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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: fetlar13 on Thursday 24 April 14 12:40 BST (UK)
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Afternoon
I'm trying to find out more info to try and solve a family mystery. My late Mum's cousin Barbara was a Banks before marriage. I can trace her tree back to a Sarah Banks born 1833 who had at least 9 children, one of whom Walter (born 1863) is Barbara's Great Grandfather.
The theory regarding Frederick Banks who was married to an Emma Jane Stubbs, with whom he has at least 10 children is the same Frederick Banks who was the father of Sarah Banks (her maiden name by the way is Banks) 9 or more children. Frederick was a very rich Jeweller who died in the City Asylum in 1906 leaving nearly £20,000 to his legitimate son Charles.
Does anyone have any info about the Jewellery business run by Frederick, who is shown on the 1881 census as employing 18 men, 18 boys and 1 girl. I'd love to make the link to confirm that Frederick had two families, one wife (Emma) and 1 misstress Sarah.
Thanks in advance
Steve
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Who is named as the father on the birth certs of Sarah' s 9 children?
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Here is Sarah and children in 1871 - you most probably have it already, but it sometimes helps to have the info in front of us
100 Bridge Street
Sarah Banks widow 38 stay maker
John 19 chaser
Frederick 16 chaser
Susan 13
Samuel 11
Walter 8
Emma 5
Frank 3 all bn Birmingham
And 1861
Sarah 28 unm staymaker
Arthur 9 chaser
Frederick 6
Susan 3
Samuel 13mths
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Birth certs? I'm doing this research a a favour for an OAP, so it's got to be on the cheap!
There are records such as an adult baptism for Sarah's son Arthur which names Frederick Banks, Jeweller as the name and profession of his father. Also son Samual marries a Louisa Hortin and names Frederick Banks, Jeweller as his father. Frederick's legimate family lives in Warstone Lane about a 10 minute walk from Sarah in Upper Hockley Street.
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Birth certs? I'm doing this research a a favour for an OAP, so it's got to be on the cheap!
I dont think you will ever reliably make progress without a bit of outlay.
If Sarah does not name the father of the children (or at least Walter if that is your friends main interest) on tbhe birth cert, then you will only be using guesswork, which will be no more progress than now.
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Lizdb
Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Steve
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Birmingham baptisms marriages & deaths are available to view on Ancestry.
You can see the originals without having to but the certificates.
If you aren“t a member of Ancestry, you can view it at your local library.
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mrsuz
Thanks for the tip, problem is that I'm not on ancestry, but know people who are, I may have to beg a favour. Library idea, good but up here on the Wirral, the libraries only seem to be open on days with a Z in them and then for only an hour or two at most!!
Cheers
Steve
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A Baptism for Arthur Edward Banks 14/4/1876; parents Frederick & Sarah; Jeweller.
Add: Heath ? St.
You can see the originals without having to but the certificates.
I'm afraid this isn't quite the case.
Baptisms aren't the same as the original Birth certs.
A child may have it's birth registered but not necessarily be Baptised.Also a Baptismal record won't give mother's maiden name & usually doesn't give DOB.
I'm afraid there's no substitute for a birth cert. to establish who someone is.
These are all the Banks marriages I can find with Frederick, jeweller as father:
Frederick b.1854 m. 1888 father listed deceased.
Samuel b.1859 m.1882
Florence b.1864 wit: Frederick Sidney Banks & Emma Banks
Emma b.1865 m. 1887 father listed deceased.
William b.1866 m.1888
Annie b.1867 m.1887 father listed deceased.
Looks like the children of Sarah all believe their father is dead.
There's only 1 Frederick Banks in B'ham & that's the one you've found.
Trade Directories;
1858; 83 1/2 Carver St. home address given as 7 Morton St.
1862-66; 76 Carver St.
1868; 149 Warstone Lane. Here until 1905.
Variously listed as Jeweller, Goldsmith & Jeweller, Jeweller & Silversmith & Manufacturing Jeweller.
1908: Frederick Jnr. has the business.
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Birth certificates weren“t issued until 1837, so prior to that, only the info from the baptism was available.
