RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: sherryludlam on Sunday 25 May 14 01:20 BST (UK)
-
Hi there,
I have just started on the genealogy trail, but have come up short with who my actual first Ludlam relative was to arrive in New Zealand.
I think it is George Ludlam, who arrived on a ship called Steinwarder in October 1864. He was 25 at the time. He was travelling with an Ellen Ludlam, who was 24, but I cant tell if she was his wife or sister as I cannot find any records that go further back. The use of the same name across multiple generations does not make this easy!
I also cannot find any records in NZ of these two living together, but did find a census record stating that an Ellen was married and living at the same address as Walter Ludlam. This was in 1919.
One family tree I found had a George as my great-grandfathers grandfather, and generally the dates work.
Does anyone know how I could find if George and Ellen were brother and sister or married? And fiind birth records for George?
Any help woold be great!
Thanks
Sherry
-
Hi all,
I have jsut started on this genealogy trail and am trying to find who my first Ludlam releative was to arrive in NZ.
I have found a George Ludlam who arrived on the ship Steinwaerder in Oct 1864, with an Ellen Ludlam. I do not know if they were married or brother and sister as cannot find marriage records or birth records.
I also can find no history of them living together in NZ, I did find a census record showing an Ellen Ludlam married to a Walter Ludlam in 1919.
Can anyone help me with this?
There is the possibility that George came from the Essex area in England.
Regards
Sherry
-
Hello Sherry,
Welcome to RootsChat.
We will all do our best to help you with you search.
In the meantime, I have asked a moderator to move your post to the New Zealand Board.
Regards
Jean
-
It appears that they must be married. There are birth for the couple in the NZ bmd
Parents as George and Ellen Maria
1872 Ludlam Ellen Margaret
1874 Ludlam NR
1870 Ludlam John Thomas
1867 Ludlam Walter Robert William
1865 Ludlam Maria Ann Maria
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
-
Wow! Thats impressive. Certainly has me confused tho, but will do more research based on that.
Thanks heaps!
-
I did find a census record showing an Ellen Ludlam married to a Walter Ludlam in 1919.
There was a Walter William Ludlam who married a Ellen Mitchell in 1912
NZ marriage index
1912/7312 Ellen Mitchell and Walter William Ludlam
The below link is for the New Zealand Newspapers .. Paperspast.
There are a couple of mentions of George and Ellen.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
-
That sort of makes sense, as Walter's first wife and a few of the children drown in 1910. I did wonder if he had remarried.
I now cant work out where that Alexander fits it - I think he was born in 1894, but there is no record in that BMD database, but he has children registered. I wonder if he travelled to NZ also and was born overseas. Another connection to try and find!
-
There was a James Alexander born to Martha and Walter
1892/1504 Ludlam James Alexander mother Martha father Walter
-
I think that is a different one, as the BMD records show that Alexander George and Caroline had kids from 1899-1904. I wonder if Alexander was the son of Maria Ann?
-
Oops - but then he wouldnt be a Ludlam! hmmmmm
-
Im getting confused ???
Exactly which Ludlams are you looking for?
-
Oops sorry. Yes, initially I was after George, so got that - awesome. This is how my line of the family got here, although still dont know about his birth or family details, but will keep looking on that. But when the BMD search was mentioned, I went and had a look at it, and found an Alexander George, but I am not sure where he fits in. I guess overall I am looking to track the ludlams in NZ to see how they fit in with me, and I just assumed that they all did somehow. I might be wrong.
-
The other possibility is that it goes like this:
George and Ellen Maria had Walter and John Thomas (and others).
Walter is my direct descendant, and John Thomas (his brother) COULD have fathered Alexander George, who then had Myrtle, Constnace, Elsie and Albert. Tight as far as dates go, but possible.
-
I guess overall I am looking to track the ludlams in NZ to see how they fit in with me, and I just assumed that they all did somehow. I might be wrong.
One thing i learnt with my family history is dont assume anything.
Rather than seeing where they fit in with you, just go with the flow. Walter been your direct ancester work with him first, then his siblings. You'll be surprised at what names crop up and fit the puzzle at times.
I cant find a birth for Alexander George ??? Is there any reason you think he is the son to John Thomas?
-
Marriage for Alexander
NZ Marriage
1898/1572 Caroline May and Alexander George Ludlam
I cant find a death index for him yet there is a probate package in NZ archives
LUDLAM Alexander George
1930 1930 Wellington High Court
edited to add ..
