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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gavsmum on Tuesday 08 July 14 16:24 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm looking for the baptism of Bridget Baty born 1821 in Bellingham, Northumberland . I have her father's name from her marriage cert which is Thomas Baty and her mother's name from the 1841 census which is Mary but I can't find Mary's maiden name. If anyone has these parish records could you please have a look for me. Unfortunately nothing comes up on Ancestry or family search.
Thanks very much
Lindsey
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freeReg has Greystead * baptisms for 1818 - 1852, but no Bridget Baty is showing up on a search :(
In fact no Bridget Baty anywhere on freeReg in Northumberland :(
* Edit: since I wrote this, the title of the thread has been altered. It was originally asking for a baptism in Greystead.
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Hi Jen
So sorry I was just about to change my post. Bridget was born in Bellingham not Greystead - got her mixed up with someone else.
Many thanks
Lindsey
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In the 1841 census Bridget is shown as 20 and Mary as 60. It could actually be possible that Mary is the grandmother rather than the mother.
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and her mother's name from the 1841 census which is Mary.
The 1841 census doesn't show relationships :-\
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Bridget was born in Bellingham not Greystead -
My local library has Bellingham transcripts - I'll take a look for you next time I'm there (the years you're interested in not covered by free Reg)
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That's worth thinking about.
Thanks very much both of you.
Linsey
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Hi Jen
Thanks very much that would be brilliant!
Lindsey
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Possible marriage if Mary does turn out to be the mother
Name: Thomas Baty
Spouse's Name: Mary Charlton
Event Date: 06 Dec 1804
Event Place: Bellingham,Northumberland,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00246-1 , GS Film number: 252546 (familysearch)
Looking at the censuses Bridget gives her place of birth variously as Hott, Greystead and Bellingham. According to Genuki Greystead is a separate parish (includes Hott)
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Greystead/
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Thanks very much for that David I will have a look. I know what you mean about her place of birth on the censuses that's what confused me on my original post.
Many thanks again.
Lindsey
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My local library has Bellingham transcripts - I'll take a look for you next time I'm there (the years you're interested in not covered by free Reg)
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If you're not planning to be at the library tomorrow, Jen, I can have a quick look while I'm at Woodhorn
Christine
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My local library has Bellingham transcripts - I'll take a look for you next time I'm there (the years you're interested in not covered by free Reg)
If you're not planning to be at the library tomorrow, Jen, I can have a quick look while I'm at Woodhorn
Christine
[/quote]
Thanks Christine - Friday is the earliest I could manage :)
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The bishops transcripts for some Greystead records are on familysearch. I did not find a baptism for Bridget but did find two burials, one for Thomas (Bridget’s father?) and one for Catherine (her sister or sister in law?)
Also noted there were a fair few Charltons in Hott
Thomas Baty 1836
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0181d/
Catherine Baty 1832
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0181e/
This baptism suggests Catherine was a daughter to Thomas and Mary
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWWB-7BS
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Thanks very much Christine - look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks David I will check these out.
Many thanks to all of you.
Lindsey
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Between 1816 and 1829 there are a few Baty baptisms in Bellingham but all to parents Isaac and Jane and not a Bridget to be seen.
There was one other - in 1815 to James and Mary Baty. No sign of a Thomas either.
The baptisms on the microfilm I was using began in 1813 so I didn’t go back further than that.
Any chance they could be Presbyterian?
Christine
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I don't know Christine but sometimes the censuses say she was born in Bellingham and other times she was born in Greystead. I thought they would be the same Parish but Davidft put on that they are different parishes so it's rather strange. He sent me a marriage between a Thomas Baty and Mary Charlton if Mary proved to be Bridget's mother and that was 1805 so if that's the case, Bridget would be one of the youngest children.
It doesn't look as if I am going to get any proof of this but thank you very much indeed for trying.
Lindsey
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Don´t give up on Bridget without trying some of the non-conformist churches in the area. Might also be worth looking to see if there is a local Catholic church with Bridget as first name.
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It doesn't look as if I am going to get any proof of this but thank you very much indeed for trying.
I wouldn't give in so easily. As already suggested they could be Presbyterians. Another possibility is that they are in a different parish eg Falstone which as I see it would be easier to get to than Bellingham especially considering where they were living at Hott Cottage in Smailsmouth (now Smalesmouth) in 1841.
I did order the film for Falstone at a local Family History Centre but as they have moved to Kew I don't go there anymore. However if I get the chance sometime (not in the near future) and get a chance to see the Bellingham registers before 1813 I will look for children of Thomas and Mary as up to about 1811 a lot of Durham \ Northumberland baptisms said where the parents were natives of. These are called Dade or Barrington registers
http://www.sog.org.uk/learn/help-getting-started-with-genealogy/guide-six
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Northumberland Archives have St Oswald's, Bellingham (Roman Catholic) baptisms from 1794 onwards, and also Presbyterian birth/baptisms from 1803 so it might be worth asking for a look-up in those.
