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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Westy11 on Thursday 10 July 14 03:55 BST (UK)
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Hi
A talk ask I fear but asked on the off chance. :-[
I am looking for the shipping details for George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven. George was born 17 Jan 1875 in Glamorganshire, Wales.
He married in 1899 in Maryborough, Queensland in 1899. George died in Gallipoli 29 June 1915 about 2½ months after he embarked from Brisbane.
I do not know when George left England for Australia and the last date I have him so far is 1881 England Census. He was abt 6 yrs old then....
I have a possible date for his arrival in Queensland on board 'Tara' as 14 Aug 1893 but the record does not state from whence he departed. Name provided was F L Craven so it is debatable if this is George.
Unfortunately this is all that I have on George as it applies to this post. ;D
Westy11
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There’s a George Fulwar Llewellyn CRAVEN who enlisted for service in the AIF in WWI was born near the town of Menangle, in the Burnett District of Queensland as per his AIF papers. He was aged 40 3/12 years, a station hand. His next of kin was his wife, Mabel Ellen CRAVEN. That chap embarked on HMAT “Kyarra” 16 April 1915 and died of wounds received in action, 29 June 1915, on the Hospital Ship “Sicilia”
:) Are you sure your chap was born in WALES ? ..... The above info is from several of the 52 pages of his service record, digitised at the National Archives of Australia website.
I am looking for the shipping details for George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven. George was born 17 Jan 1875 in Glamorganshire, Wales.
He married in 1899 in Maryborough, Queensland in 1899. George died in Gallipoli 29 June 1915 about 2½ months after he embarked from Brisbane.
ADD, "He was 41 when he died. His father was the late Captain Fulwar John Colquit CRAVEN (Grenadier Guard of Brockhampton Park, Cheltenham, England" as per letter from his widow on his AIF file.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx (B2455, CRAVEN G F L )
ADD
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15577997 SMH 28 July 1915
Cheers, JM
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The 1899 wedding .... many many details A Fashionable Wedding
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/148141971 Maryborough Chronicle, Wide Bay and Burnett Advertiser 3 March 1899
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
I inadvertently hit the wrong button and did not finish my reply nor am I sure it was posted. So in the event neither occurred please accept this as the response.
Yes I am definitely sure George was born in Wales and in particular Merthyr Mawr in Glamorganshire, Wales. I have a number of pieces of evidence that support this position. I too noticed the inconsistencies in George's service records.
I have my fingers crossed someone will be able to assist with George's arrival in Australia? :-\
Kind regards
Westy11
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The thing is, the info on his AIF papers is info HE provided, so it is first hand info. What info did he provide on his marriage cert? I understand that he would have given his place of birth, his age, his occupation, and details about his parents to the clergyman for inclusion on that document too.
First hand info is usually more reliable that second or third hand info. But do you know why he would have given incorrect info when enlisting, despite giving his wife's details as his next of kin... To me it does not make sense to give correct info for n o k, but incorrect info for place of birth ... particularly as you have his birth being half a world away....
Cheers, JM
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There’s a George Fulwar Llewellyn CRAVEN who enlisted for service in the AIF in WWI was born near the town of Menangle, in the Burnett District of Queensland as per his AIF papers. He was aged 40 3/12 years, a station hand. His next of kin was his wife, Mabel Ellen CRAVEN. That chap embarked on HMAT “Kyarra” 16 April 1915 and died of wounds received in action, 29 June 1915, on the Hospital Ship “Sicilia”
:) Are you sure your chap was born in WALES ? ..... The above info is from several of the 52 pages of his service record, digitised at the National Archives of Australia website.
ADD, "He was 41 when he died. His father was the late Captain Fulwar John Colquit CRAVEN (Grenadier Guard of Brockhampton Park, Cheltenham, England" as per letter from his widow on his AIF file.
