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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Infobunny on Friday 20 June 14 11:42 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Infobunny on Friday 20 June 14 11:42 BST (UK)
Hi there everyone,

Charles Henry Cramp died in Parramatta on 2 January 1893, aged 55.  Can anyone find where he is buried?

Death notices posted in New Zealand by his daughter also state his name to be Claus Henry Kramp - which is good because that helps provide another direction to finding his birth, parents, etc.  Although the Henry could be Heinrich or some other German equivalent if his first name was Claus.

It is quite possible that he was born around 1837-8 to match his date of death, and it is also quite possible that he emigrated to Australia on the Beausite in 1866 as a Kramp but I don't know the name of his wife for sure and his daughters that are known were named Christina Roseanne and Cecelia Mary.

Charles and possibly his child/ren came to New Zealand at some point for his daughters to marry, and then at some point he left for Australia where he died.

I can trace his two daughters in New Zealand, but not Charles/Claus's life.  I'm hoping wonderful people on the Boards can help me with any scraps of info.

Cheers,
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 20 June 14 12:45 BST (UK)
Arrived QLD on the Beausite 20 Aug 1866:

KRAMP Claus 30yrs
KRAMP Dorothea 28yrs
KRAMP Christiane 4yrs

http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Beausite_1863_1866_QSA_Item_ID_18474.pdf
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 20 June 14 13:06 BST (UK)
Beausite departed Hamburg, Germany 18 May, 1866 arrived Moreton Bay, Queensland 20 August, 1866:

KRAMP Claus 30yrs - male
Town: Tangstedt
State: Holstein
Occupation: Arbeiter (workman)

KRAMP Dorothea 28yrs - female
Town: Tangstedt
State: Holstein

KRAMP Christiane 4yrs - female
Town: Tangstedt
State: Holstein
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 20 June 14 13:37 BST (UK)
CRAMP.—On August 11, after a long and painful illness, Mrs Dora Cramp, native of Hamburg, Germany, Aged 60. Interred this day at Waikumete.

At Waikumete Cemetery
CRAMP Dora 63y  widow d. 11 Aug 1900
WOODWARD Christina Rosanna 61yrs widow d. 13 Jun 1913


Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Essie on Friday 20 June 14 13:38 BST (UK)
A daughter born at sea and named after the ship!
1866 M522
Beausita Maria KRAMP
PARENTS - father's name confused.
Hans Hinrich & Marie Dorothea TIMMERMANN

Essie
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 20 June 14 13:39 BST (UK)
There were two births during the voyage one which appears to be your family as they were the only KRAMP's on the Beausite.

Marine birth registered:

Beausita Maria KRAMP b. 6 July 1866 #522MARINE
Father: Hans Hinrich KRAMP
Mother: Marie Dorothea TIMMERMANN
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 20 June 14 14:07 BST (UK)
QLD Electoral Rolls 1877 & 1878:

1877 KRAMP Claus Freehold, Kent St, MARYBOROUGH, QLD.

1878 KRAMP Claus Freehold, Kent St, MARYBOROUGH, QLD.
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 20 June 14 14:17 BST (UK)
Maryborough Chronicle 7 January 1873:

German Lutheran Church Redemption Fund - C H KRAMP

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article148331750
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Infobunny on Saturday 21 June 14 02:54 BST (UK)
Dear Merlin, Essie and Wivenhoe,

How wonderful you all are!!!  It's simply amazing just how you can find little bits and pieces of information!

I had seen the death notice for Dora but still am not sure if she is related or not.  I like that no-one can seem to get their stories straight between the death notice of her being 60, and the cemetery details of her being 63.  I will see if I can get further on that one.

I guess the real problem is that I don't know enough about Charles/Claus to make sure of just who he is related to.  His death notice in the SMH in 1893 did not list any family.....boo!  I also don't know if he had a daughter called Christiane as I can't seem to find her anywhere else other than the Beausite list.

I will be sure to keep digging on all of your suggestions, though!  Very much appreciated.

Any Sydney-siders got any clues as to where Charles may be buried?  He's not at the main Parramatta Cemetery that is found online.

Cheers,
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Essie on Saturday 21 June 14 06:14 BST (UK)
Hi Bunny

The variation in spelling of German names was very common. Dora and Doris were the short version of Dora(o)thea.  Christiane or Christina are versions of Christine.  In fact German girls names ending with ......ine were pronounced in German as ......ina.

NZ death Index has Christina aged 51y which matches her age on the passenger record.
1913/2921
Christina Rosana  WOODWARD 51Y


Essie
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: rosball on Saturday 21 June 14 06:59 BST (UK)
Marriage notice for Christina
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=THA18800423.2.4&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----0Cramp+Woodward+christina--

Regards
Ros
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Katharine75 on Thursday 26 June 14 14:39 BST (UK)
Hi. Possible that Charles Cramp was buried at ROOKWOOD cemetery which is a very large cemetery in the outer suburbs of Sydney. A lot of people were buried there. They do have online search engines for some denominations.
His death is registered with parents both listed as 'unknown', so perhaps he didn't have any family with him at time of death.

Link to article in Evening News, indicates he was sick for two years. Possibility he died in a hospital or institution, and the death record might have been filled in by staff.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113737889?searchTerm=charles cramp&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-decade=189|||l-year=1893|||l-state=New+South+Wales

The State Archives NSW could possibly hold a probate record / deceased estate record for him which could give more details. You could post a request for someone going to the reading rooms to have a look for you.

Hope this helps. Katharine.
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 28 January 16 00:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Bunny

I took a look if I could find your Claus in Holstein. I do believe I have.
Here he is in the 1840 Census with parents in Tangstedt Parish:

http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4815376


Ian



Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 28 January 16 00:40 GMT (UK)
Also, the emigration records from the Holstein database:

Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: majm on Thursday 28 January 16 00:52 GMT (UK)
Charles Henry Cramp died in Parramatta on 2 January 1893, aged 55.  Can anyone find where he is buried?

The burial information, including the cemetery will be on the death certificate.  There's a 1893 death registered for the Parramatta district (included in 1893 far more than just Parramatta) at NSW BDM.

Charles CRAMP, no parents names displayed on the index. # 11661

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/113737889 5 Jan 1893 Evening News
(Charles H Cramp, 55 years, two years suffering, Auckland papers please copy)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Infobunny on Thursday 28 January 16 09:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian and JM,

Ian - You just may have cracked it!  I never knew about that Danish family site.  I will definitely go and have a look to see if even his wife is to be found there.

JM - Thank you kindly for your information.  It's much appreciated and I will put it against the other information I have received concerning the burial place.

Much, much gratitude to you both.

Cheers,
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 28 January 16 09:22 GMT (UK)
Cheers.

I have had a look but I wasn't successful. I presume her maiden name was Timmermann?

Ian
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: Infobunny on Thursday 28 January 16 09:55 GMT (UK)
Do you know, I have absolutely no idea!!!!  ;D  Ha ha ha ha!!!

I'm busy looking through the site to see what else I can find.  Have not come across any marriages as yet.  Not sure if the site has them for me to check.  Can't find them on ordinary Familysearch to have a comparison.

Cheers,
Bunny 8)
Title: Re: Looking for Charles Henry Cramp aka Claus Kramp
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 28 January 16 10:05 GMT (UK)
I am not an expert on Holstein but I don't think there are birth, marriage or death records online.