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Bellingham/ChurchRecords.html
My local library has pre- 1813 baptism transcripts for Bellingham so I'll take a look when I've time.
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Thanks very much Craclyn - I will take your advice.
Thank you very much David that would be brilliant.
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Thanks very much Jen I appreciate your help with this.
Lindsey
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Bellingham has borders with 6 other parishes including Greystead. Two of the others, Thorneyburn to the north and Wark to the south, also border Greystead. It might be worth looking around these two as well as Falstone which David suggests but please don't give up.
There are burials for a Mary Baty age 63 in Greystead 1844 and Thomas Baty age 59 in Greystead 1836.
Any lookups needed at Northumberland archives - just ask as I'm there most Wednesdays
Christine
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Thanks Christine. I suppose there could be a chance that Bridget wasn't baptised but I think it would be unusual in those days. According to her marriage certificate she was married at St John, Newcastle (thinking about it now, she wouldn't have been Catholic), her husband, James Ferguson was a pitman and they were both resident at Angus Court. I assume they were both working in Newcastle at the time. My husband has just found St John's records on line and is very frustrating that 1845 seems to be missing for marriages but he's still going through them. He thought there might be some other information on the church record.
If you have time next Wednesday, could you please have a look at the other parishes and if we find anything on line, I will let you know.
We had already found the deaths but thank you very much for looking.
Lindsey
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My husband has just found St John's records on line and is very frustrating that 1845 seems to be missing for marriages but he's still going through them. He thought there might be some other information on the church record.
You will find very few marriages via the Bishops Transcripts after 1837, when Civil Registration began.
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Thanks Jen. We have found a few children on Familysearch born to Thomas Baty and Mary Charlton but not for a Bridget or her brother John found on the 1841 census but we will keep trying.
Lindsey
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A few thoughts/questions:
After civil registration began in 1837 the C of E marriage record will be the same as the marriage certificate. There should be no additional information on the church version.
Even though Bridget was married in a C of E church she could still have been baptised RC or Presbyterian.
The children of Thomas and Mary who you found on family search - are any of these on the census records with Bridget?
What is given as an occupation for Thomas on Bridget’s marriage cert?
Christine
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Hi Christine
None of the children we found were on the census record for 1841 only a man called John Baty aged 22 who I assumed was Bridget's brother and a 4 year old called John Baty. We have tried to find John's birth (the elder) but without success just the same as Bridget.
Bridget's father, Thomas Baty, was a labourer and deceased.
I have sent for Mary's death certificate in case the person present is Bridget and she was called daughter. It's a long shot but you never know.
Thanks very much for the other information.
Lindsey
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I checked the Bellingham transcripts in my local library today.
Between 1800 and 1813 (which was the earliest year to which Christine was able to check) there are several Baty/Batey baptisms, but none at all with a father called Thomas.
According to her marriage certificate she was married at St John, Newcastle (thinking about it now, she wouldn't have been Catholic),
As Christine says, it is quite possible that she might have been baptised in the Roman Catholic church but married in the Church of England. I have several examples of this happening from my own family tree.
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Thanks very much for looking Jen. I will have to see if I can find the Roman Catholic records and check those. My husband tells me there is a catholic church in Bellingham but not Greystead.
I haven't received Mary's death certificate yet but I will let you know if I find any useful information on it.
Many thanks again
Lindsey
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Thanks very much for looking Jen. I will have to see if I can find the Roman Catholic records and check those. My husband tells me there is a catholic church in Bellingham but not Greystead.
Yes - it's St Oswalds: see reply #18 :)
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Thanks Jen. Sorry I've got a memory like a sieve.
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I have a fiche of Bellingham St. Oswald R.C. church baptisms. There is an index of names and no Baty or derivatives in those records ie Battey, Batty, Beattie, etc.
I found a baptisms of an Isabella Batey 4 Feb 1814 d/o Thomas and Mary in Falstone C of E
Janis
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Thanks very much for looking Janis. I found the baptism of Isabella Baty too along with some older children all born to Thomas Baty and Mary Charlton. Bridget's father was Thomas Baty according to her marriage certification and I found her on the 1841 census aged 20 living with a Mary Baty aged 60 and John Baty aged 22. The problem is I cannot proof that this Mary was her mother and also called Mary Charlton.
