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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: hazelnuts01 on Thursday 24 April 14 21:29 BST (UK)
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Alexander stuart wilson born 1844 in Glasgow - married Agnes Young 1865 (Glasgow) - son James
Stuart Wilson born 1871 selkirk - where did they go from here? Can anyone help please?
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Hi :)
Just adding link to a very old post with lots of detail www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=265825.0
What do you have on this family? On the other post you also mentioned James Stuart Wilson born selkirk 1871. Is this James in your line?
Monica
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A complete stand alone here.... ::)
Of the sons of Alexander and Agnes, there was JOHN RORISON YOUNG WILSON b. 19 July 1869 Galashiels, Selkirk.
In Sept 1905 (think this is 3rd Qrt registration), Dublin North, there was the birth of a JOHN RORISON YOUNG WILSON (ref vol.2/pg. 422).
In 1975, there is this reference to a death John Robison Y Wilson born in 22 Jun 1905, who died in Salisbury, Wiltshire in Dec 1975, aged 70. Vol. 23, pg. 1952. Thought this might connect with this entry here www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/46750/page/15258 ...bottom on the list.
Monica
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Hi Monica
Searching for Grandfather James wilson - found this one and researching it because I have Stuart as MY middle name but cannot find Grandfather until 1901 census (age19). Would like to find Alexander and Agnes with family if possible.
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So, is there a gap between your grandfather James Wilson who you have aged 19 in 1901 (have you got details that you can add from the census here?) and then the family of Alexander and Agnes? Do you think that Agnes and Alexander were your grandfather James Wilson's grandparents?
What did you grandfather James state as his parents on his marriage cert? Is this the source of James Stuart/Stewart Wilson and the link to potentially Alexander and Agnes?
Monica :)
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Sorry, it is the 1891 census when James Wilson was 19 .
Alexander Stuart Wilson and Agnes (Young) are the parents of James Stuart Wilson (born 1871). The names on James's marriage certificate have been researched (no birth and no parents marriage have been found to date.) Even GRO Edinburgh could not help.
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Just found one of your older posts here. You have been searching a long old time haven't you :-\
I have been searching for James Wilson (my grandfather) for some time now and finally I must admit to needing some help. He names Renfrewshire Paisley (1901 census) as his birthplace but to date I cannot find any reference to him (his father was James Wilson/Mother Margaret Gillon. These names appear clearly on his wedding certificate but on his death certificate his father is called John Wilson.
He married Helen Jones 1894 in Bathgate Linlithgowshire and had the following children:-
Helen Reid Jones (Wilson) b.1893 illigitimate - Moonzie Fife
John Wilson b.1895 - Pumpherston Mid Lothian
Robert Jones Wilson b.1896 - Pumpherston Mid Lothian
Alfred Anderson Sangster Wilson b.1897 - Bathgate Linlithgowshire
Isabella Waugh Jones Wilson b.1899 - Bathgate Linlithgowshire
Elizabeth Wilson b.1907 - Blackston, Avonbridge, Stirlingshire
My grandfather died in 1955 (aged 82yrs)
I have been following the middle names given to this family and have found Reid, Anderson and Sangster in the Auchterless Aberdeen area on the Fathers Side.
Waugh I found on the mothers side (Ireland)
I do hope someone out there can give me a helping hand - I feel really stuck on this one.
regards - Hazelnuts01
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Just as additional background, this is 1901?
James Wilson 28, Oil Works Pit Headman, b. Paisley
Helen Wilson 24 b. Airdrie, Lanarkshire
Helen Wilson 8
John Wilson 6
Robert Wilson 4
Bella Wilson 1
Address: Barracks, Livingstone, West Lothian
Monica
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Have you got a clip you can add on parents for James and Helen for their 1894 marriage? If not a clip of the image, what were the details from the cert?
Monica
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Thats the one! Yes I have been searching for a very long time - I keep thinking the answers lie in the middle names of the children - that is why I decided to look into this one (Stuart being the clue).
Yes that is the 1901 census - Robert is my father - middle name Jones after his mother.
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Bathgate 1894 16th March - james wilson (22) shale miner married Helen Jones Domestic Servant
Parents James Wilson (dyer) Margaret Gillon
Parents Robert Jones (carter) and Mary Black
Signed Alexander Wilson (witness) and Sarah Swan (witness)
That is why I searched for the Alexander Wilson - but on his second marriage certificate and also his death certificate his father is given as John Wilson
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Hi,
Your post caught my attention as my great-grandfather was a James Wilson born Paisley, Renfrewshire - but this is not the same man. My ancestor was born in 1881 and married someone completely different .
