RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: garagecollective on Tuesday 03 June 14 05:21 BST (UK)
-
Hi friends,
To find out more about my great grandfather Thomas DAVIDSON b.1907 I started a New Zealand thread, which has now been completed: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=632236.0
Now I need help tracing my roots further into England. According to the 1911 Census Thomas' father was John Thomas DAVIDSON, aged 43, born in London, Chelsea. Working back from free Census records on familysearch.org I've located potential hits:
1881 [edit: ages were wrong]
John T DAVIDSON, age 12, birthplace Manchester, Lancashire
Father: John DAVIDSON, age 47, birthplace Manchester, Lanchashire
Mother: Ann Davidson, age 45, birthplace Manchester, Lancashire
Sister: Annie Davidson, age 9
1871
John T DAVIDSON, age 2, birthplace Manchester, Lancashire
Father: John DAVIDSON, age 37, birthplace Scotland
Mother: Ann Davidson, age 35, birthplace Manchester, Lancashire
Could someone please lookup Census records to clarify my searching? Also, knowing the date of death for John Thomas DAVIDSON, b.1868 or 1869 would help me order his death certificate, as would any other information.
Many thanks from New Zealand :)
Jared
-
Also, any info on John DAVIDSON, his father, would be amazing
-
Do you have the marriage certificate for John THomas and Annie Lister?
Specifically, was JT a bachelor? (He was rather old for a first marriage?! ::))
Marriage:
September qtr 1905
Chorlton district vol 8c, page 1636
Davidson, John Thomas
Lister, Annie
By the way - English death certificates don't hold any family information!
-
I have a little problem with the census' mentioned in that the trade given for John Davidson snr is shoemaker, so looked further for 1891 Census and found John snr, shoe/bootmaker living with wife Ann, son John T age 22, shoemaker and daughter Annie, 19:
John J Davidson (looking at original census it is John T)
Birth Year: abt 1869, Manchester
Relation: Son
Father: John Davidson
Mother: Ann Davidson
Where born: Manchester
Found John Davidson jnr on 1911 Census, different occupation to your John Thomas who married Ann Lister :-\ .
-
This might be Baptism record for John Thomas Davidson address 87, Primrose Street birth date 25 August 1868 baptized 27th September 1885 aged 17years Parish St Augustine Moresall father John occupation shoemaker mother Ann his sister Annie baptized the same day
-
Maybe a marriage John Davidson to Ann Byers 1867 Manchester Lancashire
-
1861 census Civil Parish Manchester Ecclesiastical St Peter
John Davidson Head 28 born 1833 Glasgow occupation Shoemaker
James Nicholson aged 18 Boarder
-
Thanks everyone. KGarrad: all I have so far is the 1911 Census record, as I've just started this research but not a paid member of any websites. What would be the best certificate/s to pay for?
The 1911 Census states:
John Thomas Davidson aged 43
Married
Occupation: Publishers Traveler
Son in Law to Ann LISTER, aged 77
There is an Annie Davidson aged 47, married for 5 years in the house, which confuses me as he may have had a sister of the same name, but she was younger. So I assume this is Annie nee Lister, daughter of Ann (same name as his mother?)
-
Thanks Rosie17, that looks promising. Do you think that matches up to the 1871 Census, which states Scotland as John Snr's birthplace? The birth date certainly matches other records
-
The 1911 census also states (as you previously said) that he was born in Chelsea, London.
Whereas in the other censuses his birthplace is Manchester? :-\
It's rather difficult for a Londoner to pass himself off as a Mancunian - and vice-versa?!
-
My geography is terrible, so thanks for that advice! Is it possible he gave incorrect details in the 1911 Census? Maybe he wasn't so honest, which lead to his son, my great-grandad, coming to NZ without him?
-
It's not the geography necessarily, but the regional accents! ;D
-
;D
-
Maybe the key is finding John Davidson (Snr) in 1891 and 1901 records?