Cheers, JM
Death Qld BDM
1922 F1950 George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven; Father-Fulwar John Colquitt Craven; Mother-Sarah Llewellyn Dillwyn
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I think that 1922 registration with the 'F' is the Qld Government's registrations to ensure those who enlisted in Qld in the AIF and who did not return, were able to have their deceased estates sorted without un-necessary delays... "F" for Fallen.... I think WWII chaps were 'S'
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/information-and-how-to-access-and-order-records/family-history-research-codes/
I noticed that UK's GRO has a registration for 1875 for a George F L CRAVEN. When the NSW BDM commenced civil registrations, it was possible for births to be registered in NSW even if the baby was NOT born in NSW. That is, say a baby had been born 'overseas' up to 18 months previous. His parents arrive in the British colony of N S Wales, and register his birth in the NSW registrar general's records. I wonder if a similar arrangement existed in Wales, United Kingdom in that earlier era?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=660501.0
:) http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12980625
SMH 15 Feb 1856 The short version of the requirements for Civil Registrations of BDMs …. “furnish books for the registry of births, marriages, deaths and forms for certified copies….. The District Registrars are to transmit their copies quarterly to the office of the Registrar General…… Parent required to register the birth of a child within sixty days, housekeepers to give notice of the death of any person on their premises within thirty days …”Children may be registered upon solemn declaration of their parentage until they are eighteen months old, if not born in the colony” Ministers of religion are to receive certificates of the registration of deaths when they attend funerals. ….
Cheers, JM
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Hello JM
I have no idea why George gave incorrect information on enlistment. It is not as if he was uneducated as this was not the case. The only reason I can even think of was that perhaps there was some issue with him enlisting in an Australian army as a British subject??? There may have been some issue between him and his siblings given their parents divorced with decree nisi granted in 1886 but as said initially no real idea at all. I suppose it may remain a mystery ???
Cupoflife - I saw that as well and I have to say that I am confused. Maybe that date of death has something to do when the War Office finally provided a death certificate?? Everything I have said George died at Gallopili. To add to the confusion I was unable to locate a Menangle in Queensland but did locate one in NSW?
Westy11 ???
It really is a mystery to me and hope we may be able to sort it out.
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Hello JM
Missed your reply before I posted mine. Neither of George's parents came to Australia. George's father Fulwar John Colquitt Craven died in 1890 at Brockhampton Park and his mother, Sarah Llewellyn Dillwyn died in 1893 in Coventry.
Thanks so much for the info on the date of death as this explains this apparent anomaly and in part may explain why he gave a different birth location but his correct date of birth???
Westy11
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:) "British Subject" born in Wales, or born in Queensland .... no difference from an enlistment point of view, regardless of his parents divorcing at some time AFTER his birth, presuming his parents were married to each other at the time of his birth. No such thing as "Australian Citizenship" until 1949. (Same for the other dominions eg Canada, NZ, South Africa ... )
:) There were a number of British Dominions that provided death certificates for the Fallen. Queensland, New Zealand, and some others. Many of the Queenslanders are indexed for the year 1922, including several who were Fromelles missing, and researched on the Armed Forces board here at Rchat. :)
Do you have a copy of the English GRO cert? I suspect it will be scant on info, but just perhaps it may give a place of BIRTH as well as the usual address of his parents .... Fingers crossed, the GRO certs can be expensive and give little info.
Cheers, JM
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There’s a Queensland BIRTH registration for a Fulwar CRAVEN in 1873, with parents recorded as Edmund Filmer (CRAVEN) and Caroline SMITH (actually quite a number of children for that couple). # C206 so a NON Brisbane birth. Interesting first name for that 1873 birth. Perhaps no connection at all to your CRAVEN family. That lad seems to have been born 26 May 1873.
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
I see I made my point unclearly as to his parents death. :-\ i was seeking to say that his parents did not come to Australia and died in the UK. This was, I suppose a response to an element in your post as to a perhaps late registration of his birth in Australia.
I don't have George's birth certificate but do have his GRO registration which states "Inferred County: Glamorgan; Volume: 11a; Page: 613" registered in the Jan-Mar quarter of 1875. I have a number of Newspaper articles referencing his birth as 17 Jan 1875 at Merthyr Mawr, Glamorganshire, Wales. His parents divorce papers further confirms his date of birth.
Not being in a fantastically financial state I felt that these pieces of evidence supported the date and location of George's birth and as a result no need to purchase a birth certificate. As stated in a previous post I simply cannot understand why George gave what I consider incorrect information although i have seen a number of instances where incorrect information was knowingly given by a person enlisting. As to their reasons I don't know but I feel comfortable that the reason made sense at that point in time???
Kind regards
Westy11
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Hello JM
Thanks for the reply. As the Craven family prior to the marriage of Fulwar John Colquitt Craven to Sarah Llewellyn Dillwyn is not in my line I haven't progressed that research. I did notice there was the other Fulwar birth as you have identified and had assumed [rightly or wrongly] this family was related to the Craven's in some way and coming in most likely before the marriage of Sarah & Fulwar.
I suppose it wasn't germane to my line of research. I have subsequently had a look around and it appears Fulwar Craven died in Mt Isa Queensland and was 2nd cousin to George.
