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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Chooch on Sunday 25 May 14 08:21 BST (UK)

Title: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Sunday 25 May 14 08:21 BST (UK)
Hi everyone

I have a James Hagger/Haggar who in 1841 census was 40, marr, Ag. Labourer, b. in County living at Copped Hall Cottages, Epping with wife Sarah also 40 ( acc. to this census also b. in County) children..
John 20, James 19, Stephen 16, Harry 10 and Jane 2. All born in County.

In 1851 James now 58, marr. Farm Lab., b. Coopersale Essex, wife Sarah 53 now appears to be born in ? Wiltshire. They are living at Copt Hall Yard with Stephen, Harry and Jane.
.
Can anyone make out the name of Sarahs birth place please? I cannot find a marriage for James and Sarah so have no idea who she is, or the birth of James so do not know correct age.


Your help would be appreciated, thank you.

Chooch
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 25 May 14 08:24 BST (UK)
Westbury, Wiltshire   :)
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Sunday 25 May 14 08:30 BST (UK)
Thank you Rosie, that was so quick and I can see that now. Just shows what fresh eyes can do.
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 25 May 14 08:39 BST (UK)
It's the area some of my tree come from  :)

This could be the birth reg of their youngest daughter
June qtr 1839   
Jane Hagger   
Epping    12   90   

 
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Sunday 25 May 14 09:06 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie
Yes that's correct for Jane. James and Sarah were my 3x grt grandparents and although I can trace their children I can't find anything before 1841 for them.
James and Sarah died 1858 and 1859 respectively with Edmonton Regs, which leaves me to believe they may have moved to Waltham Abbey area to be nearer son John, I know this is very close to Copt Hall and Epping.
I think I'll have to send for their death certs anyway even though they will not give me the answers I need, Aha! of course! Janes birth certificate should give me Sarah's surname shouldn't it? ::)

Thanks again Rosie :)
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 25 May 14 12:23 BST (UK)
Hopefully the birth certificate is the right one and should give mothers maiden name  :)  It would be more use than the death certificates.

Rosie
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: jennifer c on Sunday 25 May 14 12:36 BST (UK)
Baptism for Stephen Hagger 1/2/1824 Epping parents James & Sarah Vincent. (Family search.)

Jennifer
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: jennifer c on Sunday 25 May 14 12:42 BST (UK)
Just checked others -
John 31/1/1820  -   James 21/4/1822  -  Harry 6/9/1829 at bapt. Epping all give mother Sarah Vincent.

Jennifer
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 25 May 14 12:46 BST (UK)
I see that they are submitted entries on the IGI  :-\   I wondered how I had missed Stephen when I looked just now  ;D

Rosie
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Sunday 25 May 14 14:26 BST (UK)
Thanks so very much Rosie and Jennifer. The baptisms are a great find and now I also know Sarah's surname.
Here's hoping I can now find more about her and possibly the marriage, certainly I have more to go now so thank you both again.

Chooch
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 25 May 14 15:23 BST (UK)
The baptisms are a great find and now I also know Sarah's surname.

The IGI information is submitted (not extracted) so is probably right but is always worth confirming with original documents.  IGI submitted records are often suspect.  The marriage when it is found should hopefully confirm it.
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: suffolk*sue on Sunday 25 May 14 18:09 BST (UK)
All Saints Epping
24th January, 1819.
James Hagger
Sarah Vincent
both single and of the parish
by banns
witnesses
John Crow
Hannah Hagger
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Monday 26 May 14 01:36 BST (UK)
Hi Sue

Thank you very much, at last this brickwall has come down. I can't thank you,Rosie and Jennifer enough for all the help and the time given in solving this for me.

Chooch.
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: B Steve on Sunday 08 November 15 17:58 GMT (UK)
I enjoyed reading this conversation as James Hagger and Sarah Vincent were my daughter-in-law's direct ancestors, through their daughter, Jane.

Steve
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: amondg on Sunday 08 November 15 21:06 GMT (UK)
Parish Register, All Saints Church Epping (later Epping Upland)
Children of James Hagger and wife Sarah
John born 2 January 1820 bap 30 January 1820 (not 31 as in IGI)
James born 16 January bap 21 April 1822 name Haggers
Stephen born 5 January bap 1 February 1824 originally listed 25 Jan and the 2 scribbled over
Susan born 5 March bap 2 April 1826, Buried 7 July 1826 age 4 months
William born 19 June bap 29 July 1827 buried 18 October 1829 age 2 yrs. 4 mths.
Henry born 19 August bap 6 September 1829
Abraham baptized 9 August 1835 -Edwin buried 18 May 1836 age 10 months. Both are of James and Sarah Hagger, appear to be the same child with burial or birth recorded under the wrong name.
Jane  baptized 21 April 1839 no birth date recorded

None of the entries include the mothers maiden name.

There is also a William and Hannah Hagger having children during the same time period possible relative. 
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Monday 09 November 15 00:32 GMT (UK)
Thank you amondg for all the details, much appreciated.

Steve, I'm directly descended from John (1820), Janes brother.

Chooch
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: B Steve on Monday 09 November 15 18:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks for posting the details, Amondg, and apologies for saying my daughter-in-law's ancestor, Jane was James and Sarah's daughter, she was actually their grand-daughter b.c.1858 Theydon Bois, daughter of James and Sarah's son, James and his wife, Mary Ann (?Andrews).

Interesting about William and Hannah, having children in the same period as James and Sarah, as a Hannah Hagger was a witness at James and Sarah's marriage.

Thank you too for your comment Chooch. Did John (1820) stay in the Epping area?

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Tuesday 10 November 15 00:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve
John married Harriet Eliza Biggs in Epping 1843 and moved to Waltham Abbey, Essex where they continued to live and he died in 1878, Harriet died 1904.

Regards, Chooch
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Tuesday 10 November 15 02:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve
 I meant to add the only marriage I have found that fits for James b.c.1822 is  Mary Ann ( nee` MAYNARD) June qtr 1844 at Epping. His name is recorded as HAGGARD.
This does appear to fit with the birth of son James early 1845 and birth place ( Theydon Bois) and age of Mary in census.
The spelling of Haggar/Hagger varies so much.

Chooch.
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: B Steve on Tuesday 10 November 15 19:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the marriage. Being listed as Haggard explains why I didn't find it and why I wasn't happy with the James Hagger/Mary Ann Andrews registered much earlier in Saffron Walden, when they would barely have been of age to marry!

Jane b.c.1858 Theydon Bois m. Henry Price, Dec Qtr 1881 West Ham District (which includes Walthamstow) where they were living in 1891 Census.

Thanks too for the details of John and Harriet.

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: James Hagger/Haggar
Post by: Chooch on Wednesday 11 November 15 00:26 GMT (UK)
You are welcome :)

Chooch