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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: rgee on Monday 05 May 14 00:53 BST (UK)
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Can anybody help me break down a long standing strong wall.
I am trying to track down the true father of Frederick James Bigham, my great Grandfather. According to all records i have found for him he went under the name of Frederick James Bigham, he was born in Bristol in 1879 but his mother Elizabeth Dudley Powell married his "father" John Bigham in June 1883 four years after his birth.
I did send for two birth certs. for Frederick James Powell from Bristol reg. office but on both requests the mothers name is wrong.
Elizabeth's birth is given as in both Bristol and Bath but i have not been able to find it, her father's name was Thomas Powell, and i have not been able to find any other marriage for her, i would just like to confirm Frederick's Father.
Sorry this seems a bit long winded.
Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated
Regards
rgee
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Hello rgee
Thos Bristol Powells are a pain!
I have tracked a Hilda G R Powell down to Bristol in the 1891 Census which has gone some way to solve some if not all problems.
Typical of my Powells is an inclination to change or swap around their names and they seem to disappear after 1891....
Family Search shows they were wed in Chepstow in 1883 - which suggests that was her home?
If she was old enough to Marry in 1883 was she 21 then?
I tried to find her father and the name crops up in Censuses back to 1851 - was he a military Man, at Portsmouth in 1851? Could it be he was Master of a Ship that was based in Chepstow but which traded further south down the Severn? There is a similarly named in the 1891 Census and one on Temple Backs Bristol in 1861.
Hope this may open up some new options for you?
Colin
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Yes
A damn pain
Frederick James Bigham exact date of birth 9 March 1878 so what other Frederick james are registered Mar/June 1878.
No tried that and neither entry for Bristol has mauden name Powell on new index.
Ciderdrinker
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hi all.
The Frederick James Bigham birth i am looking for is the son of John Bigham of Chepstow, Mon and Elizabeth Dudley Powell also of Chepstow at time of Marriage, maiden name was Powell, they were married on 3rd June 1883, he was 24 yrs she was 27 yrs. their first child was Frederick James but i am unable to find his birth, on every document that i have found for him, he gives his year of birth as 1879 ( four years before parents marriage) and place of birth as Bristol, even his police record records his birth as 1879, Bristol, i have searched looking one year either side, but have not found him.
I have also searched under the name of Powell, since this was his mothers maiden name,she also puts her place of birth down as Bristol, and her fathers name on marriage cert. is Thomas Powell profession Home Missionary.
I am rightly or wrongly thinking at the moment, that John Bigham was not his natural father, as the only Elizabeth Dudley ( she uses the Dudley on every document with her name on it, including her grave stone) of her age that i have found so far is one working as a maid, at The Great Western Hotel, Colmore Row, Birmingham, on the 1881 census, and things did go on between guests and maids, but the one in Birmingham place of birth is down as Hidcote, Glos.
I have applied for two birth cert, from Bristol under the name of Powell but both do not have the correct mother, and i also have not been able to track down her farther Thomas Powell.
Any help would be much appreciated, this wall is getting the better of me.
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In previous thread - 27 December 2015
Marriage at Chepstow - 3 June 1883 between John BIGHAM aged 24 - and Elizabeth Dudley POWELL aged 27 witnesses: Robt JONES and Kate BALL - (transcript on the Forest of Dean Family website) - this marriage by Licence : have you obtained this Licence as there may be more information?
As there appears to be connections to Bristol also quoted was the baptism of
Robert Dudley POWELL - 12 November 1886 - parents: Thomas Frederic POWELL and Anne Louisa
Also by googling: Robert Dudley POWELL - Seaman, Royal Navy Service No: 211712 - born 18 January 1885 - Westbury.
Ancestry: Robert Dudley POWELL - under UK Royal Navy Register of Seamen Service 1853-1928
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?
Couple on Family Search married at Bristol in 1876 : Thomas Frederick POWELL (father Henry) and Annie Louisa PARSONS
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?
Family Search
Thomas Frederick POWELL - christened 8 September 1850 - St Philip & St Jacob's Bristol : parents Thomas Henry POWELL and Matilda
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Robert Dudley POWELL married 18 August 1901 at Bedminster St John Somerset (father: Thomas Frederick POWELL to Rose TOVEY
Robert Arthur Dudley POWELL christened in Staffordshire 9 January 1902 - father: Robert Dudley POWELL and Rose.