-
1891 Census for both John Davidson has been mentioned in earlier reply.
The change in profession is a bit of a concern, John T jnr from something to do with bootmaking to in 1891 Census to the occupation mentioned in 1911 Census :-\
-
Thanks sgf28
-
Possible birth for John Thomas Davidson:
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1868
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DAVIDSON John T Saint George Manchester STG/105/8
-
Can anyone help shed more light on the birthplace of John Davidson (Snr)? The 1871 and 1861 Census point to Scotland (Glasgow in 1861 records):
1861 census Civil Parish Manchester Ecclesiastical St Peter
John Davidson Head 28 born 1833 Glasgow occupation Shoemaker
Thanks :)
-
Because I am getting so worried that we are all focusing on John Davidson, bootmaker, born Scotland and that it may still be the wrong path, and it's quite hard to keep up on all previous replies, here goes with what I think I've worked out:
The only thing that is certain is the 1911 Census with John T Davidson born 1868, Chelsea. Wife is Annie Lister.
Then I looked at the other census already mentioned and so briefly so that someone else maybe able to either confirm or dispel my doubts:
1861 John snr, born Glasgow, shoemaker
1871 John snr, born Scotland, shoemaker
John jnr, born Manchester, 1869
1881 John snr, born Scotland, shoemaker
John jnr, born Manchester, 1869
living Primrose St.
1891 John snr, born Scotland, shoemaker
John jnr, born Manchester, 1869, shoemaker
living Blossom St.
1901 John snr, born Scotland, boot/shoemaker
John jnr, born Manchester, 1869, boot/shoemaker
living Blossom St.
1911 John jnr, born Manchester, 1869, boot rivetter
Mother Annie, widow, born Manchester
living 9 Cowlishaw St. :-\
-
Thanks sgf28, it certainly looks as though you've clarified a lot. From that it seems they are a different family :-\ So where is John Thomas Davidson!
-
We could do with John T and Annie Lister's marriage certificate, then hopefully that will give a few pointers...maybe ::)
-
Is this a possibility? I know the middle isn't right, and we are out on the age but that wasn't unusual, but his trade fits!
John W Davidson
Born:abt 1863
Stoke Newington, London
Boarding in Richard T Giles home in Hackney.
Occupation: Commercial traveller.
Have had a brief free search on 1911 Census and cannot find anyone that matches those details yet :-\
-
Hi
I agree (sgf28), however
"The only thing that is certain is the 1911 Census with John T Davidson born 1868, Chelsea. Wife is Annie Lister."
We seem to have accepted that the Thomas Davidson who Jared mentions in 1911 is the correct starting point without double-checking.
Bearing in mind, Jared, that you are asking for help, how did you make the jump back to this particular Thomas Davidson? What actual documentation have you got?
Ray
-
Here's the 1911 Census record: http://issuu.com/garagecollective/docs/davidson_1911 (http://issuu.com/garagecollective/docs/davidson_1911)
It's the only one I've got in full. The rest were free index searches on familysearch.org, concentrating on the John Thomas' I could find. But where I must have gone wrong was not noticing that he was born in London, not Manchester like the rest of the family.
The Thomas Davidson listed in the 1911 Census came to NZ in 1920 with the Bateman's. This seems to match up to what we know of Thomas, my g,grandad, but he never said why he came to NZ or ever talked about his parents.
FreeBMD & Lanc BMD records a John Thomas DAVIDSON & Annie LISTER as marrying in 1905, Chorlton at the Registrars Office. There is a Thomas DAVIDSON birth registered in Chorlton in Jun Qtr 1907, which appears to match up.
However I should note that I haven't got a birth or death certificate yet for Thomas, which I'm in the process of doing. So its not proven that the Thomas on the 1911 Census is definitely my g.grandad...
-
What I know is that Thomas Davidson was born 20 May 1907 (at least that is what the family have assumed and what was on his funeral card). We have always thought in Lancashire, and the FreeBDM search for 1907 all districts seems to confirm this...