But your long search and mystery has intrigued me. Can you tell us where James was on the 1891 Census and with whom and have you had any success on finding him on the 1881 (he must have been approx. 9 years then).
Looby :)
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Bathgate 1894 16th March - james wilson (22) shale miner married Helen Jones Domestic Servant
Parents James Wilson (dyer) Margaret Gillon.....
That is why I searched for the Alexander Wilson - but on his second marriage certificate and also his death certificate his father is given as John Wilson
Always a possibility that James' birth c. 1872 may have been illegitimate?
There is this birth for example https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYT1-6Z4
He shows as Wilson in 1891 I think:
John Warrington 37 shale miner b. Lanark, Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Warrington 27 b. Musselburgh, Edinburghshire
John Warrington 8
James Warrington 5
William Warrington 2
James Wilson 19, boarder, Labourer in The Mine b. Paisley
Address: 3 Starlaw Row, Bathgate, West Lothian
Monica
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Well done Monica.
That looks like a good possibility
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Hi Monica - sorry about the delay in replying.
I believe the James Wilson (1891 census) living with the Warrington family is the on I am looking for.
I have already researched the possibility of illegitimacy and I also found the Margaret Gillon in Row,
Dunbartonshire with a son James Gillon - but I found a death certificate for the infant James Gillon (aged 1) 1873.
The only other information I have recently dug up are James Wilson and Helen's children's birth certificates and the addresses where they were born.
So once again - a brick wall.
Hazelnuts01
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Hi Looby
Really appreciate your assistance - read your post with interest but as you will see from my post to Monica I am still stuck on this one.
Many thanks for your interest.
Hazelnuts01
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Hi Hazelnuts01,
Can you give more details re - Death Certificate of infant James Gillon.
Where was the death registered and was Margaret Gillon the mother with no father named?
I only ask because I tried to find it on Scotlands People and drew a complete blank ???
Looby :)
Amended - Please ignore this last post *blushes profusely* - I had a senior moment and put age in year of birth box- ( 2 +/- 2 years) . Scotlands People did not even alert me to the fact that I had a year of birth 2 !!
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Found it on Scotlandspeople - but will have to look it up again and get back to you.
Hazelnuts01
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Please ignore my request - see my amended post :-[ ;)
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Thats ok :)
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Hi again,
Does James's marriage record his father and mother as being deceased?
Looby :)
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Hazelnuts, I think you can rule out James Stuart Wilson born in Selkirk as a potential for your elusive great grandfather.
There is a death on SP in 1876 in Selkirk of a James Stewart Wilson with a year of birth 1871 +/- 1 year. :-\
I have not viewed the certificate to see who the parents are but it does look suspiciously like the person named at the beginning of your thread.
Looby :)
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Hi Looby
Opened this one up on SP and YES! It is the James Stewart Wilson I have been looking at.....so bang goes that theory and back to the drawing board.
Going back to my Grandfather's first marriage in 1894 to Helen Jones in Bathgate his father is named as James Wilson (dyer) mother Margaret Wilson (m.s. Gillon) - neither marked as deceased.
When he re-married in Glasgow in 1935 to Isabella Drummond his father is given as John Wilson, Wool Packer (deceased) and Margaret Wilson (m.s.Gillon) (deceased).
I did find a John and Margaret Wilson on 1871 census for Renton, Dunbartonshire - he was a yarn packer/dye worker but the age for James was wrong.
So far that is all I have found. The mystery continues....... ???
Hazelnuts01
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I did find a John and Margaret Wilson on 1871 census for Renton, Dunbartonshire - he was a yarn packer/dye worker but the age for James was wrong.
Did see that entry earlier. Mother Margaret's maiden name was Martin I think, James' entry here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYTB-5KS
Monica
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This may not be related, but an Alexander Wilson married a Maggie Young in district WISTON AND ROBERTON, Lanark in 1869. "Maggie" may have been shortened through, Maggie, Aggie to "Agnes".
Regards
Malky
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Hi Malky
Thanks for adding more. I think Hazelnuts and Looby have now eliminated that family (Alexander and Maggie) as their son James' death cert has been found, eliminating that family group sadly.
James Wilson born c.1872 in Paisley from his census entries from 1891, is still AWOL before 1891, unfortunately.
Monica
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Don't know if this info will be worth spending more Scotlands People Credits on Hazelnuts but.....
On the 1891 Census at Bathgate, West Lothian are 2 children born in Renfrewshire.
