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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: karenmurphy90 on Monday 30 June 14 17:34 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am very keen to find out as much information as I can about the Hogan family who lived in Deptford.
I have some information in that Denis Hogan, a nightwatchman married Rosannah Peacock. I know they had children by the names of Rosannah, Julia Rose, James, Clara, Louisa and Honorah. I am particularly keen to find out as much as I can about Julia Rose Hogan who married John Wilkins in 1901. From what I understand Julia had a daughter Rose Wilkins (my grandmother). Julia died in childbirth a couple of years later and my grandmother was brought up by one of Julia's sisters - Rosannah. I have no information at all on John Wilkins who married Julia Hogan in 1901 - can anyone help please.
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Hi for all those wishing to help, the family are in Deptford 1891, Julia Rose aged 17 b Deptford, RG12/496/62/12
Keyboard86
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. I have no information at all on John Wilkins who married Julia Hogan in 1901 - can anyone help please.
The marriage gives a start -
28 Sep 1901
Bermonsey St James
John Wilkins 29 bachelor Holder-up of 20 Nectingle? Father John Wilkins Drill? Labourer
To
Julia Rose Hogan 28 spinster same address father Dennis Hogan Nightwatchman
Both signed
Witnesses William Jones and Rose Hogan
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Possible
1881
Hughes Fields, Deptford
John Wilkins 47 Engineers Duller bn Exeter Devon
Harriett 30 bn Southseal? Devon
Jane 11 bn Erith Kent
John 9 bn Deptford
William 6 bn Deptford
Mary A 4 bn Dept.
Thomas 9 mths bn Dept.
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Thank you for this information. I did have some of this, but not all. I dont really know where to go with what I have as I am new to all this. I have traced John Wilkins via a 1911 census and it looks as though he was either in a workhouse or infirmary at that time in Varnbrugh Hill, Greenwich. He played no part in the upbringing of his daughter after his wife died. His daughter Rose was looked after by her aunt Rosannah
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Thank you Liz - I am sure that this must be the John Wilkins I am looking for - where do I go with this information to try and get more information?
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In 1901 the Hogan family were in Deptford. Interestingly this shows that Dennis Hogan, Julia Rose's father -- was born in Iceland (with Denmark in brackets) -- unless I have mis-read this.
RG13/523/167/35
These names and the names of her siblings sound Irish --- maybe Dennis was the son of an Irish soldier or something.
You could track both families back through census records --- on the www.familysearch.og site the transcriptions are free -- however you could buy a subscription from a site such as Ancestry and work your way backwards. I promise you will have hours of fun!
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Thank you Liz - I am sure that this must be the John Wilkins I am looking for - where do I go with this information to try and get more information?
Im not sure yet if it is the right one or not!
Here is that one in 1891
Hughes Fields
Harriet Watkins 40 widow bn Devon
John 19 general labourer bn Erith
William 16 bn Deptford
Mary Ann 14
Thomas 10
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Welcome to Rootschat, Karen
You say you are keen to find out about Julia Rose - what do you already have and what are you looking or?
You have her family and now her marriage here.
Here is Rose's baptism - do you have this?
Deptford St Paul
Born July 12th 1902 baptised 3rd August 1902
Rose daughter of John (labourer) and Julia Wilkins, 33 Milton Court.
regards
heywood
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Sorry -- the website should read;
www.familysearch.org
From the home page go to Search - then Records -- then go down the page to 'United Kingdom and Ireland' -- select England --- then tab down the results until you find each census. Always work backwards. -- From the most recent backwards I mean.
See how you go and don't hesitate to come back with any queries.
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Hello Heywood, Yes I have Rose's baptism certificate and her marriage certificate to John Wilkins.
I know that Julia Rose died in childbirth of her second child - we think a couple of years after Rose was born, so circa 1904 but I cannot find any record of her death. I know that John Wilkins, was registered on the 1911 census as being a 'patient' at Varnbrugh HIll, Greenwich - not sure what that means - possibly a workhouse or infirmary??? Once Julia died, Rose Wilkins was cared for by her aunt Rose (Rosannah) Hogan and John Wilkins played no further part in her upbringing but no one seems to know why.
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Thank you Pennines - it is certainly grips you once you get started
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Death
Jan/Feb/Mar 1904
Greenwich
Ref 1d 699
Julia Rose Wilkins
Age 30
To order a copy of the cert go to www.gro.gov.uk
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You beat me to it Liz!
