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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: budsyblues on Friday 16 May 14 12:15 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone.
I'm trying to trace two families whose children were married in Arlington on 23rd September, 1849.
The bride and groom's names were John Dunton and Ann Smithson and I think they were both born in London, I know that John worked as a bricklayer after emigrating to Australia if that's any help.
I can't find any information about their parents except that the fathers were John Dunton and Richard Smithson, and that both of their mothers may have been called Emma.
Thanks for any help.
Neil.
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Candidate on the 1851 census - Ref H0107/ 1498/5/3
John Dunton 22, bricklayer journeyman b St James, Middlesex
Ann Dunton 24 also b St James
Mary Dunton 1 b St Giles, Middlesex
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1849 Marriage in Parish Church, Bloomsbury St George
Both of full age (Bachelor & Spinster)
John's father was a Labourer
Ann's father was a Brush Maker
They were both listed at 1 Waters Place, Camden Town
The witness' were Richard SMITHSON & Emma SMITHSON
1841 CENSUS: Falconberg Court, Nr 1 (Just off or after Crown Street), Parish of St Ann Soho, City & Libertus of Westminster, Middlesex
HO107/Piece 730 / Book 3 /Folio 33 / Pg28
Richard SMITHSON 40, Brushmaker
Ann SMITHSON 40
Lavinia SMITHSON 15
Sarah SMITHSON 15,
Anne SMITHSON 14
Emma SMITHSON 12
Richard SMITHSON 10
All born in Middlesex
Cheers
AMBLY
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Good afternoon
Checking the deaths for Australia- Ann Dunton died Donald Victoria 1915 age 88 and therefore born 1827.
I think that census is right and this is her baptism
Ann Smithson 17.9.1827 St Martins in the Fields to Richard and Ann Smithson tooth brush maker Castle St.
Other children for the couple
Lavinia 30.6.1823 St Martins in F Castle St
Sarah 17.9.1827 same
Emma Mary born 18.3.1829 bap St Anne's Soho 24.2.1833 Roses St
Richard William born 15.5.1831 bap 24.2.1833
The couple seem to have married twice
Richard Smithson and Ann Platt 21.4.1822 St Anne's Soho and 14.10.1824 St George Bloomsbury
1841 no 1 Falconsbury St St Anne Soho
Richard Smithson 40 brush maker y
Anne 40 y
Lavina 15 y
Sarah 15 y
Anne 14 y
Emma 12y
Richard 10y
1851 Eve Place St Pancras Kentish town
Richard 50 toothbrush maker ST anne's Soho
Ann 51 St Martins in the Fields
Emma 22 tooth brush maker St Annes
Richard 19 brush maker St Mary Lambeth
Robert Denham visitor 22 journey man carpenter Scotland
1861 6 Crown Place Kentish town Richard and Anne
1871 no 10 Dunford Place
Death Richard Smithson 1800-June 1886 Pancras 16 68
Ann Smithson 1801-Mar 1874 Pancras 1b 131
Will see what else I can find
Ciderdrinker
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Good afternoon
Checking the deaths for Australia- Ann Dunton died Donald Victoria 1915 age 88 and therefore born 1827.
I think that census is right and this is her baptism
Ann Smithson 17.9.1827 St Martins in the Fields to Richard and Ann Smithson tooth brush maker Castle St.
Other children for the couple
Lavinia 30.6.1823 St Martins in F Castle St
Sarah 17.9.1827 same
Emma Mary born 18.3.1829 bap St Anne's Soho 24.2.1833 Roses St
Richard William born 15.5.1831 bap 24.2.1833
The couple seem to have married twice
Richard Smithson and Ann Platt 21.4.1822 St Anne's Soho and 14.10.1824 St George Bloomsbury
1841 no 1 Falconsbury St St Anne Soho
Richard Smithson 40 brush maker y
Anne 40 y
Lavina 15 y
Sarah 15 y
Anne 14 y
Emma 12y
Richard 10y
1851 Eve Place St Pancras Kentish town
Richard 50 toothbrush maker ST anne's Soho
Ann 51 St Martins in the Fields
Emma 22 tooth brush maker St Annes
Richard 19 brush maker St Mary Lambeth
Robert Denham visitor 22 journey man carpenter Scotland
1861 6 Crown Place Kentish town Richard and Anne
1871 no 10 Dunford Place
Death Richard Smithson 1800-June 1886 Pancras 16 68
Will see what else I can find
Ciderdrinker
Thanks very much.
The death is correct, although I don't have an exact date.
Ann was buried with John (who died in 1897) at Bendigo, Donald is not far away and I assume she may have moved there with one of the children following John's death.
One question, why would they marry twice?
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hi
Duntons being a bit more difficult.