William J Wilson age 13 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSXR-PZ7
Catherine A Wilson age 12 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSXR-PZW
These 2 Children could be these 2 in Johnstone & Elderslie, Renfrewshire on the 1881
William J Wilson age 3 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKT-TNJ
Catherine Wilson age 2 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKT-TNV
There is also this boy in Johnstone & Elderslie on the 1881 - James Willson age 10- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKT-22Q Have you ruled him out? :)
Looby :)
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I think the children that you found, William and sister Catherine, likely this entry in 1891 Bathgate:
Alexander Wilson 40 oil work lab. b. Ireland
Elizabeth A Wilson 42 b. Ireland
William J Wilson 13 b. Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Catherine A Wilson 12 b. Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Ellen Wilson 10 Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Mary Jane Wilson 8 Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Alexander Wilson 4 Uphall West Lothian
Address: 61 Cochrane St, Bathgate
The other entry you mentioned from 1881, not sure who James is son of, but I think this is the entry:
Elizabeth Wilson 68 Formerly Hand-Loom Weaver b. Johnstone
Peter Wilson 36 son Elderslie, Renfrewshire
James Wilson 32 son Engineer at Works b. Elderslie, Renfrewshire
William Wilson 12
James Wilson 10
Annie Wilson 8 ? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQZK-7JC
Martha Wilson 6 ? https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ46-GHJ
William Wilson 4
Address: 9 High Street, Johnstone, Paisley Abbey
Not sure if William and James were born to other children for Elizabeth Snr.
Monica
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Just posting for background here, as a summary of what you may have added elsewhere Hazelnuts, the children for James and wife Helen Jones (from your online tree):
The marriage was in Bathgate in 1894 and then...
1893 Helen Jones Wilson...was Helen born before their marriage?
1895 John Wilson
1896 Robert Wilson
1897 Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson
1899 Isabella Waugh Jones wilson
1907 Elizabeth Wilson
From their 1911 census entry, have you established how many children they had living/deceased? Did 1911 also confirm Paisley for James' birth place?
What were the names of Helen Jones' parents?
Monica
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Drat,
I'd hoped that William and Catherine would give us a lead. >:(
I have wondered if James parents James or John Wilson and Margaret Gillon were Irish and perhaps married there, hence the reason we have struggled to find a marriage. My Wilson ancestors were Irish coming to Scotland pre -1841.
Trying to find James or John Wilsons is a nightmare!
The James Wilson on the 1881 at High Street Johnstone Paisley *looks* a possibilty.
Looby :)
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Hi Monica
Helen was born illegitimate in Lordscairnie, Moonzie, Fife - name on birth certificate Helen Reid Jones (don't know where the Reid comes in). The Wilson was just added on I think when they married.
I recently found a James Wilson (wife Margaret) 1871 census Ancestry.co.uk (aged 40) at that address but no James and could not find on 1881 census so got a bit lost and didn't get back to that one.
Only the infant Alfred died 1898 and Elizabeth when she was 26 years
The 1911 census shows them living in Glenelrig Lodge Slamannan with only the girls Isabella and Elizabeth - have not found John or Robert or Helen.
Renfrewshire Paisley is always given as James ' birthplace. Even 1911 census.
Hazelnuts01
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Hi Looby
I wondered about the Irish side and looked up computer records while in Dublin last summer but got no luck - I will not disregard the idea because it was just a quick look and the assistant did help but did not think I was on the right track there.
Helen Jones parents were from Ireland - Robert Jones and Mary Black. Both County Down but that is all the information the marriage cert gives.
Robert Jones parents given as Edward Jones and Elizabeth Waugh.
No parents given for Mary Black.
Hazelnuts01
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Hi Hazelnuts,
I'm really going off on a tangent here and wondering if James Wilson had changed his name -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQS-NJN
The above couple James McLauchlan (there are various spellings) and Margaret Gillan are married in Paisley in 1866 and have several children there.
Maybe grasping at straws for you but it's always a possibility ::)
Looby :)
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Hazelnuts, have you found Helen Jones in the earlier censuses up to her marriage in 1894, ie 1881 and 1891 censuses? Where and when was she born? Can't easily see a birth entry for an *el*en Reid Jones in the 1870s.
I saw this entry, which has lots of bells...but likely all not connected given she showed as born in Lanarkshire in 1901 after her marriage. This entry from the 1891 census:
Thomas Wilson 23 rivetter b. Anworth, Kirkcudbright
Martha Wilson 21 b. Paisley
William Wilson 1 month b. Clydebank, Dumbarton
Helen Jones 17 visitor b. Paisley
Address: 6 Union Str, Clydebank, Old Kilpatrick, Dumbartonshire
Monica
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I am confused :P
Helen Jones shows as born c. 1876/7 on her 1901 entry:
Just as additional background, this is 1901?
