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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Sam Stoat on Tuesday 29 April 14 12:46 BST (UK)

Title: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Sam Stoat on Tuesday 29 April 14 12:46 BST (UK)
First, I'm after the name of the vicar. I get Jones, but not his first name.

Second, is the first witness. William is easy enough, but the rest has got me. Is that a middle initial, or "le"?

Any help appreciated.
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 29 April 14 12:49 BST (UK)
Is it in Wales? 'Cos vicar looks like Pryce Jones to me, and that sounds Welsh!

Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Sam Stoat on Tuesday 29 April 14 13:04 BST (UK)
Is it in Wales?
Newcastle Upon Tyne, actually. Nothing stopping a Welshman coming up here, though, so could be. The parish is St. John's. Anyway of finding who was vicar in 1838?
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 29 April 14 13:20 BST (UK)
Is his signature any clearer on the other marriages on the page?

Actually it is probably a cert, not a PR entry, so forget that.
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 29 April 14 13:24 BST (UK)
Is this the Church?

http://www.stjohnthebaptistnewcastle.co.uk/

If so, why not contact them and ask who the vicar was in 1838?
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Galium on Tuesday 29 April 14 14:56 BST (UK)
familysearch has images of parish registers for St John, Newcastle. They are browse only, and as far as I can see there are only baptisms and burials. In 1838 names of officiating ministers are Maughan, Simpson, Wright ..and R N L Jones, who always signs with initials for his forenames.

There was a C of E minister named Pryce Jones at this time, who was vicar of Helmdon in Northamptonshire.  It is possible that he was a relative of R N L Jones, who happened to be visiting and assisting  at St John's for some reason when the marriage took place.  P. Jones/Pryce Jones was performing baptisms and burials  at St John's in September and October of 1838.
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Sam Stoat on Tuesday 29 April 14 15:04 BST (UK)
P. Jones/Pryce Jones was performing baptisms and burials  at St John's in September and October of 1838.
The marriage was on 13th of October, so I think we'll say Pryce.

Thanks for the vicar. First witness, anybody?
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: josey on Tuesday 29 April 14 15:54 BST (UK)
First stab.....
William C Coats
or *oots
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 29 April 14 16:08 BST (UK)
I see

William Oliver's X mark
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Tuesday 29 April 14 23:48 BST (UK)
The vicar's name looks like Ryce Jones, which would fit with Galium's R N L Jones.

And I have a hankering for William Clovells

Colin
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 30 April 14 08:26 BST (UK)
The capital 'C' in Church on the line above is very distinctive.
I dont think the surname of William begins with a 'C' as it is different.

I first thought it was a middle initial K, then a surname, but not sure.
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Wiggy on Wednesday 30 April 14 09:47 BST (UK)
The capital 'C' in Church on the line above is very distinctive.
I dont think the surname of William begins with a 'C' as it is different.

I first thought it was a middle initial K, then a surname, but not sure.

I agree with Liz   - but can't read the surname either!!
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Friday 02 May 14 00:02 BST (UK)
I also agree with Liz and Wiggy but would suggest that it was common practice for an assistant such as Parish Clerk to complete the details of a certificate and leave only the signatures to be completed after the ceremony.

It's impossible to say if this was the case, but it might be worth considering.  ;)

Colin
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 02 May 14 00:40 BST (UK)
William Oliver's X mark

I agree with Geoff-E. :)
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Sam Stoat on Friday 02 May 14 07:47 BST (UK)
In the 1841 census, Joseph and Sarah (the married couple) live in Bells Close, West Denton. I found a William Oliver also living in Bells Close. It's a fair bet that's him.
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: Galium on Friday 02 May 14 08:31 BST (UK)
Good find, Sam.   :)

Re  the handwriting, I think your certificate copy is from the GRO? In this case what you see is a transcription from the original register into the GRO's books, and all the writing, including signatures will be by the same person.

Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: jennifer c on Friday 23 May 14 00:22 BST (UK)
My take - Pryce Jones  - William C Woods  - Joseph Reed


Jennifer
Title: Re: Help with names on marriage certificate
Post by: crowsfeet on Friday 23 May 14 02:49 BST (UK)
1] after Banns

2] Ryce Jones

3] Joseph Wm Reed

4] William C Woods X mark

[my first look at William I wondered if it was clovely, seemed to be a by or ly ending.]

Crowsfeet