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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Frank Murphy on Saturday 26 April 14 11:16 BST (UK)

Title: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Saturday 26 April 14 11:16 BST (UK)
Have checked groni without success, familysearch.org ,ancestry.co.uk
1901 Census: http://tinyurl.com/pxbd8s7 Belfast
1911 Census: http://tinyurl.com/ncqlzqu  Co Antrim

His father Paul Murphy was a Stone Mason, also seen him listed as a Stone Cutter.
His mother was Catherine (nee Treacy)
have checked on newspapers.com, nothing that I could find.

Any help appreciated.
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 10:20 BST (UK)
Frank - I take it that you have Paul and Catherine's marriage in 1882, Waterford.  It is to be found here
http://www.rootsireland.ie/

I am still looking for a birth record for Thomas.
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 27 April 14 10:48 BST (UK)
The 1901/1911 census records indicate Thomas born Belfast / Co. Antrim, all siblings born Waterford.

In those circumstances could it not be that Thomas was registered elsewhere (eg. on the way down to Waterford)?
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 10:54 BST (UK)
Frank - I take it that you have Paul and Catherine's marriage in 1882, Waterford.  It is to be found here
http://www.rootsireland.ie/

I am still looking for a birth record for Thomas.
RosemaryJoan

Yes, Have traced their wedding on rootsireland, and Catherine baptism in Tramore.
Thomas died  in Cork 1947 (Sub-Editor with the Cork Examiner)
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 10:58 BST (UK)
The 1901/1911 census records indicate Thomas born Belfast / Co. Antrim, all siblings born Waterford.

In those circumstances could it not be that Thomas was registered elsewhere (eg. on the way down to Waterford)?

I've had a look but couldn't find a Thomas with father Paul, or mother with Catherine (or variants of)
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 11:33 BST (UK)
Frank - Because they were Catholic, even if they 'forgot' to register Thomas's birth , they would have had him baptised in the Catholic Church.  If we can find the area in Belfast where they lived perhaps we could find the church.
As it happens a member of my family was also a stone mason during that time, and family history tells me that he worked on the Catholic Cathedral in Belfast.  The family lived in Lilliput Street in the Dock area of Belfast.
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 11:56 BST (UK)
Frank - Because they were Catholic, even if they 'forgot' to register Thomas's birth , they would have had him baptised in the Catholic Church.  If we can find the area in Belfast where they lived perhaps we could find the church.
As it happens a member of my family was also a stone mason during that time, and family history tells me that he worked on the Catholic Cathedral in Belfast.  The family lived in Lilliput Street in the Dock area of Belfast.
RosemaryJoan

Where could one follow up on this Thom's 1884-86?
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 12:51 BST (UK)
I have just been searching ancestryireland who claim to have nearly all catholic baptisms in Down and Antrim and no sign of a Thomas with father Paul.  Have you looked at the Joseph born 1882 in Waterford??
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 12:59 BST (UK)
I have just been searching ancestryireland who claim to have nearly all catholic baptisms in Down and Antrim and no sign of a Thomas with father Paul.  Have you looked at the Joseph born 1882 in Waterford??
RosemaryJoan

It's definably Paul, as Thomas has reported the death of his father Paul in 1907, and his mother Catherine (window of paul in 1938)
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 13:31 BST (UK)
Does this mean that he was Thomas Francis?
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 13:36 BST (UK)
Does this mean that he was Thomas Francis?
RosemaryJoan

He seems to have been on his death record April 1947 Cork, but there was only one Thomas Francis I found on rootsireland, and he had different parents. Most of his life he seems to have been just Thomas, or Thomas F.
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 15:32 BST (UK)
What were the christian names of Thomas F's male grandparents?  You will have them on the marriage of his parents.  I have to say, I'm running out of ideas.
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 15:47 BST (UK)
Joseph Murphy and Thomas Treacy. It could be that they just didn't register his birth anywhere.
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 16:12 BST (UK)
Going by the family naming patterns, which were common in the 1880s, then the Joseph born in 1882 was the first child, named after the father's father, and then Thomas, the second child, after the mother's father, third child after Paul, etc..  If the Joseph born 1882 was baptised, then I would think that they had Thomas baptised (somewhere!!)
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 16:27 BST (UK)
But Joseph appear to be younger going by the Census,
I got his Josephs birth-cert born  a number of weeks back, born 1888 . (Joseph being my grandfather)
Thomas died in 1947 aged 62.
Joseph died in  1959 aged 71.

Thomas had a commision as Captain in the Connaght Rangers ww1,
though served with a Welsh Regiment for the duration. (from his obit, Munster Express 25-4-1947)
Waiting to hear if his service number\record still exists.
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Sunday 27 April 14 16:30 BST (UK)
There was an earlier Joseph born to the same parents in 1882 who must have died.  Just found this on Family Search

Name:    Thomas Murphy
Event Type:    Birth
Event Date:    Apr - Jun 1884
Event Place:    Newcastle, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year:    Apr - Jun 1884
Registration District:    Newcastle
Age:   
Birth Year (Estimated):   
Mother's Maiden Name:   
Volume Number:    5
Page Number:    541
GS Film number:   101060
Digital Folder Number:   004193461
Image Number:    00161

I am assuming that this is Newcastle, Co. Down.  ????
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Sunday 27 April 14 16:49 BST (UK)
findmypast.ie, has it down as Newcastle, Limerick same reference  numbers.
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: RosemaryJoan on Monday 28 April 14 09:35 BST (UK)
Darn it.
RosemaryJoan
Title: Re: Thomas Murphy Born about 1885 Antrim-Belfast
Post by: Frank Murphy on Tuesday 29 April 14 09:40 BST (UK)
Hi The earlier Joseph Murphy, was the first child, have found baptism and death fopr a 3yr old. Listing Cath. Murphy as mother, Son os a Stone Cutter. Mayor's Walk, Waterford City address. Thank you for that  Rosemary Joan.