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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 00:48 BST (UK)

Title: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 00:48 BST (UK)
I have a reference to an ancestor born at "Sudbury House" (in italics in the original), Harrow, in 1764.  His wife-to-be was apparently also born at "Sudbury House" - also in italics for her. Born 1765.  Does anyone know what this was?  I've tried various Google searches & most of the time I get estate agents!  :(
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow
Post by: Kay99 on Sunday 25 May 14 07:14 BST (UK)

The 1891 census lists a Sudbury House as occupied by Alex McLeod age 60 b Scotland Kirkcudbright a gardener and his daughters

Kay
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow
Post by: carol8353 on Sunday 25 May 14 08:24 BST (UK)

The 1891 census lists a Sudbury House as occupied by Alex McLeod age 60 b Scotland Kirkcudbright a gardener and his daughters

Kay

Sudbury House appears to be in a road called Sudbury Grove (Sudbury Hill) in 1891.
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 11:15 BST (UK)
 :-[  :-[  :-[ 3 embarrassed smileys! There should be more... and I must learn not to post in the wee small hours when brain stops working.  I have corrected the original post - dates were, in fact, 1764 and 1765.  Apologies to Kay & Carol for wasting their time - input was appreciated. A gardening midwife would have been interesting, however!
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: carol8353 on Sunday 25 May 14 11:21 BST (UK)
I knew the Sudbury Hill area very well in the 1960's as my gran lived there,but can't tell you much about it in the 1760's I'm afraid  ;D
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 11:51 BST (UK)
I've found a Sudbury House in Wembley (Harrow proximity) but it's a modern care home and was probably named after the road.  Looks like modern houses all round - unfortunately I can't view it on Google maps as they didn't film that section.  There's also one in Monroe county, NY and another in Derbyshire.
I'm curious about this detail as both he and his wife were born in this 'Sudbury House', at 1 year interval but 2 different families.
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: [Ray] on Sunday 25 May 14 12:19 BST (UK)
Hi

Worth making a note

1890 George sydney Waterlow esq is noted in the County directory


1841 Sudbury Hill House (is that one name for it?)
[ Middlesex, Harrow-on-Hill, District 4 HO107 / 657 / 3 / ..... ]
William Ferrer 46
Mary Ann Ferrer 36

follow the residences . . . .
Pest House
Sudbury Hill House (again) John Brown 70


Could that imply medical use before / after ?


Ray
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 17:59 BST (UK)
Hi Ray, thanks for info.  I found the 1841 Ferrer record - Sudbury Hill House seems to be for the well-to-do: 1 governess and 7 servants.  I can't work out his profession from the abbreviation. I've also found George Sydney Waterlow, living Sudbury House, 1890 Kelly's.  He appears to be listed as a Middlesex magistrate.  1891 census gives a Thomas Darness, schoolmaster, living at Sudbury Hill House, again with 1 governess and 6 servants.  I cant't find George Waterlow in 1891 census - perhaps he died and the house was then occupied by Darness (couldn't find his death on FreeBMD)? Unless there are 2 Sudbury houses, one with "Hill" and the other without.  I found a third on 1862 Stanford map but this was in Hammersmith.

I couldn't work out your "follow the residences...John Brown".  Nor why there might be a medical connection.

As for my ancestor, I don't know the profession of his father, but he did have his son educated at Harrow school, .  lf the house in question was the rather grand Sudbury Hill one, perhaps his spouse to be was the daughter of a servant??? (names are Winkley and Chappell respectively)

Not sure this one is going anywhere fast....

Cheers,
Ray
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: JenB on Sunday 25 May 14 18:14 BST (UK)
You can see a Sudbury House on this map of Harrow and surrounding areas: http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345946

Go to the bottom-right corner, then follow Sudbury Hill going north-west towards Harrow. You can see Sudbury Priory, then Sudbury Grove, then Sudbury House all on the north-east side of Sudbury Hill
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: Kay99 on Sunday 25 May 14 18:15 BST (UK)
This site may be of use. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22464

About half way through the report is a  section on Sudbury and the dates various houses were built. Sudbury Hill House is listed as being built in 1830 and Sudbury House in 1852

