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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: wilrob on Wednesday 18 June 14 11:21 BST (UK)
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hi
i have florence sophia proudfoot b1893 auckland durham there is a 1901 census with her parents george e proudfoot born durham and florence proudfoot born in london
now the problem i have is on the 1911 census she is with the perry family in liverpool and it states she is the step daughter
thomas franklin and sara franklin now saras maiden name was levi she married a perry then thomas franklin
thomas franklin was also previously married to isabella thorpe
i cannot find where florence fits in there was a marriage of a george e proudfoot to a sara florence perry in durham but i havent looked into that so far i just need to tie florence sophia in and i am getting in a right old muddle any help to unraffle this would be great ???
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Marriages Jun 1892
PERRY Sarah Florence Auckland 10a 267
PROUDFOOT George Edward Auckland 10a 267
Births Dec 1892
Proudfoot Florence Sophia Auckland 10a 244
Census 1901 the family are together. George E age 48, b Durham. Florence 42, b London. Florence dau b Durham age 8
In 1911 Florence b 1893 is stepdau to head, so that makes 'wife' Sarah Florence b London, alias Proudfoot, alias Perry, nee maybe Levi daughter. (Sarah Florence is prob still Proudfoot ?)
Cannot find a marriage for Proudfoot/Franklin in timeframe or suitable death age wise for George E. So think they are living together and combined family.
She also has a Perry son with them from poss first marriage as well as dau Florence Proudfoot from second marriage. The rest are Franklin children.
Hope this helps
Cas
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thank you but the problem being i know sarah levi didnt have the florence in it,sarah perry married thomas franklin 1905 toxteth park liverpool
her first husband joseph patrick perry died 1904
someone messaged me asking about thomas franklins wife sarah perry (levi) i wasnt aware sarah had married a thomas franklin this is how this has came about ???
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So do you have Sarah Perry, nee Levi.. and family.. husband Joseph and son Alfred Edward Perry and/or marriage or 1901 census to prove. RE: 1911
Maybe she remarried T Franklin as Perry and discounted the Proudfoot possibly while still married ???
The Perry, Proudfoot, Franklin family are together in 1911. Not common surnames together in one household unless history. Step children to head are Perry and Proudfoot, so are the said 'wifes' children.
Do you have the correct Sarah Levi?
Think only way to prove/disprove is to get Florence Sophia birth cert
Regards Cas
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i this lady that contacted me has the wrong sarah perry some how because she would have to of married proudfoot after perry and before franklin
there is proudfoots on the other side of the levi tree and if you look at florence s proudfoot on the 1901 census there is a harry plant ...there also plants in the tree lol there is an emma gustava levi who married an harry plant so there is a connection its figuring it out x
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I do not follow info as/was given for original request. As have not viewed trees for the peeps you are on about. Seems to be we are going in circles.
Hope you sort it
Good luck and best wishes
Cas
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;D yes cas we are the family just seem to have numerous marriages or partners sarah levi came from a family of entertainers vocalists comediennes etc and just keep popping up everywhere i have e mailed the lady to ask her to double check things thanks for your help x
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Does not seem to be right family then.
Ok, thanks for info and as said good luck
Cas
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Have you found the other 'step child' on earlier census :-\
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Hi Rosie, looks likely the stepson is here.
1901 - RG13; Piece: 4653; Folio: 94; Page: 50
Crook and Billy Row, Durham
Registration district: Auckland
John Proudfoot 53 wid, Westgate, Durham
Minnie Proudfoot 15 dau Crook, Durham
Alfred Perrey 11 visitor b Porkmouth, Hampshire (Portsmouth)
Births Mar 1891
PERRY Alfred Edward Portsea 2b 486
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Thanks Cas
I had tried to find him in 1891, hoping he was with his parents but no such luck. I'll keep trying.
Rosie
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yes rosie thats the stepson in durham i was hoping the same that he would be with his parents buts nothing is simple in this tree lol thanks so much x
the lady thats enquiring about it sent me the marriage cert of sara perry and thomas franklin and she defo my sara levi theres not many vocalists called sara levi her first husband perry was also an entertainer ....i have been looking for her first husbands family knowing his father was william perry and also trying to find sara in the 1901 census there was one in a workhouse but i lost it lol x
sara wasnt with her first husband joseph patrick perry in the 1901 census as he is in wales visiting he also died in wales x
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When was the last census you had Joseph and Sarah together, do you have refs?