NZ Marriage
1898/1572 Caroline May and Alexander George Ludlam
Wanganui Herald, Volume XXXX, Issue 11829, 31 March 1906, Page 4
DEATHS. LUDLAM.— On the 28th inst., at Castlecliff, Alexander George, beloved husband of Caroline Ludlam, aged 30 years. Interment at Wellington
-
Haha - I am going to use the word assume again! My assumption is that he is a descendant of some sort of George and Ellens. And the only sone, other that Walter, is John. And other records I have found for Walter Robert William do not have him as one of his children. There are plenty of others, but not him.
Hence, my theory that he is John's son. But the dates are REALLY tight, so I may have it completely wrong. I think I might need to try to find another Ludlam coming to NZ from England (and not Alfred as he had no children).
What is a probate record?
Thanks for your insight so far! Sherry
-
Wanganui Herald, Volume XXXX, Issue 11829, 31 March 1906, Page 4
DEATHS. LUDLAM.— On the 28th inst., at Castlecliff, Alexander George, beloved husband of Caroline Ludlam, aged 30 years. Interment at Wellington
Ok IF i have the right death notice as above dated 1906 and he was 30 when he died that would make his birth around 1876 give or take a year.
Your John Thomas was born 1870 so impossible for him to be the father of the above Alexander.
OR am i confused again ;D
-
Hi,
Looking at my resources, Alexander George Ludlam is stated as being located at Taita Cemetery, I think this should be the Old Taita Memorial Cemetery, which isn't online to search and also being at the same place is Caroline who died in 1953 and Constance who died in 1920.
A Probate Record is a court order recognising a Will .... shows how the deceased left their estate to ... and quite often mentions children.
Cheers
KHP
-
Thanks! So now I am on the hunt for who Alexanders parents were, and who or when they came to New Zealand. Might not be related at all!
-
Parents as George and Ellen Maria
1874 Ludlam NR
The NZSG hold a birth certificate for a Alexander George Ludlam born on 15 August 1874 at Kakaramea, Patea.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
KHP
-
1874 Ludlam NR
The NZSG hold a birth certificate for a Alexander George Ludlam born on 15 August 1874 at Kakaramea, Patea.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
KHP
:o I never gave that 1874 NA a thought :-[
Many thanks for that. Dont you disappear on me cause im struggling with this one ;D I dont usually venture into the NZ threads much cause i dont know what im doing or where to look a lot of the time ;D
-
:o I never gave that 1874 NA a thought :-[
Many thanks for that. Dont you disappear on me cause im struggling with this one ;D I dont usually venture into the NZ threads much cause i dont know what im doing or where to look a lot of the time ;D
Could say the same on your board ;D Do have to disappear sometime to get food ;D :D
Are you playing ping pong with your light? ;D
Cheers
KHP
-
Are you playing ping pong with your light? ;D
Cheers
KHP
Nah just got that many windows open that i log out and close the window and find something else and come back ::) My kids have digs at me with the way i do things ;D
-
Sherry thanks to KHP the Alexander George mystery has been solved.
What else do you need?
-
EXCELLENT!!!!! and yes very excited, so am shouting!! What a connection. I assume NR means No REcord or Not registered?
So team, your next challenge - who are Georges parents??? I was told they may have come from Essex in England, but can't find them so far. if he was 25 in 1864, I estimated a birth year of around 1839.
-
There is a tree on Ancestry for the Ludlam's.
It states that George Ludlam arrived 15 Oct 1864 in Auckland on the ship Steinwaerder. With Ellen Ludlam. But it has Alexander George Ludlam as being born 1876
Cheers
KHP
-
Yes, I think you will find that is mine - with obvious mistakes!
-
Okey dokey no problem :D Would be interesting to see how many people who haven't made contact with you and copied the info. :)
Cheers
KHP
-
From a tree on familysearch
Ellen Maria WATSON
birth: 1840
death: 3 September 1913
Wanganui, Wanganui, New Zealand
burial: 5 September 1913
Wanganui, Wanganui, New Zealand
marriage: 28 January 1864
Capetown, Capetown, South Africa
-
I am amazed that it appears noone else has done this, or maybe they jsut havent made it public. I dont get many hints that arent from England or America!