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many thanks Capetown, some food for thought there. I do have the marriage cert. but i was not aware that you could get a copy of the licence, where can i get a copy from.?
What i really want to know is Frederick James Bigham a Bigham by birth or by adoption.
As regards the info on the Powell's that you have given, that's all new to me as the only Powell i new of was Thomas Powell, Elizabeth Dudleys father as shown on the marriage cert.
ray
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Thomas Frederick POWELL - christened 8 September 1850 - St Philip & St Jacob's Bristol : parents Thomas Henry POWELL and Matilda
Thomas Henry Powell marries Matilda Walker in Bedminster district, 1849, and there's a birth registration in 1850 for Thomas Frederick in Clifton which fits. However there is no Elizabeth Powell with mmn Walker
INdeed, looking at 1861 for Thomas Henry and Matilda, they have no Elizabeth and also two young sons called Thomas and Frederick, suggesting TF Powell b 1850 didn;t survive.
So i think they are not your family
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Thomas who is father of Robert Powell, b Bristol c1881, was a shoemaker born in Ireland c1853
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'I was not aware that you could get a copy of the Licence, where can I get a copy?
On the Forest of Dean Family History site - they have transcribed
Gloucestershire Marriage Licences 1637-1837 and
Allegations & Marriage Bonds 1730-1823
There are some for Chepstow - but this was the place of residence of either the Bride or Groom to marry in Gloucestershire.
Before these were transcribed I obtained mine from the Gloucestershire Records Office - so assume the Gwent Records Office would hold the Licences ?
Looking at the transcript of the baptism of John & 'Eliza' BIGHAM on the Forest of Dean website - may be there are other family names....
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Chepstow
3 January 1889
Harriet Margaret DUDLEY BIGHAM
parents: John & Eliza
residence: Foundry Cottage
occupation: Watchman
Memoranda: In this record a forename was not clear so the best guess was given Birth Register shows Harriet Margaretta D. Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name.
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same day: 3 Jan 1889
a son
Alexander Henry BIGHAM (not on the 1891 census)
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16 October 1890
David WALLACE BIGHAM (not on the 1891 census)
parents: John Eliz[abe]th
residence: Wye Valley Cottage
occupation: Watchman
Family Search
1891 Census, Chepstow
J Bigham 33
Elizabeth 34
Frederick 14
William 6
Harriet 4
1901 Census at Chepstow
John BIGHAM - 42 - born Shirenewton
Elizabeth D BIGHAM - 43, bristol
Frederick J BIGHAM - 22 - born Bristol
John W BIGHAM - 15 - born Tidenham
Harriet M BIGHAM - 14 - born Tidenham
Alexander H BIGHAM - 12 - born Chepstow
David W BIGHAM - 10 - born Chepstow
? are these 'boat people' going up and down the Severn as far as Birmingham?
? or should you also be looking for the surname POWER : accents, especially Irish around Bristol etc.
? with Bristol and Margarett/Henry etc
1881 Census, Bristol St James
Margaret POWELL - aged 36, born Ireland
Frederick POWELL - Grandson, aged 4, born Bristol St Pauls ??
Lily ANDERSON - grand-daughter - 5 - born Ireland
Henry POWELL - Son - 28 - born Ireland
Annie POWELL - daughter-in-law- 24, born Bristol St James
Thomas POWELL - Grand-son - 2 - born Bristol St James
?? this depends on when Henry POWELL married Annie ***- although Frederick aged 4 is listed after his Grandmother and not 'between' Annie and Thomas aged 2
*** or did she marry Thomas Frederick POWELL
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Is this the same Annie POWELL in 1901 Bristol
Annie Louisa - 41 - born Redland, Bristol
Robert D - son - 19 - born Redland, bristol ***
Harriet L - daughter 17 - born Kingsdown Bristol
Margaret D POWELL daughter - 15 - born Cotham Bristol
Eliza POWELL - daughter - 14 - born Redcliffe Bristol
Henry G POWELL - son - 12 - born Bedminster, Bristol
(the D stands for DUDLEY)
Robert Dudley POWELL christened 12 November 1886 at Bristol, parents: Thomas Frederic POWELL and Annie Louisa POWELL
There just seems too many 'family names' to be a coincidence!