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Northumberland Archives have St Oswald's, Bellingham (Roman Catholic) baptisms from 1794 onwards,
Just for the record: while looking for something else completely I noticed that Newcastle City Library also has Bellingham St Oswald (Roman Catholic) baptisms for 1794-1837 and Bellingham St Cuthbert (C of E) baptisms for 1684-1851
See http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/wwwfileroot/legacy/libraries/Parishregisters.pdf
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Thanks Jen that's useful to keep. I see they have only got marriages for Greystead which is a shame.
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I discovered a transcript, sorted by name, which covered Falstone, Greystead, Humshaugh, Simonburn, Thorneyburn and Wark 1813 - 1839.
There were only 7 baptisms for Batty, Batey or Baty in that time span and all those parishes. No Bridget unfortunately.
She wasn’t in Bellingham Presbyterian either.
Perhaps the parishes on the other side of Bellingham next time?
Christine
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Thanks very much Christine this is very good of you. It's looking like she wasn't baptised or her record was lost or not recorded.
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Hi all
I received the death certificate for Mary Baty this morning and although it didn't mention Bridget, it said that Mary was the widow of Thomas Baty, Labourer which is fantastic because on Bridget's marriage cert it said her father Thomas Baty was a Labourer. I have also looked through the Falstone Parish records online and two of the older children born to Thomas and Mary Charlton said the parents were from the Hott. Thomas and Mary were married and died at the Hott, Mary was on the 1841 census as being at the Hott and Bridget was on three of the later censuses as being born at the Hott.
Although I still haven't found the baptism of Bridget or John, I think now I'm 90% certain that Bridget's parents were Thomas and Mary Charlton but I won't give up just yet.
Many thanks again for all your help
Lindsey
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Hi, there are still several Baty and Batey families in Bellingham, it's a very common name in the area ( I used to live there). Have you tried contacting the Bellingham Heritage Centre as they may know who could point you in the right direction?
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Hi
Thanks very much I will contact them.
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You're very welcome. :-)
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That's a brilliant idea, StoryWoman - I'd forgotten about the heritage centre. It's a lovely place and one of the volunteers has compiled a huge database of local families.
Christine
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I used to be involved with the centre in the early days and loved being part of it. They have amazing resources and huge enthusiasm for the history of the area, it's an absolute gem, isn't it?
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Thanks Storywoman. I did not know about this place either. Looks as though I may have to fit in a trip there as I am now 50% certain that my Henderson line was there for a while. Only 50% though, as I have one other potential candidate for 4th great grandfather to eliminate before I can be certain.
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Getting off topic here......but I must add that not only is the Bellingham Heritage Centre an absolute gem of a place, but it also has a wonderful cafe housed in an old railway carriage :)
http://www.bellingham-heritage.org.uk/
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Thanks Jen. My husband and I have decided to have a look at the centre one day so your input is very much appreciated. I'm very much looking forward to going now.
Lindsey
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Hi Lindsey,
I've been researching the Charlton family from Hott. It seems the Mary Baty nee Charlton that's been part of this discussion was living next to her nephew William Charlton at the Hott at 1841. He was the son of her brother John who married Mary Story. There parents seem to have been William Charlton who also lived at the Hott (wife Catherine?). Would you by now have any information about these people?
many thanks,
Noel.
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Hi Noel
Many thanks for your message. I haven't got the parents for Mary Charlton on my husband's tree yet as there are so many Charltons in the area and I didn't want to get it wrong. I did find a Thomas Charlton living in Hott who had a daughter Mary, in the year that matches her's on the 1841 census but there were others too.
It was very interesting to know that William living next door was her nephew and that she had a brother John so I am going to see what I can find out now with this information. You said you have William as her father and Catherine her mother which seems a good bet as Mary's first daughter was Catherine. If you have any other information, I would love to hear as my husband and I have found this branch quite frustrating.