Also did they have any children? With Joseph in Wales in 1901 and there at his death in 1904, the couple were obviously separated.
It seems that you may have a bit of bigamy going on when she married Proudfoot? Maybe that is why she married as Perry to Franklin. There is also a 13 yr age gap.
Why would she have a dau Proudfoot, if you are sure the 1911 census is your Sarah?
Also maybe Alfred Perry is not Josephs son but was registered under Perry as she was married. When did you last have her and her first husband together?
Also marrying as Sarah Florence, and 1901 as Florence, maybe she was covering as knew it was bigamy?
Just a few thoughts.
Cas
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oh deary me there must of been something in the water with the woman of the levi family lol this is what i have
1881 England Census about Patrick Perry
Name: Patrick Perry
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Sarah Perry
Gender: Male
Where born: Newcastle, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 166 Stamford St
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
.
Occupation: Vocal Comedian
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road First
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 583
Folio: 57
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Perry 24
Sarah Perry 22
Isabella Perry 2
William Edwd. Perry
James Sullivan 19
Charles Ashill 22
he is using his middle name on this census
Perry, Joseph Patrick in your tree "levi Family Tree" Remove
1891 England Census about Patrick J Perry
Name: Patrick J Perry
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
.
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2918
Folio: 31
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Blacklock 59
Agnes Blacklock 23
George Chalk 24
Wm Blacklock 26
Lily Hozergue 7
Fred W Chalk 1
Patrick J Perry 35
Alfred G Allan 38
so they were last together on the 1881 census and they only married in 1876 there is something i am missing and its looking right me unless as well its all wrong if only i could find sara on the 1891 and 1901 census also going off her sister annie who had an affair whilst married she didnt marry the other man till her husband died x
the children according to the census of joseph p perry and sarah were
Joseph Patrick Perry
1856 – 1904
Isabella Perry
1878 –
William Edward Perry
1880 –
Patrick Joseph Perry
1883 – 1957
Alfred Edward Perry
1891 –
isabella perry seems to have a few children with no father mentioned
John William Perry
1898 –
Alfred Edward Perry
1903 –
George Charles Perry
1905 –
James Stanley Perry
1910
then she married 1914
hope all this you understand x
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Cannot find a connection to Sarah and 1881 children in 1891, Alfred Edward should be on census as reg first Qtr ??? Maybe she was living with another and took their name? Maybe missed or census missing.
Not much help thou
Cas
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i know cas its got my eyes rolling around my head ;D
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i know cas its got my eyes rolling around my head ;D
Ditto :P
Patrick Joseph Perry
1883 – 1957 Where was he born?
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i dont have a lot on patrick j perry only that it states liverpool ...i cannot find him either before 1911 but there is a few family trees done on him which i have been trying to check out as the parents are different x
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Think the only way you are going to solve this is your 'Sarah' is to obtain both birth certs of her children from 1911. 1891 will maybe forever remain a mystery.
I am sure the 1901 and 1911 extracted info posted are the same woman. There are so many clues. But if you have confirmation her maiden name was Levi on marriage to Franklin, then the 1911 children with her as mother, would have that on birth certs.
Also discount any info on another tree, unless you verify as yours, and can confirm it fits.
Just curious, which of the Perry link is your descendant?
Regards Cas
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Hell There
I have not read the whole of this thread, but I do have the whole history of the family, which I researched several years ago. My son-in-law is a great great grandson of Sara Levi...but she was a naughty lady !!
This is a potted History.....
Sara was born 1859, in Chelsea, Her father was Elias Levi , a Glass cutter, The family were Jewish
She dies 03/06/1940 in Liverpool,( Sara Franklin ) she was also a twin. I have a photograph
She married her first husband Patrick Joseph Perry 25/09/1878 in Liverpool and had several children together, Isabella , William and Patrick jnr. However she and Patrick both had affairs, and 04/01/1890, she gave birth to Alfred Perry at Portsea. Her husband is named as father, but this was not so. Patrick by this time, was in Llandudno, the leader of the Happy Valley Minstrels.