James Wilson 28, Oil Works Pit Headman, b. Paisley
Helen Wilson 24 b. Airdrie, Lanarkshire
Helen Wilson 8
John Wilson 6
Robert Wilson 4
Bella Wilson 1
Address: Barracks, Livingstone, West Lothian
You mentioned that Helen's parents were a Robert Jones and a Mary Black (also here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=219067.0) :
Marriage of parents 1855 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT1W-4LV
Birth of a Helen in 1865 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ91-8XC
That would make Helen a lot younger than James Wilson? What age did Helen show on her marriage cert/death/1911 census? Are you happy with her details (birth, parents' names etc.)?
Monica
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Hi Monica ,
That would make Helen a lot younger than James Wilson? What age did Helen show on her marriage cert/death/1911 census? Are you happy with her details (birth, parents' names etc.)?
quote from Monica
Don't you mean Helen would be a lot older than James Wilson?? She would be approx 29 when she married in 1894 to a 22 year old James. :-\
Looby :)
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Monica, I decided to look up the marriage of James and Helen on SP. Her age is given as 25, 3 years older than James. Wonder if she was being a little coy about her age!
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Helen Jones was born 1865 (wife of James Wilson) - gave her age as 25 on marriage certificate but born 1894.
Daughter of
Robert Jones 42 - carter - born Ireland
Mary Jones 39 Born Ireland
Children : Eliza 14 Mary 12 Sarah 10 Robert 8 Helen 5 Thomas 10 months living at 2 Wyllies Land Bathgate.
I did not find this one - Help from Rootschat in 2007.
Hazelnuts01
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Well, the 1855 marriage for Robert and Mary Black will give you lots of details on them certainly (place of birth etc. which is often the only clue on location of Irish births).
Lots of children showing for them:
Elizabeth 1856
Mary Jane 1858
Sarah 1860
Robert 1862
Helen 1865
Thomas 1870
Isabella Waugh 1872
An Elen Jones, 15, b. Airdrie working as a domestic dairymaid in Edinburgh in 1881. Likely in 1881, rest of the family?
Mary Jones 48 b Ireland
Mary J Jones 23 dairy serv.
Robt Jones 18 coal miner
Isabella Jones 10
Thomas Jones 12
Mary Higins 3 grandchild
Jessie Thomson 3 Months grandchild
Address: Main St. Jeffray'S Ld, Bathgate/Armadale
Hazelnut, sure you have this all after all this time. Just adding here to add additional detail to the family in case it throws up any extra or new clues really.
Monica
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Just interesting, in terms of names and the ones that crop up for the children of James Wilson and Helen Jones...they certainly don't seem to be strict in following any form Scottish naming pattern too closely ::)
The names we had from earlier following the 1894 marriage:
1893 Helen Reid Jones Wilson...see below*
1895 John Wilson - maybe James Wilson's father? Although, we also had the name of James
1896 Robert Wilson - Helen's father?
1897 Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson...see below**
1899 Isabella Waugh Jones wilson - a sister of Helen's born 1872
...are we missing some children in this 8 year gap? What does the 1911 census say in terms of number of children they had?
1907 Elizabeth Wilson ?
*In 1891, 'Ellen' Jones was still working as a dairy maid in Edinburgh at the household of John and Helen P Reid in Edinburgh. They had seven children and a large number of dairy servants listed at 200 Morningside Road, Newington, Edinburgh. Reid for Helen Reid Jones b. 1893...could this be the source of the surname Reid? Her sister, Isabella W Jones, 17 b. Bathgate, also shows as working there.
** Within the names of Dairy Servants included in the 1891 listing is Alfred Andw Sangster, 20, dairy servant b. St: Cuthberts, Edinburgh.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
Well they certainly haven't used James's mothers name Margaret or any middle name relating to his side which is also unusual.
Looby :)
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Hi monica
Wow! That is fantastic - what a lot of information you have come up with. I got to Helen Jones living in Edinburgh with her married sister then found her in Fife prior to her marriage.
Thank you so much - that gives me a lot more to go on.
I don't know of any more children to James and Helen Wilson.
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Alfred andrew sangster married isabella jones 1893 in Edinburgh so that sorts out all the origin of
the names for me. I suspect John and possibly Elizabeth (without middle names) MAY have come from James' side of the family. Still working on it! ??? ???