Kind regards
Westy11
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:) :) Do you have his QLD marriage cert? Perhaps he gave info at that time to support a birth in the UK ?
I have not yet found arrival to Qld :) but I know there was loss of records due to flooding.
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
I appreciate your help... :)
As to purchase of a marriage certificate: no I didn't purchase one and once again relied on the newspaper article confirmed by the QLD BDM marriage information provided as 1899 & C1636.
I knew it to be the correct couple by the Electoral Rolls and the newspaper article you also located.
Westy11
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I guess you have seen this death notice too http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22299477
CRAVEN.— Died of wounds received at the
Dardanelles, June 29th, 1915, George Fulwar
Llewellyn, husband of Mabel Ellen Craven,
Nanango, and second son of late Captain F.
J. C. Craven (Grenadier Guards), aged 40
years.
regards,
Ros
adding : Memoriam notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article20666623
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Hi Rosball
Yes I did and thank you so much.
Westy11 :)
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His records on the AIF Project give his birth as Wales, attended school at Haileyburg, Hertfordshire, England & other training at Colonial College, Hollesley Bay, Suffolk, England.
https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=66315
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Hi Merlin
A great find and further supporting evidence. As to his arrival I do not know if he came to Queensland from UK or came to somewhere else in Australia from the UK.
Westy11
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This site.....
http://www.awm.gov.au/people/roll-search/roll_of_honour/
then........Roll of Honour...with view this circular....link
has him arrived in Australia age 18, also mention of Major Gerald Craven RICARDO Donnington, Berks. as contact for information. (my correction at Gerald)
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Wivenhoe
That is really great. I am amazed I missed that as I had been on that site previously... :-[
Thank you so much as that puts his year of arrival at around 1893.
Do you know a site or 2 that has shipping records for arrivals in Australia??? I will go back and see if there is anything out of the UK around 1893.
Gerald Craven RICARDO is a distant cousin of George and one of the Executors of George's father's Will.
Kind regards
Westy11
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Merlin gave this information:
other training at Colonial College, Hollesley Bay, Suffolk, England.
It's interesting to read abuot the use of the College from 1887:
Hollesley Bay began in 1887 as a colonial college training those intending to emigrate, housing a labour colony for the London unemployed. In 1905 the land was transferred to the London Unemployed Fund, who in turn handed it over to the Central Unemployed Body for London. Subsequently it was taken over by London County Council.
There was a number of similar labour colonies across Britain. Their aim was to train unemployed people for work, with a view to helping them escape pauperism. Hollesley Bay was typical in that it mainly involved exposing its inmates to a period of work either on agricultural tasks or in the kitchens and other relatively unskilled activities. (It is now a prison)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Hollesley_Bay
There are a number of references here, although I think you may need a subscripton.
http://www.connectedhistories.org/Search_results.aspx?pc=Hollesley&sr=bu&st=120&dtf=1600-01-01&dtt=1699-12-31
Perhaps the College arranged passages
Judith
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Copy of original passenger manifest online at QSA:
www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Tara_1890_Aug_to_1893_Aug_QSA_Item_18488.pdf
F L CRAVEN (page 487)
Maryborough Depot - Lists of Immigrants arriving 14 Aug, 1893
Tara - Port of London - Capt. D Campbell
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Hi,
1900 Queensland State Electoral Roll
The Electoral District of Burnett
Nanago Division
Craven George Fulwar, age 22, subdiv 2, por 1v, Par, Burrandowan, grazier.
Qualified by residence, 1th Oct 1897.
His age 22 would have been when he qualified to register in 1897. Being a British Subject he would have had to reside in the electorate for a period to qualify, I'm guessing at 3 months. He was in Queensland by 1897.
Gerry
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There is an entry in Armorial Families : a Directory of Gentlemen of Coat-Armour for George Fulwar LLewellyn COLQUITT-CRAVEN, b 1875, describing his coat of arms. Parents given are those already mentioned.
http://www.mocavo.com/Armorial-Families-a-Directory-of-Gentlemen-of-Coat-Armour-Volume-1/713318/462
The mention of his father in the letter in the NAA WW1 files describes his father as "Captain". George's rank in the AIF was "Private". There is no mention in the marriage report of his parents or other relatives. If he was an 'ordinary' attendee at the Colonial College at Hollesley Bay that doesn't fit well either, with his apparent background. Purely speculation but I wonder if he 'fell out' with his family and did not wish to acknowledge his background on entering the Australian Army.