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1881 Census, Bristol St James
Margaret POWELL - aged 36, born Ireland
Frederick POWELL - Grandson, aged 4, born Bristol St Pauls ??
Lily ANDERSON - grand-daughter - 5 - born Ireland
Henry POWELL - Son - 28 - born Ireland
Annie POWELL - daughter-in-law- 24, born Bristol St James
Thomas POWELL - Grand-son - 2 - born Bristol St James
?? this depends on when Henry POWELL married Annie ***- although Frederick aged 4 is listed after his Grandmother and not 'between' Annie and Thomas aged 2
*** or did she marry Thomas Frederick POWELL
someone has annotated the 1881 census on Ancestry to suggest Henry is Thomas Frederick - and indeed is yuo look at the image it definitely says Thomas not Henry
also, as yet I am notsure how we link Elizabeth b c1854 Bristol or Bath to this family, especially as thomas is b c1853 in Ireland
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?Not sure if in the past, I've seen where people don't say they were born in Ireland (prejudice) as did 'Travellers"
Thomas & Ann POWELL don't have a Frederick POWELL with them on the 1891 census
1891 Census
Bedminster
St Lukes
Brewers Place
Thomas POWELL - aged 38, born Mayo, Ireland (Shoemaker)
Ann POWELL - wife - 28 - born Bristol, England
Thomas - 12 (aged 2 on the 1881 census)
Robert - 10
Harriett - 8
Margaret - 6
Eliza - 4
Henry - 2
John - 0
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Hello
I've been through all the Elizabeth Powells registered in Gloucestershire 1855-1858 and there are only two with a father Thomas.
Elizabeth Alma Mar 1857 Northleach d of Thomas and Mary nee Cross (but she's on the 1881 census so not her )
Elizabeth Dec 1855 Westbury on Severn d of Thomas and Ann nee Barnett.(just found her 1881 so not her).
Neither are a home missionary I'm afraid.
I also tried Elizabeth Dudleys but there are none in Gloucestershire
Or Forget all that and is this her on the 1861 census
Ebrington Gloucestershire
Thomas Willoughby 82 widower on parish Churchill Oxfordshire
John Powell 41 plate layer Imbleton Worcs s in law
Hannah 39 daughter Hidcote
Charles 11 ag lab Hicote
Anna 9
Selina 4
Elizabeth D 2 Hidcote
She's baptised as Elizabeth Dora 19 June 1859 at Ebrington and appears on the 1871 as Dora.
Ciderdrinker
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Marriage at Birmingham 1882
Elizabeth Dora POWELL to William Thomas BROWN
1891 Census,
Latimer Street South, Birmingham
E Dora BROWN - Widow - aged 33, born Gloucestershire
William J BROWN - son aged 8, born Gloucestershire
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Gloucestershirebmd
1882
William J BROWN - mother's maiden name: POWELL
Shipston-on-Stour, Chipping Campden
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Marriage at Birmingham: 28 October 1895
Elizabeth Dora BROWN, aged 36 - father: John POWELL
married
Thomas WOODCOCK, aged 44 - father: John WOODCOCK
1901 Census - Ruston Street, Birmingham
Thos WOODCOCK - aged 53
Elzth WOODCOCK - aged 43 - born Camden, Glos
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Glosbmd
Elizabeth POWELL - 1859, mother's maiden name: WILLOUGHBY
Shipston-on-Stour, Chipping Campden
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Just to recap :
Frederick POWELL is aged 14 on the 1891 census c1877 and then aged 22 on the 1901 census c1879.
? still wonder who the Frederick POWELL aged 4 Grandson on the 1881 census as
Thomas Frederick POWELL christened 28 January 1879 at St Barnabas Bristol - parents Thomas Frederick POWELL and Annie (aged 2 on the 1881 census) - ? Would Thomas & Annie, name two sons with the name Frederick??
Annie Georgina POWELL (nee PARSONS) - christened 2 September 1880 St John The Evangelist Church, Clifton - same parents.