-
YES!! That makes sense, as the Boat records had her from Cape Town! And would be why we cant find marriage records in NZ.
-
The Steinwarder brought immigrants from Cape Town, so there will be a South Africa connection.
http://tinyurl.com/kulyeby
This 1913 death announcement http://tinyurl.com/npqvngz for Ellen Helena Ludlam, relict of the late George Ludlam, may be relevant "Capetown papers please copy"
-
Per this passenger list, George Ludlam was English and a butcher, while Ellen was from the Cape.
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~grimason/New_Zealand/Steinwaerder.pdf
-
Linking to your other thread on this - I seem to have been wasting my time going over old ground
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=687890
-
linking to your other thread to avoid further duplication
topics merged
-
I seem to have been wasting my time going over old ground
Patience please. She is a new member only joining today. We were all new once.
-
Thanks Shaun - I am new to this so not sure what the protocols are. Thanks heaps for your input.
-
Maybe George Ludlam's death cert. might give some info up on where he was born, his parents etc. Depending of course on what the informant of his death knew.
-
Hi Sherry,
I have just merged your two threads together ;)
We can move threads on RootsChat if you need to change boards, just click on the "report to moderator" button and we can move if need be.
Regards
Sarah :)
-
Hi Sarah,
What does "marked as a sticky topic" mean?
And when you say "change boards" what does that mean?
Thanks
Sherry
-
There is a death notice in PapersPast for an Ellen Helena Ludlam,relict of George Capetown papers please copy
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0zhk/
BDM's
1913/6712 Ludlam Ellen Helena aged 74Y
The daughter Mrs J Quin
1885/1167 Mary Louisa Ludlam to James Quin
children
1885/6134 Quin NR to Mary Louisa and James
1886/10201 Quin Louisa Jane to Mary Louisa and James
1887/7122 Quin Walter James to Mary Louisa and James
Cheers Janette
-
I think that is a different one, as the BMD records show that Alexander George and Caroline had kids from 1899-1904. I wonder if Alexander was the son of Maria Ann?
-
I think that is a different one, as the BMD records show that Alexander George and Caroline had kids from 1899-1904. I wonder if Alexander was the son of Maria Ann?
-
Hi Oakleigh,you can change a post by clicking on the modify button, that saves you posting again,what are you trying to say ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
-
Will just have to be patient to find out :D
Cheers
KHP
-
Will just have to be patient to find out :D
Cheers
KHP
Yep,watch this space ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
-
Oopsy doo, I got my wires crossed...... deleted post. Some mothers do have them ;D
Cheers
KHP
-
Hi Sherryludlum, and welcome to RootsChat. ;D
A Sticky topic is one that the poster or Moderator has 'glued' to the top of a page so that appears above other posts on that page.
See http://www.rootschat.com/help/index.php
To 'change boards' is to move a topic from one RootsChat subject list to another.
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php for a complete list of the Boards by country and region.
If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask. We're all here to help, even the slighty batty ones :P, occasionally known to throw Jaffa's down the aisles ::)
Spades
-
If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask. We're all here to help, even the slighty batty ones :P, occasionally known to throw Jaffa's down the aisles ::)
Spades
Hmmmmmmmmm :P :P
-
even the slighty batty ones :P, occasionally known to throw Jaffa's down the aisles ::)
Spades
Takes one to know one ;D
-
:P
-
:P
Not often that you are left speechless :D :D
-
;D ;D ;D
-
:P I'm trying very hard not to hijack Sherryludlum's topic! ::)
-
Hi, don't know if this will be any help to you, but a Ludlam man was very prominent in NZ. He was a pioneer in the Hutt Valley, where I am from, and has a street named after him, (where some of his property was. I drive that street a couple of times a week, And in my school days, rode my bike to school. He was Alfred Ludlam, and who went on to become a member of Parliament. The street named after him is Ludlam Crescent. A lot of info about him also if you google Alfred Ludlam Lower Hutt history.
Link below will take you to a Wikipedia page, all about him.
Maybe one day this info will be helpful for you! Good luck.
Cheers
Jeanne
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Ludlam#Birth_in_Ireland
-
Hi there,
Yes I have heard and read plenty about him, but cant find where he is connected to my family. The first relative of mine to come to NZ was a George Ludlam. There are too many of them in the history records for me to be able to track back any further at the moment. I will get there one day I hope!
Regards
Sherry