Judith
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The Brisbane Courier 17 Aug 1893
Aug 10 Tara R.M.S, 1712 tons, Captain D Campbell R.N.R., from London, via ports.
Passengers: Colonel Povah and family, Mrs Russell Chute, Mr S H Smyth, Mrs Richardson, and 6 in the steerage. B I and Q A Company Ltd
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Another RC'er is connected to the family:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=579985.msg4320434#msg4320434
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Merlin gave this information:
other training at Colonial College, Hollesley Bay, Suffolk, England.
It's interesting to read abuot the use of the College from 1887:
Hollesley Bay began in 1887 as a colonial college training those intending to emigrate, housing a labour colony for the London unemployed. In 1905 the land was transferred to the London Unemployed Fund, who in turn handed it over to the Central Unemployed Body for London. Subsequently it was taken over by London County Council.
There was a number of similar labour colonies across Britain. Their aim was to train unemployed people for work, with a view to helping them escape pauperism. Hollesley Bay was typical in that it mainly involved exposing its inmates to a period of work either on agricultural tasks or in the kitchens and other relatively unskilled activities. (It is now a prison)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Hollesley_Bay
There are a number of references here, although I think you may need a subscripton.
http://www.connectedhistories.org/Search_results.aspx?pc=Hollesley&sr=bu&st=120&dtf=1600-01-01&dtt=1699-12-31
Perhaps the College arranged passages
Judith
Hello Judith
That was very good background information. It looks like George left UK after his father's death in 1890. Given this was a family who I don't believe would have worked in the ordinary sense it makes good sense that George would have attended a place that would equip him for a life in Australia. I did locate a dissolution of partnership for a property where he was listed as grazier so it appears he put his new found skills to work albeit they may not have worked too well.
Thanks heaps
Westy11
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There is an entry in Armorial Families : a Directory of Gentlemen of Coat-Armour for George Fulwar LLewellyn COLQUITT-CRAVEN, b 1875, describing his coat of arms. Parents given are those already mentioned.
http://www.mocavo.com/Armorial-Families-a-Directory-of-Gentlemen-of-Coat-Armour-Volume-1/713318/462
The mention of his father in the letter in the NAA WW1 files describes his father as "Captain". George's rank in the AIF was "Private". There is no mention in the marriage report of his parents or other relatives. If he was an 'ordinary' attendee at the Colonial College at Hollesley Bay that doesn't fit well either, with his apparent background. Purely speculation but I wonder if he 'fell out' with his family and did not wish to acknowledge his background on entering the Australian Army.
Judith
Hi Judith
George's father was wealthy as was the family. Given George was the second son it is probable he did not inherit the estates. He had been through tragedy so it could be assumed he wanted a 'fresh start' perhaps a 'sea change' of earlier days? ;D
It makes sense to me that he went to the school which may have been only one such school available to upskill him.
Thanks for your assistance
Westy11
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Thanks for the background info Aussie1947.
Westy11
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Thanks Merlin for your continued digging... It is all starting to come together and thanks to everyone for your efforts to date.
Westy11
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It looks like George left UK after his father's death in 1890. Given this was a family who I don't believe would have worked in the ordinary sense it makes good sense that George would have attended a place that would equip him for a life in Australia. I did locate a dissolution of partnership for a property where he was listed as grazier so it appears he put his new found skills to work albeit they may not have worked too well.
There's another Fulwar CRAVEN, a grazier, dissolving a partnership, however, cannot be your chap, as he was still a child. The property was in The Clarence District of NSW.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/82110155 Warwick Examiner and Times, 16 July 1881.
May I gently again suggest that the Queensland marriage cert will contain information provided by your chap, and he was required to give info about his parents, and about himself, including where he was born.
The AIF project originally accepted submissions from the general public, and was not funded to validate the submissions. It also has entries based on the WWI nominal roll, and the CWGC info. and some Red Cross records. It also has the following statement :
https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/disclaimer.html
" The personal dossiers of individual members, now held by the National Archives of Australia, Canberra Office, are the authoritative record for details of military service. Medal entitlements are recorded on each dossier."
Several of my ancestors WWI details at the AIF project's index contain info that does not match up with their AIF files at the NAA, nor with private family papers, nor with WWI nominal Roll, nor the CWGC.
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
In relation to the dissolution of partnership - the names given were the full name of George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven and included his wife's name as Mabel Ellen Craven: the man with whom he had a partnership was his best man at his wedding. The Electoral Rolls were Queensland Rolls that confirmed the couple of George and his wife Mabel Ellen.
