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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 00:08 BST (UK)

Title: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 00:08 BST (UK)
Hello,

If a marriage is shown as Ashton under Lyne Civil Marriage on the UKBMD site, does that mean its Registry Office and the only way I can view it is to order it, or is there somewhere I can find the details?

Joan
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: andycand on Monday 16 June 14 04:48 BST (UK)
Hi

Civil Marriage could mean a Register Office marriage or it was a Registrar Attended marriage in a non-conformist Church. What year are you looking at?

Andy
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 07:49 BST (UK)
Hi Andy,

Agnes Scally married John Frain (e) in 1908 Ashton under Lyne 2nd quarter 8d 973.  Struggling to find John's correct parents as there are 3 couples that fit the bill.  It's a tree I am doing free for a friend.

Joan
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Huckleberry on Monday 16 June 14 09:39 BST (UK)
Check out Andrew Frain who married Margaret Hora/Horer(Sp)  in a civil marriage in Stoke on Trent in 1868.
Son John born 1881 Shelton, Stoke.
See: http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

1881 Census:

RG 11
2723
Folio:   73
Page Number:   27

18 Princess Street, Shelton, Staffordshire, England

Andrew Frain   36 Born Ireland
Margret Frain   36 Born Ireland
Mary Frain   10
Martin Frain   8
Maggie Frain   5
Anthony Frain   4
Annie Frain           2
John Frain    two months


Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 June 14 09:49 BST (UK)
Hi
Are these their children?

Mary Agnes 1908
May 1910
Bernard 1915
Kathleen 1922
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 12:49 BST (UK)
Hi Heather,

Yes they are the children. 

Hi Huckleberry,

Don't think it's that one.  He was born end 1877/ely 1878, got his WW1 pension record and worked out his correct age from that??
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 June 14 13:45 BST (UK)
Hello,
I can't see Agnes or John in 1911 indexes, but there is a Martin Frain in Ashton under Lyne
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW1L-L28

He would fit with the family Huckleberry found.

Is this John in 1911? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWHQ-1V6
There is an Agnes in same area.

Heywood
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 June 14 15:08 BST (UK)
We can discount the John Thomas Frain born in 1877 as he died in 1891
The only others are 
John born 1881 Shelton as mentioned above and
John born 1875 mother's maiden name was Beard
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 June 14 15:09 BST (UK)
John Frain married Bridget Beard in 1873 Wolstanton, staffs
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 June 14 15:15 BST (UK)
I think I'd go for Andrew and Margaret  :)
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 June 14 15:21 BST (UK)

Hi Huckleberry,

Don't think it's that one.  He was born end 1877/ely 1878, got his WW1 pension record and worked out his correct age from that??

He looks to be 32 yrs in 1915 so would be born abt 1882/3  ???
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 June 14 15:34 BST (UK)
2 more children
Frances Frain birth registered 1912 Easington Durham mmn Scally
John Frain birth registered  1913 Easington mmn Scally
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: missmolly on Monday 16 June 14 18:13 BST (UK)
Check out Andrew Frain who married Margaret Hora/Horer(Sp)  in a civil marriage in Stoke on Trent in 1868.
Son John born 1881 Shelton, Stoke.
See: http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

1881 Census:

RG 11
2723
Folio:   73
Page Number:   27

18 Princess Street, Shelton, Staffordshire, England

Andrew Frain   36 Born Ireland
Margret Frain   36 Born Ireland
Mary Frain   10
Martin Frain   8
Maggie Frain   5
Anthony Frain   4
Annie Frain           2
John Frain    two months

From http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

FRAIN Annie Mothers maiden name HORA   1879 Stoke-On-Trent   Staffordshire

Mo
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 20:16 BST (UK)

Hi Huckleberry,

Don't think it's that one.  He was born end 1877/ely 1878, got his WW1 pension record and worked out his correct age from that??

He looks to be 32 yrs in 1915 so would be born abt 1882/3  ???

Oh I thought it said 36 years   ???
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Monday 16 June 14 20:20 BST (UK)
Hello,
I can't see Agnes or John in 1911 indexes, but there is a Martin Frain in Ashton under Lyne
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW1L-L28

He would fit with the family Huckleberry found.

Is this John in 1911? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWHQ-1V6
There is an Agnes in same area.

Heywood

Yes Heywood, it's the right ones
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 June 14 20:22 BST (UK)
It does look then that Andrew and Margaret are very likely the right parents but as ever - certificates would be best.   ;)
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 June 14 22:04 BST (UK)
Joan,
Does your friend know if the family might have been Catholics?
If they were, I could try to check the marriage registers at the library in Ashton.

Heather
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 17 June 14 00:22 BST (UK)
I have checked the 2 main RC churches in Ashton and they weren't married there.
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Wednesday 18 June 14 07:37 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your help and ideas.  Looks like I'll have to leave the line for now and see if the family want to spend money on a certificate.

Joan
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 June 14 07:44 BST (UK)
It's only £9.25 if you order from GRO? ;D

Seems a small price to pay to get the information you need/want?
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Wednesday 18 June 14 13:00 BST (UK)
It's only £9.25 if you order from GRO? ;D

Seems a small price to pay to get the information you need/want?

I agree - but not my tree  ::)
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Wednesday 18 June 14 14:45 BST (UK)
Is this Agnes and her family in 1901?

3 Elm Street
Hanley

Sarah Scally  40 widow Cup maker
 Mary Scally  20
 Thomas Scally  15
 Agnes Scally  11
 Bernard Scally  9
 May Scally  4
 
2599/78/17/104

Agnes and John named their children
Mary Agnes after Mother and Agnes
May after sister?
Bernard after brother
Kathleen
Frances
John after John

Where do the names Frances and Kathleen come from?
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Huckleberry on Wednesday 18 June 14 15:05 BST (UK)
There are two trees on Ancestry - Agnes' parents are known. John is said to be born 14 Feb 1880 but I doubt that is right. All  indications point to him being born 1881 and passing away 1950 aged 69.

Both his parents passed away before the 1891 census.
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Thursday 19 June 14 12:54 BST (UK)
There are two trees on Ancestry - Agnes' parents are known. John is said to be born 14 Feb 1880 but I doubt that is right. All  indications point to him being born 1881 and passing away 1950 aged 69.

Both his parents passed away before the 1891 census.

Yes, that's correct.  It's not me with the 14 Feb 1880 (and that tree does not have his parents anyway)
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Huckleberry on Thursday 19 June 14 13:13 BST (UK)
Joan,

I did not think it was you, His birthday was probably 14 Feb 1881 which ties in with him being 2 months old at the time of the 1881 census.

Son Bernard (5-3-1981)and his wife Isabella (17-7-1998) are both on Tamesides Burial register but since they started to "update" it - it is a shambles - so John and Agnes may well be there but not showing.
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: heatherjulie on Thursday 19 June 14 13:29 BST (UK)
In Ashton Cemetery Grave I67 are
Are they your family?
May Frain aged 19 buried 3 July 1930
John Frain aged 69 buried 19th April 1950
May Lyon aged 1 buried 8 May 1933
Agnes Frain aged 47 buried 15 May 1937
Mary Agnes Lyon aged 92 died 22 June 2001 Cremated ashes in Grave
Title: Re: Are civil marriages listed at Ashton under Lyne records library?
Post by: Treelover on Friday 20 June 14 07:52 BST (UK)
Thank you HeatherJulie

Yep that looks like them. 

I agree about the TMBC burials website, used to be so useful now its a complete shambles  ::)

Joan