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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jstuber on Sunday 13 July 14 14:28 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find information on a Charles Thornton who married in Iowa in 1892 and gave his age as 37. On the birth of his first child three months later he gave his age as 49. On his marrige record he gave his birth place as Thornton Abby, Devonshire, England and listed his father as W.T. Thornton and mother as Louisa J. Parson. He appears to have been a bit of a scoundrel and it's possible all this information was made up.
In particular I have been unable to locate any place like Thornton Abby in Devonshire. Can anyone give me a clue where that place might be, or confirm that it's likely a made up place?
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Hi a puzzle to be sure, an online tree has Charles as Charles M Thornton same parentage/pob born 3rd Sept 1854, and being in Clifton, Wilson, Kansas by 1870 aged 15/16 he dies 21st July 1934 Sutter, California.
Is this your tree/man?
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The marriage transcript is on familysearch, no mention of a middle name for him
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJHQ-NMB
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Hi a puzzle to be sure, an online tree has Charles as Charles M Thornton same parentage/pob born 3rd Sept 1854, and being in Clifton, Wilson, Kansas by 1870 aged 15/16 he dies 21st July 1934 Sutter, California.
Is this your tree/man?
That's not my tree.
Where did you find it?
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The tree is on Ancestry.com
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The tree is on Ancestry.com
Got it. I see a few others there too.
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Be aware that these trees are notoriously unreliable. As with all family history check the original source. I have family mentioned on there who are apparently living and dying in the USA when they have never left the UK and I am not alone. ;D
There is one on there that seems to be collecting evidence of their facts. :)
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Be aware that these trees are notoriously unreliable. As with all family history check the original source. I have family mentioned on there who are apparently living and dying in the USA when they have never left the UK and I am not alone. ;D
There is one on there that seems to be collecting evidence of their facts. :)
I agree - lots of them with him on them are trash.
I'm mainly interested in figuring out the truth or not about his birth place.
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I don't believe the Charles M. Thornton death in 1934, Sutter, California is this Charles Thornton.
Charles M. Thornton was actually Charles Melvin Thornton who, whilst born circa 1853, was actually born in New York (according to census) plus lived in Sutter all his adult life until his death there in 1934.
Annette
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I agree that's not him.
I suspect he died in a coal mining accident in the Iowa county next to where he was married (Monroe), in 1901. A Charles Thornton appears in the 1900 census there (with another woman) but gave his age 20 years younger and born in Australia, not England. That would explain any accent he had. A person named Charles Thornton is well recorded as dying in that accident.
I think his whole life was filled with deceit, and that his birth location was just another of them.
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A couple of questions:
1. Is there an occupation given for his 'supposed' father W. T. Thornton when he married Clara in 1892?
2. When his wife Clara remarried in 1902 was this as a widow?
Annette
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1. Occupations were not listed on marriage records at that time.
2. Good question. All I have is the first page of their marriage record, which doesn't list that. That's an avenue worth pursuing.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJ5C-2TP
Charles ran a jewelry shop in the small mining town they lived in, until he was arrested for not paying his suppliers. He jumped bail and fled, my presumption is to the neighboring county. He and Clara had three children, the first documented (before his disappearance) and the later two were not. My presumption on that is that he didn't want to have it known he was back in the county. Here's Clara in the 1900 census with those children. She's listed as married.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9KM-LBJ
In January of 1901 she filed for divorce, as noted in the local newspaper. Then in June of that year is when a Charles Thornton was killed in a coal mine. That too was noted briefly in the newspaper, but nothing about family or next of kin.
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I think his whole life was filled with deceit, and that his birth location was just another of them.
Saying he was born Thornton Abbey having the surname Thornton sounds as though he is trying to give an impression of parental wealth or similar. ;D
The only property of this name that I can think of in the UK is in Lincolnshire.
Thank you for the links they were most helpful
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Here's the 1900 census with the person I suspect is the same Charles Thornton.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M921-LD6
These were not highly populated counties and they sit adjacent to each other. Each had about 20,000 people.
If that's him, he was not only a criminal but a bigamist as well.
I can find no trace of him in later years.
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Thornton Abby/ey is not a place but, as mentioned, there is a property with this name in the village of Thornton Curtis, Lincolnshire. There were no people named Parson/s or Thornton living or born there however. There is also no Charles Thornton with a mother Louisa on census or baptisms for the relevant period who was born in Devon.
So, since Charles could spin a yarn, it seems, then I will spin one too which you can keep on the back burner!
What, if anything, could be true on his marriage certificate I wondered? His father is given as W T Thornton - so were there any W T Thornton's in England at the relevant time. Assuming the obvious I looked for William Thomas Thornton of some means (since citing Thornton Abby as a birthplace sounded somewhat grandiose).
On 15/4/1841 at St. Pancras, London a William Thomas Thornton, of full age, 'Gent' married an Elizabeth Evelyn Darvers (think it should be Danvers).
If you 'google' him you'll find quite a lot about him - he was born 1813 in Burnham, Buckinghamshire, was an author, civil servant, etc.