The contact given for the AIF Project was an executor of George's father's will and as said previously a distant cousin. This person was also a witness at the marriage contract between George's father and mother and as a result was also involved [and noted] in the dissolution of the marriage and the process around financial considerations.
I do understand about being careful and about ensuring the evidence supports the position and I agree with you. :)
Kind regards
Westy11
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Hi,
Unless I have read things wrong it looks like George was attested and had his medical on 15th April 1915 and he was kitted out and shipped out next day on the HMAT 'Kyarra'.
Also the age limits for enlistment from August 1914 to June 1915 were 18 to 35 years and in June 1915 these changed to 18 to 45 years. Event though he stated that he was 40 but they still let George enlist, I guess in April 1915 they didn't stick to the age rule too hard considering it was soon to change in June.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry
Thank you for the background information - I too had wondered about George's age and it is so sad to see he lasted only about 2 months and two weeks after leaving Brisbane.
Regards
Westy
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Hi there,
OH and I will be in North Bundaberg on Tuesday (15 July) but fully occupied with some private matters, and so not able to call into the Bundaberg Genie Society's rooms. But, perhaps you could send them an email, asking about the mention of Menangles and the Burnett District on the AIF enlistment papers. It may be of interest to their membership, for anyone researching for ANZAC 1915 commemorations.
I have had a quick look through my offline resources for Bundaberg, but not noticed Menangles, so I will ask various family members when we are with them. Of course, "Burnett District" covers a much larger area of Qld than just Bundaberg :) and today it can mean "North Burnett", and/or "South Burnett" and/or "Wide Bay" and/or Bundaberg Regional Council
http://www.bga.org.au/
Fingers crossed, if only to eliminate the mention of "Menangles"
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM. I have sent an email and will post the results when to hand. Enjoy Bundaberg!
Westy11
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Hi JM
Contacted the Bundaberg Genealogical Society and the response received is "I have looked at George Craven's WWI records on the National Archives website to see the writing of the place of birth. It certainly looks like 'Menangle' to me. I have tried searching place names in Australia and the best is a 'Menangle Station' in NSW. I can find nothing that remotely corresponds in Qld.
I also checked the Qld birth records and there is no record of a birth for anyone of that name in Qld or NSW. The marriage to Mabel Walker is there on 01 Mar 1899.
I looked at Ancestry and there are many family trees with George in them. They all have his place of birth as Glamorgan, Wales. This appears to be confirmed in the GRO Index of Births - George Fulwar L Craven born March Q 1875 Brigend Reg Dist Vol 11a Page 613 - and also by the 1881 Census. He is recorded with his parents, siblings, and his paternal grandfather, living on his grandfather's farm in Gloucestershire.
I cannot say why he would not name his real place of birth. The closest that I can come to that name is a place called Gebangle in the Burnett area."
Most interesting!
Westy11
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They are a good lot there, prompt and helpful. I will ask around re Gebangle ;)
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
Thanks so much - so fascinating. Enjoy your Bundaberg trip.
Westy11 :)
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Incidentally on the findmypast index passenger lists leaving the UK, I think you can find him under "G F L Gaven". (on the Tara) - probably if you look at the image it's just a matter of mistranscription.
Do you have a copy of his father's will? Is he specifically named there or is the estate just divided up among the kids?
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Hi Jorose
Thanks for that - I should have thought of that variation... :-[
I don't have his father's will but by account of newspaper articles the estate went to the eldest son.
Westy11
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Ancestry also shows G F L Craven, gentleman, single adult male, aboard the Tara, ticketed to 'M'boro' (presumably Maryborough). Tara's passenger list was signed off in London, June 20, 1893.
It is, as Jorose said, easy to see why it may have been transcribed as 'Gaven".
Judith
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Thanks Judith
When the conundrum is finally solved and I look back and wonder why I couldn't see it anyway as it is now so obvious.... :-[
Thanks
Westy11
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I have added a correction to the UK outbound index on Ancestry (just in case anyone else is looking ;D )
The Queensland manifest says just "F.L."
Page 21
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Tara_1890_Aug_to_1893_Aug_QSA_Item_18488.pdf
Debra :)
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Never mind, Westy - you've met lots of nice chatters and found out some other things. ;D
Just as a last thought on the place of birth as listed on the NAA WW1 record, I agree with others who have commented that anomalies are not uncommon. The personal information on the attestation papers seems to be in a different hand than that of George's signature so perhaps the person taking down the particulars should have heard "Nanango"; perhaps the question was poorly articulated (perhaps "Where do you come from?') and George thought the question was related to his current address. I can imagine the place of enlistment would have been very busy as he enlisted at Enoggera which was the site of the main reception camp for Queensland recruits for the AIF, and is still the site of one of Australia's largest military barracks.
