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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Jeanette on Tuesday 01 July 14 04:36 BST (UK)
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Researching a divorce between John Watson Veitch and Margaret Stewart Veitch[nee Mcalpine].
They married in 1872 in Dunedin 16 April 1872. No further info on marriage cert.
John Watson Veitch remarried 1885 to Mary Wilson, he then died in 27 Dec 1888.
I understood divorce would be recorded on marrriage cert.
Where do I go to find out info.
Margaret did not remarry until 1917, by then John was dead.
Many thanks Jeanette
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Looking at the births online,Margaret may have gone astray as the last 2 of her children have fathe NR,I notice the last 3 children have a second christian name of Johnston,maybe he was the father
1874/47795 Veitch Elizabeth Watson/ Margaret Stewart/ John
1876/2636 Veitch Margaret Stuart Farquharson / Margaret Stuart /John
1877/11089 Veitch Thomas McAlpin / Margaret Stewart /John
1879/9585 Veitch Christina Johnston/ Margaret Stewart /John
1881/17701 Veitch Andrew Johnston /Margaret Stewart /NR
1882/16837 Veitch Annie Johnston / Margaret Stewart/ NR
Cheers Janette
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North Otago Times. TUESDAY, JANUARY 4, 1881.
John Veitch, charged on remand with deserting his wife and family at Dunedin, was further remanded unti' to-morrow.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NOT18810104.2.8&srpos=74&e=-------10--71-byDA---2John+Veitch--
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The Otago Daily Times. WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1882.
Mr E. H. Carew, R.M., sat at tho R.M Court yesterday to hear an application by John veitch for a variation in a separation order made in April, 1878, by Mr Watt. Mr Macdonald appeared for the applicant, and Mr A. Bathgate resisted the application on behalf of the wife, Margaret Veitch. After argument on both sides the order was varied the maintenance being struck out and custody of the children given to the husband.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ODT18820208.2.10&srpos=144&e=-------10--141-byDA---2John+Veitch--
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Hello...
It might be worth asking for a look-up of the 1885 ITM. An ITM will sometimes mention a date of when the bride or groom became a widow/widower. Maybe it does the same for a divorce.
Intention to Marry Notice (ITM) 1856-1956
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=494517.msg4544371#msg4544371 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=494517.msg4544371#msg4544371)
Regards
Beg
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Save doubling up on info
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=549043.18
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Many thanks for replies has been helpful.
Have traced 3 of the children Elizabeth Watson b.1874, Margaret Stuart Veitch b. 1876 and
Thomas Mcalpine Veitch b.1877.
Any suggestions in tracing
Christina Johnston Veitch b.1879
Andrew Johnston Veitch b.1881
Annie Johnston Veitch b.1882.
Father of these 3 children Christopher Johnston whom she moved to Auckland with and had a further 3 children
Cheers Jeanette
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Under the circumstances, I would not be surprised to find the kids just as "Johnston".
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ does show some records of them (seems Christopher did a runner around 1902/3? Did they stay together in the end?)
Here's the marriage of Christina, listed as daughter of Christopher and Margaret and granddaughter of "the late Captain McAlpine":
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0170v/
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Researching a divorce between John Watson Veitch and Margaret Stewart Veitch[nee Mcalpine].
They married in 1872 in Dunedin 16 April 1872. No further info on marriage cert.
John Watson Veitch remarried 1885 to Mary Wilson, he then died in 27 Dec 1888.
I understood divorce would be recorded on marrriage cert.
Hello Jeanette
I thought the names John Watson VEITCH and Margaret Stewart VEITCH (McALPINE), rang some bells. :D
I managed to find your previous thread (re: Christopher JOHNSTON / JOHNSTONE) where I'd given some assistance with that search and where the VEITCH name crops up also. (I think two threads on the subject have been merged).
So having read through the previous, I see that it was established that John Watson VEITCH (butcher) had died on 24 December 1885 and was buried with his (and Margaret's) infant daughter (died 29 April 1877), in a shared plot, at the Northern Cemetery, Dunedin.
[Just incidentally, the 1872 marriage at Dunedin to Margaret McALPIN [sic] records his name only as "John VEITCH", though I think we can be fairly sure (because of the burial with his daughter/ and also his funeral notice) that he was the same John Watson VEITCH who went on to re-marry in 1885 to Mary WILSON. ]
We also have a newspaper record of his formal separation (April 1878) from Margaret.
You may recall (previous thread) that I mentioned that if a divorce between the couple had taken place, then this would be endorsed (usually by way of an official stamp bearing the date of the Decree Absolute), on the marriage record. But of course the marriage record (certificate) you have, does not record a divorce.
