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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: pjreill on Wednesday 21 May 14 12:21 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone, William Rogers was my great great grandfather who died in Cairns, Queensland, Australia on 3 July 1934 aged 82 years 11 months. He married Mary Ann Lovelock on 19 August 1872 in England. I have looked up English birth records and found a William Rogers who's birth was registered in the third quarter in Brentford in 1851 so I assume that I have the right guy. My problem is finding out his mother and father's name. I believe his parents were Thomas Rogers and Harriet Smith. But my great Aunt was the witness on his death certificate and stated that William's father was named George and he was a publican. Now I found that Thomas was a publican in the 1871 census. Can anyone help me find out for sure? My great Aunt was only 10 years old when she emigrated to Australia so maybe wasn't sure of her facts. She also didn't list his mother at all on the death certificate. Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi
His marriage in Acton lists his father as Thomas Rogers occ Publican. William was a Dairyman.
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London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Lovelock
Mary Ann Lovelock
Spouse William Rogers
Marriage
Date: 19 Aug 1872
Acton St Mary
Ealing Borough
Father Name Charles Lovelock occ Tailor
Spouse Father Thomas Rogers occ Publican
from Parish Register
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Sorry should have added the witness too the marriage were a Frederick Taylor and an S Lovelock.
Also Charles Lovelock (Tailor) listed as deceased at the time of the marriage.
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Thanks Rosie and Judi, Do you know if there is any way to confirm from birth records if I have the right William Rogers in Brentford? The free birth search gives volume 3 page 11 but no other information on a father or mother's name.
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I don't know if you have the right entry without buying the cert from the GRO,
but on the 1851 census there is a Willm Rogers aged 9 son of Thomas (& Harriet) who's a Coal Dealer in the High Street, Ealing which comes under Brentford registration district.
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A possible brother John was baptised at Ealing 1st July 1849 and Thomas was a labourer
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Just compared 1861 and 1871 census and Thomas claims Wiltshire as his place of birth on both.
The only way to get the correct birth cert is to apply to the GRO but stating you "don't know" the reference when you make your application. If you do that, you have the opportunity to name the parents as Thomas & Harriet. If the entry they have doesn't match you'll get a refund.
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this looks to be the marriage
Name: Thomas Rogers
Spouse' Harriet Smith
marriage 1835 Broad Hinton Parish, Wiltshire, England
children to the couple christened at Broad Hinton
Ann 1 February 1836
Sarah 30 March 1837
Hannah 24 March 1839
Elizabeth 12 September 1841
Jane 7 December 1845
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1871 Thomas Rogers is the landord of the Fox and hounds High St Brentford.
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1851
Harriet is visiting the ROGERS family with son John
Richard Rogers 65 Head ....Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England
Elizabeth Rogers 21 Daughter...Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England
James Rogers 17 Son..... Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England
Harriet Rogers 34 Visitor....Yatesbury, Wiltshire, England
John Rogers 2 Visitor .....Middlesex
Piece 1838
Folio 65
Page Number 13
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and Thomas in 1851 is in middlesex with the other children
Living in Bull Lane Brentford Middlesex
Thomas Rogers 35 Gasman.....all listed as born Broad Eaton, Wiltshire, England
Ann Rogers 15
Hannah Rogers 12
Elizabeth Rogers 10
Rebecca Rogers 8
Piece 1699
Folio 263
Page Number 30
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Their daughter Ann married
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Ann Rogers
Ann Rogers Spouse Henry Manning
Marriage
Date 25 Dec 1860
Parish Ealing St Mary
Borough Ealing
Father Name: Thomas Rogers
Spouse Father: Henry Manning
Parish Register
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Their daughter Elizabeth married
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Elizabeth Rogers Spouse James Edward Read
Marriage
Date: 11 Aug 1861
Ealing St Mary
Borough Ealing
Father Name Thomas Rogers
Spouse Father James Read
Register Type Parish Register
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Thanks Dawn and Judi, I have ordered a copy of the birth certificate now from the GRO (first time I have done that so I hope I got it right). Thankyou for the advice. Once I receive it I will give an update with any new info I found to confirm. Regards, Pete
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Ordering without the reference from the GRO takes about 15 working days, with the reference 5 days, but if you are unsure you have the right reference, it's the most cost effective way of doing things as you get a refund if the information doesn't match.
Although civil registration started in 1837, the onus was on the registrar to go around his district and collect births until a change in the law put the onus on parents in 1875. A small number of births weren't registered so there may not be a birth to find. Hopefully though, this will be correct.
If it isn't. come back and let us know.