Kay
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 25 May 14 18:27 BST (UK)
The Morning Post (London) July 1805 advertised the sale of
"A freehold estate, consisting of a substantial mansion, called SUDBURY HOUSE, delightfully situated on Sudbury Common, one mile from Harrow on the Hill, and within nine miles of London..... in the whole about 12 acres"
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 18:43 BST (UK)
The Morning Post (London) July 1805 advertised the sale of
"A freehold estate, consisting of a substantial mansion, called SUDBURY HOUSE, delightfully situated on Sudbury Common, one mile from Harrow on the Hill, and within nine miles of London..... in the whole about 12 acres"

Do you have a link? I tried FindMyPast (574 hits) & Ancestry (0).  It looks like that may be the house in question.
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: JenB on Sunday 25 May 14 19:06 BST (UK)
The Morning Post (London) July 1805 advertised the sale of
"A freehold estate, consisting of a substantial mansion, called SUDBURY HOUSE, delightfully situated on Sudbury Common, one mile from Harrow on the Hill, and within nine miles of London..... in the whole about 12 acres"

Do you have a link? I tried FindMyPast (574 hits) & Ancestry (0).  It looks like that may be the house in question.

Have you looked at the map link I provided in reply #8  ???
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 25 May 14 19:20 BST (UK)
FindMyPast - you'll find the advert in the "Morning Post dated 20 July 1805 or 17 Sept 1805

Have found that an "Admiral T. Mathews" lived at "Sudbury Common", early/mid 18th Century. This may be "Admiral Thomas Mathews". But can't link him to a "Sudbury House"
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Sunday 25 May 14 21:45 BST (UK)
Apologies JenB, I missed your reply - I went straight to page 2 of posts and didn't see it  :o.  All the more "sorry!" given that not only is Sudbury House there but also Sudbury Hill House - that answers that question.

Thanks for the link & again apologies  :)
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: [Ray] on Sunday 25 May 14 22:15 BST (UK)
Hi

JenB's great map find shows that SudburyHouse is not SudburyHillHouse but is now covered by Clementine Churchill Hospital.

Julian Cottage is also on the census I mentioned.

Ray



Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: JenB on Monday 26 May 14 08:55 BST (UK)
Here's the present-day location http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=515312,186525

Click on the 1864 thumbnail map to the right, then click again in the very centre and you can see Sudbury House; you can follow the gradual alterations on the site and in the general area by looking at the other thumbnail maps.
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: JenB on Monday 26 May 14 09:01 BST (UK)
JenB's great map find

I found that via the maps section of the National Library of Scotland website.
http://maps.nls.uk/site-map.html#england
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Monday 26 May 14 12:19 BST (UK)
What a wealth of information!  Thanks for your time & patience.  I shall pay a visit to the National Archives in the next week or so to see if they have any records of ownership going back to mid-eighteenth century.  If you need a look-up while I am there, let me know & I'll give it a go.
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 26 May 14 17:06 BST (UK)
It might be worthwhile contacting Harrow Local History Centre

http://www.harrow.gov.uk/info/200070/museums_and_galleries/183/harrow_local_history_centre
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: estiman on Monday 26 May 14 18:15 BST (UK)
Will do, thanks.  I've found a Land Tax record for 1780 but not earlier.  He is definitely the owner of something in 1780 & not the tenant.

Cheers
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 26 May 14 19:04 BST (UK)
Have confirmed that "Thomas Mathews, late Admiral, Sudbury Common ..." (1748 ref) and "Thomas Mathews, Sudbury Common ..." (1750 ref) is indeed the Thomas Mathews, Admiral, dismissed the Navy 1746. He became MP for Glamorgan 2 Jan 1745 and switched to Carmarthen 1747.

He died 2 Oct 1751 and so predates your 1764 date. More significantly, unable to pin him down to Sudbury House
Title: Re: "Sudbury House" Harrow 1764
Post by: Ian McL on Monday 08 June 20 17:51 BST (UK)
Alex Mcleod was my great grandfather. In 1881 he lived with his family in Sudbury House Lodge and worked as a gardener for Lear J Drew, a biscuit manufacturer. (Later Meredith and Drew?) Lear Drew lived in Sudbury House with his wife and 5 servants.
Although the 1891 census states that Alex was living at Sudbury House, this might be an error - or perhaps he was caretaking. In the census Lear Drew is shown as living in Hove, East Sussex.