The death index for Australia gives a birth of 1829 and parents John and Mary Dennis at Bendigo Victoria 1897.
This may be the family 1841 Back hill St Andrews Holborn
Ann Dunton 30 y
John 50 labourer N
John 9 y
Sarah 6 y
But the age for John is two years out ,perhaps he needed to be 21 for his marriage in 1849.
Possible baptism for father at Westminster 15.1.1793 to John and Frances Dunton born Dec 1892, but all possibles and not anything for certain.
Ciderdrinker
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The 1824 marriage:
14th October 1824, St George, Bloomsbury
Richard Smithson, of this parish he signed
Ann Platt, of this parish she made her mark
Married by banns.
Witnesses are John Harrison (who appears as witness in 3 of 6 marriages on the page in the register), and Jane Colborn (who appears as witness on another wedding on the same page)
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Thanks for your help.
I looked as far as I could but I'm new to this so I don't really know how or where to search, but I figured that London in the mid 19th century would have been teeming with people and that it wouldn't be easy to locate my ancestors from among the masses.
The Australian records seem to be more comprehensive so I haven't had much trouble tracing their movements after their arrival, it's probably because there were far fewer people here, I've even managed to unearth some relevant newspaper cuttings.
I guess there wasn't anything very special about the sons and daughters of labourers and toothbrush makers in London circa1820. :(
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Hi
Richard SMITHSON and Ann PLATT appear to be the correct parents and the Census' found above also correct family. Ann's sister Emma went on the marry Robert Denham (the visitor in the SMITHSON home in the 1851 Census) on 9 June 1851, just after the Census. Emma's 2 witness were: Richard SMITHSON and Ann DUNTON.
The signatures of the witness Richard SMITHSON on the 2 marriages (of Ann & of Emma) and the signature of the groom on the SMITHSON / PLATT marriage all match:
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks for your help.
I looked as far as I could but I'm new to this so I don't really know how or where to search, but I figured that London in the mid 19th century would have been teeming with people and that it wouldn't be easy to locate my ancestors from among the masses.
The Australian records seem to be more comprehensive so I haven't had much trouble tracing their movements after their arrival, it's probably because there were far fewer people here, I've even managed to unearth some relevant newspaper cuttings.
I guess there wasn't anything very special about the sons and daughters of labourers and toothbrush makers in London circa1820. :(
Your problem is the timeline! ::) ;D
Civil Registration (and Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates) began on 1st July 1837.
The first census, of any use to Family History, was that of 1841.
Passenger Lists only survive from 1890.
So we need to look at other sources - such as Parish Registers, or legal documents.
These aren't always handily available online! :(
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Thanks for that, and a very nice hand had Richard Smithson.
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Thanks for your help.
I looked as far as I could but I'm new to this so I don't really know how or where to search, but I figured that London in the mid 19th century would have been teeming with people and that it wouldn't be easy to locate my ancestors from among the masses.
The Australian records seem to be more comprehensive so I haven't had much trouble tracing their movements after their arrival, it's probably because there were far fewer people here, I've even managed to unearth some relevant newspaper cuttings.
I guess there wasn't anything very special about the sons and daughters of labourers and toothbrush makers in London circa1820. :(
Your problem is the timeline! ::) ;D
Civil Registration (and Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates) began on 1st July 1837.
The first census, of any use to Family History, was that of 1841.
Passenger Lists only survive from 1890.
So we need to look at other sources - such as Parish Registers, or legal documents.
These aren't always handily available online! :(
Indeed.
I'm resigned to the fact that I may not get far, on this branch of the tree I'm currently back five generations so I guess I'm doing OK.
If that's as far as we can go then so be it.
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I guess there wasn't anything very special about the sons and daughters of labourers and toothbrush makers in London circa1820. :(
I believe everyone has their own special story - and how lucky are we to have the resources and records to try discover and tell it! ;D
You might find this website about brush makers interesting:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kdoughty/drawing.html
Amazing part in it about how many cattle were needed to provide the bone for tooth-brush handles!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I believe everyone has their own special story - and how lucky are we to have the resources and records to try discover and tell it! ;D
I agree.
I only recently embarked on the journey to discover my recent origins but the process has been fascinating and very educational.
I was talking to my friend about it today and saying how it makes you appreciate that you're only a minute and rather insignificant part of the overall humanity, even though within your own family and close circle of friends you are important.
It's very grounding, and well worthwhile.
You might find this website about brush makers interesting:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kdoughty/drawing.html
Amazing part in it about how many cattle were needed to provide the bone for tooth-brush handles!
Cheers
AMBLY
Remarkable.
Where I live there are a large number of outworkers, mostly from South East Asia, sewing up various garments in garages, converted shops and houses, mostly at poverty level wages, and my mother did the same in the inter war period of the last century.
So nothing much has changed.