Thanks Again
Lindsey
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I'm still working through, but this is what I have so far:
Generation 1
1825 William Charlton buried Greystead, Mar 4
1825 Catherine Charlton buried Greystead, Dec 22
Generation 2
1782 Mary Charlton born daughter of William Charlton, freeholder, at Hott
1782 Mary Charlton baptised at Falstone, Apr 21
1804 Mary Charlton of Falstone parish married Thomas Baty of Simonburn parish, Dec 6
- 1805 Catherine Baty born at Greystead
- 1810 Mary Baty born at Greystead
- 1812 Isabella Baty born at Greystead
- 1815 William Baty born at Greystead
- 1819 John Baty born
- 1821 Bridget Baty Born
1836 Thomas Baty buried at Greystead, Jan 23
1841 Mary Baty living at Hott Cottage, Greystead
1844 Mary Baty buried at Greystead, Aug 16
1784 John Charlton born son of William Charlton, freeholder, at Hott
1784 John Charlton baptised at Falstone, Feb 11
1789 Mary Story born daughter of John Story and Mary Scott, Apr 11
1789 Mary Story christened Falstone Presbyterian, Jun 7
1810 John Charlton married Mary Story, Simonburn Parish, Feb 17
- 1810 William Charlton born at Hott, Greystead
- 1811 John Charlton born at Hott, Greystead
- 1814 Edward Charlton born at Hott, Greystead
- 1817 Mary Scott Charlton born at Hott, Greystead
- 1820 George Rennel Charlton born at Hott, Greystead (Rev. George Rennell appointed St Lukes church Greystead, 1819)
- abt 1825 Catherine Charlton born at Greystead
- abt 1827 Christian Charlton born at Greystead
1825 Mary Charlton buried Greystead, Dec 8
1826 John Charlton electoral roll, Hott Greystead
1828 John Charlton buried Greystead, Sep 2
Generation 3
1810 William Charlton born son of John Charlton and Mary Story, Hott Greystead, May 21
1810 William Charlton baptised at Falstone, Jun 27
1816 Mary Laing Hall born daughter of Ephraim Hall, tenant at Heartburn, and Hannah Thompson, Apr 7
1816 Mary Laing Hall baptised at Harbottle, May 3
abt 1835 William Charlton married Mary Laing Hall
- 1837 John Charlton born in Bellingham district, Q3
- 1839 Ephraim Charlton born in Bellingham district, Q2
- 1840 William Charlton born in Bellingham district, Q1
1841 William Charlton living at Hott Farm, Greystead
- 1842 Henry Charlton born in Bellingham district, Q1
- 1846 Hannah Thompson Charlton born in Bellingham district, Q2
- abt 1848 Robert Charlton born
- abt 1850 Mary Charlton born
1851 William Charlton living at Hott Farm, Greystead
1852 William Charlton electoral roll, Hott Greystead
1861 William Charlton living at Hott Farm, Greystead
1871 William Charlton living at Elswick, Newcastle
1881 William Charlton living at Elswick, Newcastle
1887 Mary Laing Charlton died Newcastle district, Q1
1891 William Charlton living at St Andrew, Newcastle
1811 John Charlton born son of John Charlton and Mary Story, Hott Greystead, Nov 11
1811 John Charlton baptised at Falstone, Nov 25
1833 John Charlton married Margaret Bell at Greystead, Feb 16
- 1834 William Charlton born at Hott Farm, Greystead
- 1835 William Charlton born at Hott Farm, Greystead
- 1838 Edward Charlton born at Greystead
- 1839 Mary Jane Charlton born at Greystead
- 1840 Frances Charlton born at Greystead
1841 John Charlton living at Benthouse, Greystead
- 1841 George Charlton born at Greystead
- 1848 Catherine Charlton born at Greystead
1851 John Charlton living at Tarsethall, West Charlton
- 1852 Margaret Charlton born at Bellingham
1861 John Charlton living at Readmire, West Charlton
1868 John Charlton died Bellingham district, Q3
1871 Margaret Charlton living at Tarsethall, West Charlton
1814 Edward Charlton born son of John Charlton and Mary Story, Hott Greystead, Jan 11
1814 Edward Charlton baptised at Falstone, Mar 17
1833 Edward Charlton married Mary Patterson at Bellingham district, Q1
1817 Mary Scott Charlton born son of John Charlton and Mary Story, Hott Greystead, Dec 25
1817 Mary Scott Charlton baptised at Falstone, Dec 31
1840 Mary Scott Charlton married Matthew Dodd
* (born on Xmas day, baptised on New Years eve!)
1820 George Rennel Charlton born son of John Charlton and Mary Story, Hott Greystead, Jan 10
1820 George Rennel Charlton baptised at Falstone, Feb 22
Abt 1825 Catherine Charlton born at Greystead
1842 Catherine Charlton married Matthew Foster, Oct 15
Abt 1827 Christian Charlton born at Greystead
1848 Christian Charlton married William Turnbull
Happy hunting,
Noel.
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Hi Noel
Thank you very much for all this. We are having a quick look now although we are catching a train to London in a couple of hours but couldn't resist.
We have looked for the baptism of Mary Charlton that you have given in the Bishops transcripts and the Falstone records online but can't find it. The only one that comes up for a Mary Charlton is a baptism on 7th March, 1782 to Thomas and Ann Charlton. Did you get the information from the archives rather than the computer?
My e-mail address is Removed
Lindsey
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I found it on findmypast, a transcription from their 'Northumberland and Durham Baptisms' section. Claims to be compiled by the Northumberland and Durham Family History Society. I will send you the transcript.