Karen you can send for that death certificate if you want to see it --- from the General Register Office in Southport. You can order on line -- it will arrive in about a week. Cost £9.25 if you are in the UK.
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Thank you everyone.
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Hi, if the John Wilkins shown on the 1911 is yours, then he was ( going on your address) in the Greenwich Union Infirmary ( Poor Law Infirmary)
Keyboard86
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In 1901 the Hogan family were in Deptford. Interestingly this shows that Dennis Hogan, Julia Rose's father -- was born in Iceland (with Denmark in brackets) -- unless I have mis-read this.
RG13/523/167/35
These names and the names of her siblings sound Irish --- maybe Dennis was the son of an Irish soldier or something.
it is clearly Denmark in brackets on 1901 (which would make sense as Iceland was a Danish possession at the time) but on previous censuses back to 1871 Denis is b Ireland
this is his marriage - spouse is Rosannah Peacock (they have a Peacock sister in law with them in 1871, and their daughter Rosannah's middle name is Peacock)
Denis Hogan
Apr-May-Jun 1870
Greenwich Vol 1d, p 1030
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What I am desperate to find out is what happened to John Wilkins after his wife Rose's death in 1904 - given that he was in the Greenwich Infirmary in 1911 - I would love to know when he died and where he was between 1904 - 1911?
What was a poor law infirmary keyboard?
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There is quite a bit of information if you search for it re the hospital and workhouse.
From what I have read - by a poster elsewhere - Vanbrugh Hill may have been the hospital rather than the workhouse.
This is one example http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/greenwichdistrict.html
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There is this death:
June 1922 Greenwich 1d 1074
John Wilkins 51 yrs
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Hi Karen,
The country was divided into Poor Law Unions --- but I think John Wilkins was just in the Infirmary as a patient --- it doesn't say 'inmate'. (Many Infirmaries were part of a Workhouse -- and if they were admitted simply because they were in dire financial straits -- they would be described as an 'inmate'.
This may just be a coincidence -- but a John Wilkins aged 49 died in Greenwich Union Infirmary on 9th May 1922 - due to Tuberculosis/Phthisis. Home address at that time was 17 Barnes Terrace, St Pauls. (This record amongst the London deaths on Ancestry). He is about the correct age.
I don't know if this is your John -- as there is no other information.
If you think about it --- it was extremely difficult for a widower to hold down a job AND look after young children. Many remarried very quickly to solve the problem. If John didn't remarry -- the children were probably taken in by the relative just for convenience sake -- he would need someone to care for them.
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I wonder if that is the same John W as the death reference I posted. The age is slightly different but otherwise it matches.
I also agree with Pennines' latest post re a widower's circumstances.
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Thank you Pennines - it may well be him - hard to tell - although other family members seem to think that John died considerably earlier than the date you mentioned. John gave up care of his daughter Rose (my grandmother) immediately after his wife Julia's death. Julia's sister Rosannah (Rose) cared for his daughter.
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Thank you Heywood - you will see that I have explained that John gave up care of his daughter Rose immediately!
My mother seems to recall being told that John died considerably earlier than the date you have mentioned again this may make sense as he was in hospital 1911 but no death records for then?
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Hi Karen,
I couldn't see a death record around 1911, and just after -- for a John Wilkins of the correct age.
If he just disappeared out of his daughter's life due to work and ill heath -- how would the family know he had died? They may have assumed.
You could try looking for him in the archive newspapers on line -- just in case he gets a mention -- but you would need to purchase some time. I think you can purchase a couple of days for about £6.00 -- maybe someone else knows better about that.
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Yes they are vague as to when he died and his daughter had no contact with him. However they were told he died of TB which does tally with the information already given.
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That is interesting Karen.
If he did die from TB - as per the one on the record -- then he probably suffered from it for some time, (sadly).
If I remember rightly (and I don't always!!) -- it used to be called 'Decline' -- which seems to indicate that people suffered with the condition for a while.
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It may very well be him - I wonder what he did after he gave Rose up in 1902 until he died - would he appeared in any other census after 1911?
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Karen,
The censuses cannot be viewed until 100 years has elapsed, hence 1911 is the most recent one open to the public.
He may have appeared on electoral rolls though -- although he may just have lodged somewhere. The electoral rolls are viewable. They don't give much information though -- so you wouldn't be given his occupation or his circumstances.