However, we'll never know!
Judith
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Great idea Debra.. For the next poor soul who doesnt look for variations... :P
Westy11
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Judith
Yes I agree I did find out a range of information previously not held so good point... Your idea as to why his place of birth was not recorded correctly works for me especially as the other information was accurate. You would have thought the person asking the question would have noticed George's accent and asked for clarification as I imagine it would have sounded British given his background. However maybe the person asking the enlistment questions wasnt a born and bred Aussie anyway?? All conjecture anyway.
No matter because as you have said: we wont ever know and it may well have been an innocent mistake rather than a deliberate inaccuracy.
Kind regards
Westy11
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Small newspaper snippets to add to things.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/20127620?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/53376520?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/20130452?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/20012840?searchTerm=
The above item from the Brisbane Courier 27th July 1915 states that he arrived at Nanango 21 years ago and at one time owned a property, Cooindah.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/148141971?searchTerm=
Craven - Walker wedding 1899.
Gerry
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Westy11
Do you know what happened to Mabel?
I saw that she had changed her address to Sydney in the NAA WW1 papers. In those papers are such sad, polite letters she wrote to the authorities, even thanking some bigwig for conveying 'a kind message of sympathy from the King, Queen and the Commonwealth Government' as well as expressing her thankfulness that he died on board a hospital ship 'cared for at the last'. Such acceptance! She did not know where he had been buried even as late as 1919.
Oh, the war to end all wars....................
Judith
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Do you know what happened to Mabel?
Never remarried & died in NSW:
CRAVEN Mabel Ellen d. 1949 MARRICKVILLE #10762
Parents: William & Elizabeth
Death notices:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27577972
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article49684431
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Hello Merlin, Judith & Gerry
Thanks once again for your assistance and leads. I had read the letters Mabel wrote to the war office and I too was amazed by the tone of her letters [polite and gracious]. George as we now realise lasted just 2 and a half months after leaving the shores of Australia and many may not have even lasted that long. George was buried at sea. Before finding that out I had not realised that men who died on these ships would have been 'buried' at sea. The term seems to be a bit of an anomaly to me.
So incredibly sad....
As to what became of Mabel: I hadn't completed my research so thanks for that information.
Many thanks also for the hyperlinks to the newspaper articles.
Thanks once again to one and all. Rootschat forum "the gift that keeps on giving'...
Westy11
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Hi,
Some trivia.
You maybe aware that George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven a grazier of Cooinda Jumma near Jimbour was in partnership with George Hay Hives of Sandy Creek near Mondure as "Hives and Craven" and the partnership was dissolved by mutual consent on 12 December 1902. Ref: Qld Gov Gazette, 13th Dec 1902 page 1320.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry
Thanks for that Gerry. George Hay Hives was George's best man at his and Mabel's wedding. Its great to connect the dots....
Westy11
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Hi
I realise this is a rather ancient thread now, but I just came across it whilst trying to chase down all the descendants of my GGG Grandfather; George's mother Sarah was his daughter and thus sister to my GG Grandmother Mary.
As I'm in the UK, I don't have a lot of access to Australian records, so I've picked out a few useful links from this thread.
My question is, and I may have by assumption answered it in the negative by reading the death notices of Mabel, did George have any children?
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Hi Wharfrat
As far as I was able to determine George and Mabel did not have children or at least none that survived to be registered.
Westy
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Thanks Westy
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I am assuming that you know that there were others of the CRAVEN family also in Queensland at around the same time, and there is a death record for a Fulwar Guy CRAVEN as late as 1964.
I've not followed them very far as I thought you may not need the information but, according to an Ancestry tree, they appear to be descended from
Fulwar Craven (of Brockhampton Park), 1782–1860
Born: 25 JUN 1782 • Barton Court, Kintbury, Berkshire, England
Died 14 APR 1860 • Northleach, Gloucestershire
Buried Brockhampton Park, April 21, 1860
Judith
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Hello Judith,
Yes and it occurred to me that these folk already in Queensland may have been the reason George decided Queensland and Maryborough was the place to which to immigrate.
But it may have been coincidence.
Many thanks for your efforts on my behalf Judith.
Westy