, and who did the ceremony.
-
You really do need to get the marriage certificate.
The transcription of the marriage online 'Virginia Marriages, 1851-1929'
Chas. Kanney
Catharine Kirby
9 Oct 1880
Albemarle County
Page: 114
"Before a license was issued, the parties to be married had to offer the following information:
full names, ages, places of birth and residence, proposed marriage date and place, marital status (widowed or single), parents' names, groom's occupation, and minister's name"
If they mention Charles' parents names that would answer some of your questions?
hasta
Out of curiosity really do they have an entry for a possible remarriage of Catherine to a G A Croft in 1901
also do they show baptisms for Virginia ?
1882 dau Olive
1885 son Grover
1892 son Matthew
-
Going back to parents Patrick and Bridget I have done a crossmatch search with data from the CastleGarden website to see what I can find out. Unfortunately, CastleGarden doesn't seem to have a facility to search the lists in the order they were written, so I cannot tell whether or not the names are linked (they may be members of entirely separate families, or siblings, or travelling alone!) Is there a Rootschatter who knows a good site where either the original lists are viewable or they have been transcribed in the order in which they were written?
Anyway - here is what I have found (discounting people under 16 at the time of the voyage and people with an estimated birth date well outside those shown on censuses):
Catherine - arrived 22 Feb 1850, on board Pat Carney 17, Bridget Carney 16
Shannon - arrived 3 Mar 1851, on board Patt Carney 20, Bridget Kenney 20
The Queen - arrived 25 Dec 1851, on board Patrick Coney 18 and Bridget Coney 22
Irvine - arrived 28 Sep 1852, on board Pat Kenny 22, Bridget Kenny, 22
Otseonthe - arrived 17 Oct 1853, on board Patt Carney 17, Bridget Carney 18
Western Empire arrived 23 Jun 1854, on board Patt Kenney 21, Bridget Kearney 17
James Nesmith - arrived 28 Aug 1854, on board Patt Connay 7, Bridget Carney 20
Conqueror - arrived 16 Nov 1854, on board Patrick Kearney 22, Patrick Kenney 24, Bridget Kenney 22, Bridget Kenney 17
Fidelia - arrived 26 Jul 1855, on board Patrick Kenny 21, Bridget Carney 18
John Bright - arrived 24 Apr 1858, on board Patrick Kinney 22, Bridget Kerney 18.
I have to say that I am not convinced that any of the above are the couple in question - my gut feeling (generally my gut is an unreliable source!) is that Patrick and Bridget may have married in the USA.
All the best
Philip
-
I'm not sure if this will throw a wrench into what we've been finding, but here are the 1900 census records for a Chas Kinney...born in Ireland...and in the correct county of Virginia.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-QK7
I have a few issues with this though. The record states that he is 25 years old, but in the image he states that he is 35. Here's what's wrong, in the image his birth year is listed as 1875, but the census is 1900 and that would put his birth at 1865 with the other censuses we've been looking at. He's also listed as single and not divorced.
-
I'm not sure if this will throw a wrench into what we've been finding, but here are the 1900 census records for a Chas Kinney...born in Ireland...and in the correct county of Virginia.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-QK7
I have a few issues with this though. The record states that he is 25 years old, but in the image he states that he is 35. Here's what's wrong, in the image his birth year is listed as 1875, but the census is 1900 and that would put his birth at 1865 with the other censuses we've been looking at. He's also listed as single and not divorced.
I was just going to post this and you beat me to it :D It looks very good - the right place- Samuel Miller township and the right 'age'.
He says he immigrated in 1873 so the age would probably be right at 35 yrs!
-
I'm not sure if this will throw a wrench into what we've been finding, but here are the 1900 census records for a Chas Kinney...born in Ireland...and in the correct county of Virginia.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MMF6-QK7
listed as single and not divorced.
Good find everything is worth pursuing even if it's not a perfect match - perhaps he thought of himself as single after his divorce :-\
So next is finding the whereabouts of
Chas/Charles 1865, Catharine 1860, Olive 1883 & Grover 1885 Kinny/Kinney/Kanney in 1890
son Matthew not born until 1892
-
The 1890 census was destroyed - only fragments left and not Virginia :'(
I wonder where he is in 1910 and 1920? - or at least where is that Charles.
-
The 1890 census was destroyed - only fragments left and not Virginia :'(
:'( :'( What a shame that census may have solved some of the questions about Charles
Just to say I've edited my post reply 46
Re: Draft Registration of Grover Cleveland Kinney born 1885
looks as if it's another by the same name born 1885
here's another link to the marriage in 1907 which gives parents names
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJJH-MK5
so if you do get the 1880 marriage certificate of Chas Kanney & Catharine Kirby you may get some answers about Charles' parents - fingers crossed.....