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Thanks Dawn, I have been trying to track Thomas a bit more now too. I think I found him on the 1881 census, still a publican in Brentford with Harriett and two grandsons Henry 15 and Thomas 12 were with them on census night. Their surname was spelt with 'Rodgers' instead of 'Rogers' on this census. After that I can't seem to find any more so I am not sure if they both died sometime between 1881 and 1891. I can't seem to find any death records for them. Any help there would be appreciated. Regards, Pete
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After some weeks waiting I have received the birth certificate of William Rogers. Very exciting. It shows he was born on 6th August 1851 at Old Brentford. The son of Thomas Rogers and Harriet Rogers formerly Smith. It has an X as the mark of Harriet Rogers Mother Old Brentford so Harriet must have been illiterate. I imagine that was probably common in those days.
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Hi Pete
Well, the birth cert seems to confirm the info you posted when you started this topic, parents names correct and date of birth ties up nicely with age at death.
Do you need any more help or is this now completed?
Dawn
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Hi Dawn,
Yes, the birth date fits perfectly with his death date of 3 July 1934 in Cairns, Queensland, Australia. I have an obituary where it says he was 82 years 11 months old when he died so I am 100% sure now I have the right William Rogers.
My next quest is to find out what happened to William's parents Thomas and Harriett. I can't seem to find anything on either of them after the 1881 census. I am guessing that both may have died before 1891. In 1881 Thomas was 66 and Harriett was 65 according to the birth years that I have. If anybody could help me find out when and where they died I would appreciate it. Regards, Pete.
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Hi Pete
There's a death entry on freebmd
September 1882
Thomas Rogers, aged 62, Brentford 3a 56
and a corresponding entry in the probate calendar for 1882
31 October 1882
Administration of the personal estate of
Thomas Rogers late of the “Fox & Hounds” Inn Old
Brentford in the County of Middlesex Licensed Victualler
who died 4 September 1882 at Brentford in the said County
was granted at the principal registry to Harriett
Rogers of the “Fox & Hounds” Widow the Relict
Personal Estate £175 10s 4d
So unfortunately he didn't leave a will
Dawn
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Thanks Dawn, I had Thomas's birth as about July 1815 so by September 1882 he would have been 67. Do you think the handwriting on the death record could mistake a 7 for a 2?
It is definitely our Thomas though.
And Harriett outlived him but for how long?
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Hi Dawn, thanks for all your help. I have started a new post to talk about Harriett as I suppose it gets a bit messy introducing new questions after several pages. Thanks, Pete.
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I have just posted this information on your new post
Could this be Harriet
Death June qtr 1890
Rogers Harriet
age 73
Fulham 1a 163
Probate
Will - Late of 68 Fulham Palace Road, Hammersmith-died 11 June 1890 at that address.
Proved by Elizabeth Goddard daughter, wife of William George Goddard of 70 Fulham Palace Road and James Rogers of The American Hotel, Portsmouth Licensed Victualler -the son
£274. 11s.0d
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Hei Pete,
After contributing to your other post and now reading this I am wondering if you are aware of the website www.freebmd.org.uk. Many of the responses you have been given are a result of fairly straightforward searches on that site. Whilst it has some gaps in the registers that have been indexed it does give a very good starting point for finding BMDs in England & Wales. The index references on the site can then be used to buy copies of the relevant certificates from www.gro.gov.uk.
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Hi Craclyn, I hadn't really used the freebmd before tonight when it was mentioned I went straight to it and I have bookmarked it now. I am from Australia and I have an ancestry.com.au tree but it's amazing how little ancestry can find on their searches compared to some of these other sites. I'm still a bit of a learner for searches outside of Australia. I'm getting pretty good at the Aussie stuff though over the last year but now I find myself branching out the the older ancestors and they are all overseas. This is where I now hit the brick walls. Thankyou for all your help though, it's wonderful. Regards, Pete
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Another site that should be useful for you is www.familysearch.org
Take a look at it, go to SEARCH then choose RECORDS from the dropdown. Lots of good stuff there from all over the world. Takes a bit of playing about to get the hang of the filters on the left hand side but once you have tried a few searches you will get used to it.
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hi all,
i received a message from the above , not sure why has someone sent it to me in error
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thanks Craclyn, I have that one bookmarked now too.
Regards,
Pete
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hi all,
i received a message from the above , not sure why has someone sent it to me in error
Hi Sligo
You posted here by mistake, the post was moved, but the system still thinks you posted here.
If you don't want to receive notifications, you need to go here and amend them
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=notification;u=204643
Dawn
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pjreill
The following site give a great read on Brentford and the people who lived there:
www.bhsproject.co.uk
Lookin2
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Hi, This is first time on Roots and I am hoping Pete is still active on this topic. I believe Pete is a cousin of mine as we share the same GGGrandfather William Rogers. I have a lo of information I can exchange with Pete if he is interested
Rob
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Hi there Rob, Nice to hear from you. I will private message you.
Regards,
Pete
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Hi Pete & Rob
New members need a 'higher than 1' post count to be able to use the personal message system.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Rob will receive it but won't be able to reply just yet.
If you post once more on the topic Rob, (maybe just acknowledge the reply) then you should get full access.
Dawn
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Thanks Dawn. I have received Pete's message.
Rob