Thomas Frederick POWELL (father Henry) married Annie Louisa PARSONS - 1 May 1876, Bristol St Paul, Portland Square, Glos .... ? who were the witnesses etc.
Frederick POWELL the Grandson aged 4 - is also listed as being born in Bristol St Pauls. Margaret is a Widow
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Hi all.
Many thanks for everyones help on this subject. I have not been active on my tree for a while now, but just starting to pick it back up, i will be looking into all the info you good people have put on here and see where it leads, now i am coming up to retirement i might find more time to dig around.
So once again Thanks to you all.
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Interesting..... these Powells.....from Ireland, multiple forenames suggests their religion,
Mine are:
Name: William Joseph POWELL**
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Birth: 1860 Westport, County Mayo, Ireland
Death: 1930 Bath, Somerset, England
Occupation: Commercail Traveller or just a ‘Traveller’
Marriage: 1882 Bath, Somerset, England
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Spouse: Eva Frances BROWN ...perhaps With An E
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Birth: 1862 Bath, Somerset, England
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Children
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1 F: Eva Frances Browne POWELL
Birth: Sept Q 1883 Bath, Somerset, England
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2 F: Helena Letitia D POWELL
Birth: Sept Q 1884 Bath, Somerset, England
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3 M: William Maurice M POWELL
Birth: Sept Q 1885 Bath, Somerset, England/ Broadclyst Devon
Spouse: Rosamond Alicia BAYNE
Marriage: Mar 1905 St. Thomas The Apostle, Broadclyst, Devon, England
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4 M: Walton Hubert C POWELL
Birth: Mar Q 1888 Bath, Somerset, England
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5 F: Algorta Marjorie Blanche CHILD (Aka Diana)
Birth: 1889 “Widford, Hertford, England (or so her Marr L says)”
Death: 10 Apr 1927 Ayr District Asylum (as Diana Hamilton)
Spouse: Sir Charles Edward Archibald Watkin HAMILTON Bart. Of Trebunshin
Marriage: 8 Nov 1906 St Marylebone Register Office, London
Divorce: 1908
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6 F: Marjorie Adelaide F POWELL Poss Missing Child
Birth: Dec Q1889 Barton Regis, Gloucestershire
Spouse: Walter ELLIOTT
Marriage: 1923 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
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7 F: Hilda Geraldine Ridley POWELL
Birth: Sept Q 1890 Barton Regis, Gloucestershire
Death: Dec 1963 Chichester, Sussex, England
Spouse: George William CHILD
Marriage: 1911 St Giles, London
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8 F: Nahneen Helen Yvonne CHILD
Birth: 24 Jul 1891 Ireland, Waterford? (marr License?)
Death: 26 Jan 1951 West Bromwich, Oldbury, Worcs
Spouse: Frederick Beaconsfield PENTLAND
Marriage: 1923 St Georges Hanover Square, London
Spouse: Capt. Claude Patrick Julian HAYES
Marriage: 10 Aug 1914 Kensington, London (civil) and at Notre Dame des Victoires, Paris
** 1889 saw W J Powell prosecuted in Wells and then in Bath for Bigamy. Lots of press reports.
5 & 8 have been brick walls for me for yonks i know a lot about both - 8 was the mother of my cousin (93+ today!) So when I found a link to 7 Thought thetas achancebut the last Press report cites the Judge as saying that WJP had 8 children.... and with several obvious links I could suddenly see that this was my Cousins family.
She assumed her Mum kept her family history to herself because there was something especially good - now we know it was the opposite.
WJP was a seaman, was a Captain ...of a Salvation Army Chapel he had set up, had been in prison for not being good.... had been a children's entertainer.
He died in 1930 in Bath.... what else can I learn of him, his origins, where his family were in 1891, 1901, 1911 and later? I know where Hilda, Algorta and Nahneen were! I know William married and had 3 children but what about the others and Eva their Mum? I am looking for her parents too!
So yes these Powells are the children of a man who was a traveller and commercial traveller - who broke the laws of church and state - did his family desert him because of that?
Anyone have access to bath electoral rolls in the years up to 1930.
Who knows maybe we have links yet to find?