Please come back and let us know if you do :)
ADDED
If they all married perhaps it may worth looking at one of those m/c to
Olive, Grover or Matthew
Heywood gave this link for 1910 census as a possibility for Grover & his brother
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MPL9-YL7
Grover C KANNEY age 28 born 1882 Virginia
wife Mabel S, children Grover C, Rosebud, William M
Brother Mack A age 24 born 1889 :-\
from 1900 census Catharine KINNY's children dob differs
Grover b1885 & Matthew b1892
as there's no 1890 census can't compare names or ages :(
I wonder what happened to their daughter Olive?
Don't know if this makes any difference but her pob has been left blank on the 1900 census
born Feb 1883, where as Grover b Mar 1885 & Matthew b Jan 1892 are given as Virginia
and both their parents pob is also given as Virginia
-
Further to heywood's post re: 1910 census this could be Mack A
(apologies if I'm duplicating info. but the thread is rather long to keep going back and forth.........
draft registration
Mc Crey Allen KANNEY born 23 Aug 1891 pob Baitsville Virginia
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1KT-BF3
relative Mrs Bertha May Kanny
1930c Clifton, Alleghany, Virginia, United States
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/CZY4-8ZM
McCray A KANNEY wife & 2 children
previously posted by Craclyn
1920c Clifton, Alleghany, Virginia, United States
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MJNQ-QTB
transcription gives McCray's initials as M H
father pob Ireland mother Virginia
-
Thanks everyone for all the research you each have done. Soon I'm going to rebuild my tree on the LDS page. I found some info on a different website that was for a different family that had Charles and Catherine in their tree. It gives his birth year and her year of death as well as their children. I saved the info on my computer at work; I'll post it on Monday when I return. I'm off to Tennessee for the weekend with the wife and kids. Thanks again.
Jeff
-
I found some info on a different website that was for a different family that had Charles and Catherine in their tree. It gives his birth year and her year of death as well as their children.
I saved the info on my computer at work; I'll post it on Monday when I return.
I'm off to Tennessee for the weekend with the wife and kids. Thanks again.
That's great news look forward to seeing the info. you have found
Enjoy your weekend with your family :)
-
Thanks everyone for all the research you each have done. Soon I'm going to rebuild my tree on the LDS page. I found some info on a different website that was for a different family that had Charles and Catherine in their tree. It gives his birth year and her year of death as well as their children. I saved the info on my computer at work; I'll post it on Monday when I return. I'm off to Tennessee for the weekend with the wife and kids. Thanks again.
Jeff
Everything you have been given is a clue about where to look for REAL records, some have even given you the record cites so you can check those, NOTHING is real until you check those real records and NO one else's TREE online is real, they are NOT records and again you need to research and find the real records before you can know if they are real or not
-
Yes looking forward to seeing any other information.
Have a great weekend :)
-
What information do you get on a marriage certificate in the US?
This is going to vary by state and time frame. Same with death certificates.
-
Everything you have been given is a clue about where to look for REAL records, some have even given you the record cites so you can check those, NOTHING is real until you check those real records and NO one else's TREE online is real, they are NOT records and again you need to research and find the real records before you can know if they are real or not
iluleah is right! Never assume another person's tree is correct. I found an online tree in which my maternal grandmother's father's father married my maternal grandfather's father's mother- quite an achievement since they were living on opposite sides of the Atlantic and never met! If you add information from other people to your tree quote the source so you can double-check it against original records later.
All the best
Philip
-
Thank you all for your input as I know well enough not to trust another's tree. I also have found that it's hard to trust "official" documents. Witnessing how much my last name has changed will confirm that. Right now, each piece is a small piece of a larger puzzle that I'm not sure will ever be completed. I'll keep trying though. :)
-
Thank you all for your input as I know well enough not to trust another's tree. I also have found that it's hard to trust "official" documents. Witnessing how much my last name has changed will confirm that.
You didn't mention names just purely out of curiosity who did they name as Charles and Catherine 's parents?
Right now, each piece is a small piece of a larger puzzle that I'm not sure will ever be completed.
I'll keep trying though. :)
Good luck :)
-
Thank you all for your input as I know well enough not to trust another's tree. I also have found that it's hard to trust "official" documents. Witnessing how much my last name has changed will confirm that. Right now, each piece is a small piece of a larger puzzle that I'm not sure will ever be completed. I'll keep trying though. :)
You have no option but to trust them( documents that is, not trees) as far as researching your ancestry is concerned they are historic records as long as you are looking at the real records themselves, as there is nothing better to look at or prove another way.
In so far as name changes, that can come down to their choice, my great grandfather started his life with one full name, middle name and surname and changed it , swopped them around during his lifetime several times and died/buried with a completely different name and surname to what he was registered/baptised with, so if I was relying on a name only I would never have found any of his records
It is also ability/literacy of our ancestors and if they could read/write even then names were written as they sounded ( not how we assume what is now 'correct' spelling) and/or people who could read and write wrote the name on the records, so you can get 10 real records in one year each with a different name on it or spelt differently, thankfully a name in isolation is not what we research