Certainly what you say is true of post 1837 births
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jim1
Thanks very much. You've got more info than I had and yes Sarah does seem to be telling the Registrars that her husband is dead. In that case who's fathering all the kids, sounds like a story of convenience for a kept woman? What the children believe seems to come out later as they marry and state that Frederick Banks, Jeweller is their father?
The info about Frederick's business and home addresses are great thanks! I knew about the Warstone Lane address and found it a spooky coincidence, that it is now located right next to an apartment block called The Buttonbox. Young Fredrick Banks started his working life as a Pearl Button maker and was his father Theophilus Banks! I don't know Birmingham very well but I believe that button making was a big trade down there back in the day.
To me it appears that the one and only Frederick Banks was a bit of a lad and what a story for my cousin to tell her grandchildren!
Thanks again for your help
Steve
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I dont think it is Sarah saying he is dead - it is the children when they marry.
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I see Frederick left a will when he died, a rich man, in 1906.
Now that would be worth saving up and sending for, to see if he makes any mention of his second family. If so, you have your proof easily.
Probate index entry-
Frederick Banks of the City Asylum Lodge Road Birmingham died 3:Nov 1906 Probate to Charles Banks Gentleman
Effects £19,916 10s 8d
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lizdb
After a second careful (and now fully awake look) you're right about the kids claiming their father id dead. As for Frederick Banks he died in the City Asylum in November 1906 and his will was read on December 14th and he left it all to his legitimate son Charles. That £19.916 10s 6d would be worth over £2,000,000 in today's money!
Thanks again
Steve
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You might find this of interest:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~billburgoyne/button%20trade.htm
Warstone Lane was at the heart of the Jewellery quarter & still is to this day.
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After a second careful (and now fully awake look) you're right about the kids claiming their father id dead. As for Frederick Banks he died in the City Asylum in November 1906 and his will was read on December 14th and he left it all to his legitimate son Charles. That £19.916 10s 6d would be worth over £2,000,000 in today's money!
So you have a copy of the will?
Probate was granted on 14th Dec (not sure how you know what day the will was read!!!!!l) , and that was granted to Charles, so that means it was Charles's responsibility to carry out the wishes expressed in the Will.. But that doesnt mean he left the estate to Charles. You need the actual will to see how his estate was left. It would be sad to think he left such a large estate and made no provision for Sarahs children if he was their father.
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He didn't get the business as that went to Frederick Jnr.
It should make an interesting read though.
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Liz & Jim
I'm making leaps of assumption again aren't I? No I haven't see the will and I've no idea how I'd get to see it?
Steve
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All you need to know is on here somewhere
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills
Unfortunately, I think the price has just gone up.
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Thanks!
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I have a small connection here with Frederick Banks. I believe his daughter Emma Moody (nee Banks) married my grandfather Arthur Albert Sear in 1902. Unfortunately, both she and their child, also named Emma and aged 0yrs, died in 1904 aged 29yrs. Emma Sears nee Banks was formerly Emma Moody widow of George Moody and had several children with him. I am researching Arthur Albert Sear (born 1873) who married Annie (born 1874) in the same year (1904). Any information relating to him or his son of the same name (born 1906) would be most welcome.
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Hello & welcome.
It would of benefit to you if you started a new post as
more people will see it that way.
In the meantime I'll take a look.
It's also of benefit if you are a bit more specific in what you
are looking for in order to save on duplicating what you
already have.
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Unsure if you have this information?
Frederick Banks is resting in Warstone Lane cemetery in Hockley, Birmingham also known as the Jewellery Quarter.
His rests with his wife Emma Jane Banks who was laid to rest in 1896 in Section N, Plot number 363.
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Many thanks to all who have contributed to discovering the intriguing life of Frederick Banks. Accessing his will on the government probate website has proved fruitless so far as their payment process is full of glitches. I spent an unproductive day at the Library of Birmingham Local History Department searching for his obituary in the newspapers but could not find one. Similarly, his proof mark ("FSB") did not appear in any of their reference books. There is, however, an amount of trinkets of his making listed for sale on eBay and which clearly show it (or possibly his son's).