Sara married George E Proudfoot 25/04/1892 at Auckland Registry Office, stating she was a widow. Not true ! Patrick did not die until 13th September 1904, By this time he had two illigitimate daughters. Both became nuns. Florence Sophia was born at Auckland on 9th November 1892. Florence Sophia married Ernest Swift in 1920, at Liverpool, and died 1979.
George E Proudfoot died in 1905, and on 12th December, the same year, she married Thomas Franklin.
Her daughter Isabella, was also a naughty girl !! She gave birth to five children, outside wedlock, 4 in Barnsley, and the youngest in Manchester. The three elder boys spent time in Withington Workhouse. Their father was the husband of Sara's sister , Emma !!
I hope this helps. Please ask me any questions. I am not sure if I have all the certificates, I think I gave them to the family, when I finished researching.......
Kind regards
JeannieR
Ps on the 1891 census Sarah is in Leeds. Piece 3889 folio 33 page 14.
The whole of the information is badly transcribed. She is described as a butcher, whilst the butcher is a vocalist. Alfred is two years old, and has been given the name Louis ! By the way I have no idea why she started using the name Florence.
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sarah levi was great grand aunt who married joseph patrick perry her parents were 2nd great grandparents...........yes i do think the 1901 census and 1911 are her its just fitting it all together and the lady that contacted me i will get back in touch with as sarah i think was step great grandmother they must of been really strong minded woman to have all these men and husbands back then yup they had stamina lol x
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Hell There
I have not read the whole of this thread, but I do have the whole history of the family, which I researched several years ago. My son-in-law is a great great grandson of Sara Levi...but she was a naughty lady !!
This is a potted History.....
Sara was born 1859, in Chelsea, Her father was Elias Levi , a Glass cutter, The family were Jewish
She dies 03/06/1940 in Liverpool,( Sara Franklin ) she was also a twin. I have a photograph
She married her first husband Patrick Joseph Perry 25/09/1878 in Liverpool and had several children together, Isabella , William and Patrick jnr. However she and Patrick both had affairs, and 04/01/1890, she gave birth to Alfred Perry at Portsea. Her husband is named as father, but this was not so. Patrick by this time, was in Llandudno, the leader of the Happy Valley Minstrels.
Sara married George E Proudfoot 25/04/1892 at Auckland Registry Office, stating she was a widow. Not true ! Patrick did not die until 13th September 1904, By this time he had two illigitimate daughters. Both became nuns. Florence Sophia was born at Auckland on 9th November 1892. Florence Sophia married Ernest Swift in 1920, at Liverpool, and died 1979.
George E Proudfoot died in 1905, and on 12th December, the same year, she married Thomas Franklin.
Her daughter Isabella, was also a naughty girl !! She gave birth to five children, outside wedlock, 4 in Barnsley, and the youngest in Manchester. The three elder boys spent time in Withington Workhouse. Their father was the husband of Sara's sister , Emma !!
I hope this helps. Please ask me any questions. I am not sure if I have all the certificates, I think I gave them to the family, when I finished researching.......
Kind regards
JeannieR
Well there you go! :)
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JEANNIE BIG HUGS lol i knew they were all naughty ha ha i have sent you a private message Blimey sarah was naughtier than her sister which is hard to believe im sure everyones taking a deep breathe sayig thank goodness thats solved thank you everyone xxx
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New here and saw your post, thought you might be interested to know that Sarah Perry used the stage name Florence/flory St Louis. There are many newspaper records of her appearances which you can view or download. Happy to help more if I can,
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thank you so much tommy i will send you aprivate message ;D
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Tommy,
Thank You so much for that information, I didn't have it at all, although I knew she was quite well known, as was the rest of the family.
Sarah was my son -in-laws, great great grandmother. I am seeing him this afternoon, so will try and download some stories.
JeannieR
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Hello jeanie, nice to hear from you again and I am pleased to have opened a new door.
Regards Tom
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Tommy.
I have spent quite a while reading the various articles on Sara Levi aka Florrie St Louis, fascinating.
Thank you, it has really put some flesh on the bones. Are you related ?
Wilrob
If you need anything on this family, don't hesitate to ask, I have really researched into their lives.
JeannieR
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Jeannie have sent you a private message