W T and wife had 3 children - first 2 born St. Pancras and youngest in Marylebone. They lived in Marylebone for a while and later moved to Kensington where both he and his wife died.
Now for my 'yarn' - a Charles Parsons (Parson itself being not such a common name and none born in London at relevant time) was b.18/8/1855 and bp.29/9/1855 St. Pancras, son of Louisa Parsons. He was born in the Workhouse. In the words of all good mysteries 'what happened next'?
I can find no trace of this child after his baptism and no idea who Louisa Parsons was (although there were a number of servants with this name in London in 1851. Louisa may have married and Charles appears under her married name on 1861/1871 census but who can say.
Certainly, the prosperous William Thomas Thornton had various servants - was Louisa Parsons one of them 1854/55? Without wishing to malign said gentleman was it possible he had a 'dalliance' with one of the servants i.e. Louisa Parsons who was 'cast off' by the family once her pregnancy evident and who had to resort to the Workhouse once destitute? Did she tell her son exactly who his father was? For some reason I believe his mothers name is real (and Parsons rather than Parson) and since he doesn't appear to have been born a Thornton then illegitimacy seemed the way to go.
All if's, but's and maybe's I know but the scenario itself could be a possibility. Once he reached the US Charles 're-invented' himself, that's for sure!
Annette
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If Rootschat ever creates an award for the best story crafted from historical facts, you're certainly in the running. :)
Thanks!
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I looked up William Thomas in the census and he did always have servants: 3 females in 1851, 1 male and 2 females in 1861 and 1 male and 3 females in 1871, always different names.
When I googled his name I found this particularly detailed essay. Nothing about my Charles, of course, but fascinating reading.
http://researchonline.nd.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=bus_article
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I wonder if there was a bastardy order for Charles Parsons ???
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Well at least I found an interesting W T Thornton!! Lol.
Annette
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Well at least I found an interesting W T Thornton!! Lol.
Annette
You could be right in your assumption though ::) ;D
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It appears that the mining accident that involved Chas. Thornton occurred on June 5, 1901 ("Deep Vein", Foster).
Recorded in the June 29, 1901 Centerville Daily Citizen was "decree for divorce was ordered and signed" for Thornton vs. Thornton.
http://centerville.advantage-preservation.com/content/centerville-daily-citizen-1901-06-29-page-4
While this "open court", according to the newspaper report, was a continuation of a prior session, it seems odd that the divorce would have been signed if Mr. Thornton has passed away. Perhaps it was for a legal reason for Clara Thornton, or perhaps the court session was held prior to June 5 and not reported until June 29? ??? Or, perhaps there were two Thornton families in the area filing for divorce?
Have you tried to follow up on his involvement in the United Mine Workers of America, or the I. O. O. F. lodge?
http://centerville.advantage-preservation.com/content/centerville-daily-citizen-1901-06-07-page-1
The newspaper report stated that he left a wife but no family. :-\
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We have written for the death certificate. Hopefully that adds information to prove one way or the other whether the person that died in the coal mine is the same person who married Clara Marshall. The mismatch in ages is the primary difference. The fact that a Charles Thornton is married with no children is explained if he married again without getting a divorce form his first wife. His record of misdeeds in Appanoose County suggests he might do it
I'm afraid the UMW and I.O.O.F are no goes. Here's the UMW statemnet:
http://www.umwa.org/?q=faq/i-am-looking-information-about-ancestor-who-worked-mines-and-was-member-umwa
The likelihood of I.O.O.F records existing is extremely slim. He is noted as living in Hiteman, Iowa. That too is in Monroe County near the mine he died in. It was a small company town and hasn't existed for decades, probably longer. Coal mining peaked in the late 1910's, and most of the mines closed by the 1950's and all were gone by the early 60's. The towns just faded away.
Thanks again for everyone who helped on this. I'm not doing this for myself but helping someone else. I'll point her to this thread and let her take it from there.
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Another possibility is that Charles and Jennie were not actually married, but told people they were (if that wasn't previously mentioned).
I was helping a friend with a tree and in 1910 the husband and wife were living in separate residences (they were still in the same town, but living several blocks away from each other). One spouse told the census taker that they were divorced and the other spouse told the census taker that they were widowed. I guess one could say what one wanted to in those days, or the enumerator made a mistake.
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That wasn't previously mentioned.
And yes, I consider that a possibility as well. I've seen cases like that also.
There's no record of a marriage of Charles to his presumed second wife that I could find and Iowa was quite good at recording marriages in that time frame (if they were married in Iowa).
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I tried a somewhat brief search for Jennie after 1901, but didn't find her anywhere. Jennie could have been a nickname, which makes the search even more difficult. I was hoping that if I could find her, there might be clues for Charles. :-\
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He gave a specific date and place for his birth in the 1900 census, 8/1865 in Victoria, Australia.
I searched the Australian birth records on ancestry and there's no birth recorded anything close to what he said. One never knows how complete those types of records are, but there are 9 Charles Thornton's born in the decade he said, none in 1865, none with the middle initial S. and none with the parents' name he gave.
Yup - neither Charles nor Jennie appear after 1900, excepting his divorce and death.