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
Thinking aloud about JTD - London + Manchester, "publisher"
Do you think he may have worked for something like London+Manchester Guardian? Daily Telegraph?
The wot?! :o ;D
It was The Manchester Guardian until 1959, and only moved to London in 1964!
-
Many thanks again everyone, this is very helpful.
It seems my job is to confirm that the Thomas on the 1911 Census and subsequent shipping records is my g.grandad. From there I can request a few certificates and work backwards.
Any tips on what certificates to buy, if you were in my shoes?
Thanks again!
-
Here's the shipping list from familysearch.org: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11675-180778-25?cc=1609792&wc=MP7V-PBM:119034101,119029902,119031403 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11675-180778-25?cc=1609792&wc=MP7V-PBM:119034101,119029902,119031403)
-
1901 Census search for John Thomas DAVIDSON with birthdate c.1868/69 on familysearch.org turned up two Johns, the Manchester we've possibly eliminated, and this:
John Davidson
Age: 32
Head
b. London
Can anyone see who else is with him, and his occupation?
-
1901 census: Class: RG13; Piece: 93; Folio: 47; Page: 57
37 Dorset Street, St John, Westminster
Davidson, John Head M 32 Draper's Assistant b London
Davidson, Mary Wife F 33 b London
Davidson, Jessie Daughter F 5 b London
Davidson, Alice Daughter F 13 b London
McCormack, Rose Sister-in-Law F 20 Domestic Servant b London
P.S. You aren't supposed to copy-and-paste information - because of copyright laws! ::)
You are supposed to type it out yourself (as I did above), because only the image is copyright, NOT the data?!
-
Thanks KGarrad, that just confuses me more :-\
-
.
-
.
-
Previous research on another thread notes Samuel and Sarah BATEMAN as traveling with Thomas Davidson. And yes, the lists are alphabetical so all Davidson's were grouped together, but with different destinations :)
-
Ray,
The other Davidson couple were going to Napier!
Nice town; I've been there ;D
On the same passenger list were:
Bateman, Mrs SW age 48 housewife
Bateman, Mr S 56 Farmer
-
.
-
The passenger list from NZ archives (as shown in reply 31) is indeed in alphabetical order! ::)
-
(The?) Another thread . . . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=632236.9
-
The other thread mentions the death printout from NZ BDM?
Did you get it?
What information is on it?
-
Hasn't arrived - life got in the way, and I only ordered it last week :-\ But will share!
-
Hi everyone,
Death Certificate arrived today! It confirms that Thomas DAVIDSON is the same Thomas mentioned in the 1911 Census, and on the 1920/21 Passenger List:
Father: Thomas DAVIDSON
Mother: Annie DAVIDSON (nee LISTER)
Born: Manchester
This means I can move forward with ordering his birth certificate, and the marriage certificate of Thomas and Annie.
Thanks for all your help.
-
Brilliant, now you have the two lines of family to research. You will get as addicted as the rest of us ;D
-
Great !!!! :) :)
-
Hi again,
Manchester records arrived yesterday!
John Thomas DAVIDSON, father of Thomas DAVIDSON (my g.grandad), was a widower when he married Annie LISTER in September 1905, in Chorlton on Medlock. His age was 38, occupation Publishers Traveller. His father was Thomas James DAVIDSON (deceased).
Any tips on where to next? On one record John Thomas states he was born in London, and in the 1911 he states Manchester, so I wonder if teh key is to research his father, Thomas James DAVIDSON.
Thanks :)
-
Hi again. I've ordered a birth certificate for a John Thomas DAVIDSON, Sep 1868 quarter, from the Manchester City Council. Hopefully that will be of use to me.
Could somebody please aid me in searching the 1871 Census? We're looking for:
John Thomas DAVIDSON, son, aged 3-4
Thomas James DAVIDSON (his father, no idea of age or occupation, but deceased before 1905)
Somewhere in Lanchashire
I have no money to access these online :'(
Thanks!