RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pearly Queen on Saturday 05 July 14 08:22 BST (UK)
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I believe my grandfather Thomas ROWSELL was in one of the Devonshire regiments (photo attached)(i hope), I have been unable to find any service records for him on Military or Ancestry web sites. He was born 28 June 1886 in Exmouth, Devon and died 1 May 1934 in the Royal Devon & Exeter Hospital, his death certificate states the cause of death as "Extrinsic Carcinoma of the Laryanx", the family were told this was because of the gas that was used while he was at war. I have found that gas was used by the Germans at Hill 60 in Flanders and that some Devonshire regiments were involved. I am trying to find out which Devonshire regiment my grandfather belonged to and where he fought, and came in contact with the gas that caused his early death. Any help will be appreciated.
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Have you tried googling "Devonshire Regiments" because one of the sites will probably give details of what Regiments were where. Worth a try!
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Can you do a better quality scan of the cap badge? Could be Royal Engineers
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These are the only Thomas Rowsell MIC's.
None in the Devons.
Their cap badge was a 7 pointed star.
As Shaun said this looks like RE so could be the first man on the list.
Thomas Rowsell
Royal Engineers, Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Engineers 177407, 57839, 177407
Thomas Rowsell
Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 21465
Thomas Rowsell
Army Service Corps S2/015386
Thomas J Rowsell
Royal Field Artillery 50354
Thomas Seymour Rowsell
Royal Sussex Regiment SD/3004, G/6643
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I see the same suggestion was made on this Forcesreunited thread: http://www.forcesreunited.org.uk/forum/54866/99999/latest
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Thanks for your help, I assumed he was in the Devon's because of where he was born and lived and his uniform looked the same as others in pictures of Devon's. Please forgive my ignorance, I am female and not into military stuff. I never got to see the replies on Forces Reunited, I found their site very difficult to navigate so I gave up with them, actually I'm not much good with most technology. I know for certain that he is not #4 or #5 on the 'jim1' list. If he is one of the other's on that list, where would he have come in contact with the Gas? Do you know the next of kin for #1-#3, that may help me a little. I have service records for other ancestors but nothing for my own grandfather and without a service number it is very difficult to find out anything.
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About 60% of WW1 service docs. were destroyed in WW2 so the chances of finding him are slim.
If he's the RE above you will see this man was also in the Northumberland Fus.
The Germans used gas from 1915 on various fronts & would be impossible to say where he was at the time.
It's also worth remembering that gas is subject to wind conditions which resulted in men being gassed by their own side.
It's also worth noting that most men smoked ( actively or passively ) & is more likely to be the cause.
In 1934 smoking wasn't widely believed to be a cause of cancer.
jim
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Medal card of Rowsell, Thomas
Corps Regiment No Rank
Royal Engineers 177407
Northumberland Fusiliers 57839 Private
Royal Engineers 177407 Private
The National Archives, Kew
Reference:WO 372/17/111248
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D4970360 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D4970360)
Gas:
My grand uncle has been officer of the US Army Engineers, he has been specialist for gas protection, they had a laboratory, but they had also gas to use in the battle fields ...
Sappers and miners (Engineers) might have been in the first line.
Rudolf
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Welcome to RootsChat Pearly Queen!
Rudolf
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Thanks everyone for your help, I will check out the service numbers that 'jim1' has given me, and I may order the medical card that 'Rudolf H B' has given the link for, 'ShaunJ' I will try to get a better picture of the cap badge, and 'Rhododendron' thanks for your suggestion, I have already tried that. Thankyou you have all been great, glad I found this site.
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The info Rudolf has given is from his Medal Card ( MIC ) not his medical card.
There won't be any information about where he was only his service doc. will tell you that & even then it's only basic.
What his MIC does say is that he received the BW & Victory Medals.
This means he served in a theatre of war from 1916.
If he had gone overseas before that he would also have received the 14/15 Star.
jim
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Hi Jim1, thanks for that, (silly me can't even read properly) The #1 on your list is the only one that could be my grandfather. I have researched further, #2 was born in Yeovil in 1882 and lived in Somerset and was a Gardener, and he is the only one that I can find full records for, and #3 died 23 Oct 1916 according to his Medal Card. So if we presume that #1 on your list is the right one does that mean that he didn't go to war until after 1916, and does BW mean 'British War' Medal ?
Does the fact that the medal card lists his service numbers 3 time mean that he went overseas 3 times or was he away just once ? I think I had better Google 'Royal Engineers' and 'Northumberland Fusiliers' and see what comes up. Thank you for correcting me and for your time.
Pearly Queen (aka Janice)
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Thanks for your help, I assumed he was in the Devon's because of where he was born and lived and his uniform looked the same as others in pictures of Devon's. Please forgive my ignorance, I am female and not into military stuff. I never got to see the replies on Forces Reunited, I found their site very difficult to navigate so I gave up with them, actually I'm not much good with most technology. I know for certain that he is not #4 or #5 on the 'jim1' list. If he is one of the other's on that list, where would he have come in contact with the Gas? Do you know the next of kin for #1-#3, that may help me a little. I have service records for other ancestors but nothing for my own grandfather and without a service number it is very difficult to find out anything.
You would think that living in Devon would automatically place him in a Devonshire Regiment. However I have learnt not to make this mistake......for example I am currently researching the history of 13 soldiers who appear on our WW1 Memorial here in Brixton Devon and one soldier from our village was killed serving in the 5th Black Watch Battalion of the Royal Highlanders.
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It didn't necessarily follow that men volunteer/served with Regiments near where they were born or lived. Recruiting Offices for Regiments were found in different parts of the Country and of course a man could enlist with his "local" Regiment but then they were amalgamated or assigned to another Regiment. (Not sure whether I have expressed that too clearly but hopefully you can understand my gist!)
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It's difficult to work out from an MIC what's going on.
It looks like he attested RE but may have stayed in the UK.
He was then transferred to the N'land Fus. & went overseas with them as it's in this Regt. that his medals were reckoned from.
He was transferred back to the RE.
Could be wrong of course.
Which I am.I can see from the index it was in the RE that he was awarded his medals