My guess is :
* That there was no divorce.
* That John VEITCH (a.k.a. John Watson VEITCH) in fact committed bigamy when he wed Mary WILSON in 1885 - perhaps not knowingly - but did so on the basis that the formal separation agreement with Margaret (1878), "spelled" the end of that marriage, and allowed him the freedom to re-marry.
Yes, I think a good start is to request an ITM (Intention to Marry notice) for his marriage to Mary WILSON (1885) which may give helpful info. If not, then a copy (printout) of the marriage record, may shed more light ?
~ Lu
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Hi Jeanette,
I'll get the ITM for you on my next visit to Archives NZ.
Spades
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Thanks for all info. Delighted to have found the marriage of Christina Johnston. Will check further on papers past for other children. Has been difficult with no second names and common surname of Johnston.
No Christopher Johnston and Margaret Mcalpine did not stay together, it all ended badly in court, then Christopher took off to Hobart, ended up in prison not supporting children. He died in Hobart at the age of 89. Trouble seemed to follow Margaret Johnston where ever she went.
Cheers Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette,
Can you tell me where John VIETCH and Mary WILSON married, please? I'll need the location to search for the Intention to Marry notice.
Spades
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Hi there
I believe John Watson Veitch and Mary Wilson were married in Dunedin. I dont have the marriage certificate to be able to be sure.
Many thanks for checking.
Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette,
I'm sorry, but I can't find an Intention to Marry Notice for this couple in Dunedin. Using BDM Historical Indexes online I found that they married on 23 December 1885.
I checked the ITM Register back as far as the middle of October.
Spades
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Many thanks Spades for your time and effort.
Cheers Jeanette
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Hi Jeanette
There are three John VEITCHs recorded as Presbyterian Marriages in Otago Southland
VEITCH John 28y MATHIESON Elizabeth 21y 20 Jan 1890 Limeston Plains Western Southland
VEITCH John full age McALPINE Margaret Stewart full age 16 Apr 1872 Knox Church Dunedin
VEITCH John Thomas 29y WALKER Agnes Fitzroy 29y 3 Dec 1919 Knox Church Invercargill
I think Knox Church in Dunedin has retained all its Marriage Registers and it should have been sent a notice of divorce to be attached to the Marriage Register
McIvor & Veitch is a longstanding Motorcycle business in Dunedin Several John Veitch s also appeared in later generations in Dunedin
Signal
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Many thanks Signal
I do have the marriage cert of John Veitch and Margaret Mcalpine. Interestingly the Certificate states they were married at Morningside Dunedin, which was John Veitchs home. He died in 1888 in Dunedin. Very short marriage to Mary Wilson.
Cheers Jeanette
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Those days marriage at home was common but the Marriage Registers were kept by churches as they had been for centuries in Europe. Registry Office Marriage registers were a recent innovation then.
In NZ until quite recently (when Marriages became loose-leaf) The Primary record was the Church Register and signed copies of that entry were sent on to the Registrar General. At one stage the Certificates supplied to Churches lines were out of sync with Marriage Registers in use and Ministers who copied material across line by line could get caught out.
Signal
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Have you got these two John Veitches mixed up ? Both buried in Dunedin Northern Cemetery
Surname VEITCH
Forename JOHN
Age 63 Years
Gender Male
Date of Death Mon, 7 January 1884
Last Address DUNEDIN HOSPITAL
Funeral Director Geddes & Co
Cemetery NORTHERN CEMETERY
Location Block 97. Plot 11
Date of Burial Tue, 8 January 1884
Occupation LABORER
Place of Birth SCOTLAND
Date of Birth Not recorded
Notes Original reference:- N18840111
Place died:- DUNEDIN
also in this Plot THOMSON BABY 12 Hours, Burial, Died 7 Jan 1884
Surname VEITCH
Forename JOHN WATSON
Age 48 Years
Gender Male
Date of Death Mon, 24 December 1888
Last Address DUNEDIN HOSPITAL, DUNEDIN
Funeral Director Cole & Springer
Cemetery NORTHERN CEMETERY
Location Block 7. Plot 15
Date of Burial Thu, 27 December 1888
Occupation Butcher
Place of Birth LINLITHGOW, SCOTLAND
Date of Birth Not recorded
Notes Original reference:- N18881215
Years in NZ:- 26
also in this Plot VEITCH MARGARET STUART F 1 Years, Burial, Died 29 Apr 1877
Signal