RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: CircuitW1zard on Wednesday 23 April 14 12:17 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
I have an ancestor (Charles Fisher - Watchmaker) born 1775/6 who was in the above. I have located his Chelsea Pensioner discharge document but wondered if anyone knows if a document should exist for him going into the army?
Regards,
Rob Fisher
-
Attestation document, I presume they are at Kew. If there, you know the Regiment, so should have no problem. As he went to pension and was a Chelsea Pensioner he should have a personal service record also.
Attestation would be by an NCO, named, date of attestation, place of birth, age, occupation, height, complexion, eyes colour, hair colour, face shape.
Personal records were detailed.
The Regiment was in the Low Countries 1793-1796 (French Revolutionary War), 1809-1814 Spain and France, also at Waterloo 1815.
The official title at this period was 16th (The Queens) Regiment of (Light) Dragoons.
Roger
-
Thanks Roger.
Looks like I may have to make my first visit to Kew. Is it difficult once there to find the documents?
Regards,
Rob
-
Hello Rob,
My researches there were not of the records you need. The system and the Staff are very helpful. I don't know where you live but if far away, it would be best to contact them first. Your ace card is you know the Regiment, the records you need are sorted first by regiment, then by individual. No doubt they have a website and contact details. They might do it for you, but it will cost.
Best Wishes,
Roger
-
There are no individual documents from this period in Kew. The PRO/National Archives put them on microfilm about 15/20 years ago. The Friends indexed the microfilms for men discharged to pension up to1854. These indexes are still on the NA Catalogue. Findmypast were given access to the originals. These had come from Chelsea Hospital who managed the pensions. Kew took away the microfilms about four years ago once FindMyPast had them online.
Less than say 10% include the Attestation Forms. The rest just include what you have - the Discharge Form.
Ken
-
Ah, the curse of privatisation Ken. Hopefully, Rob might find what he's looking for via the Links you provided. Again at a price. I have found personal service and attestation records on the net. My GGGrandfather became of military age in 1808/09 (you had to belong to something if fit), so I was looking for him (unsuccessfully). Attestation papers may be found in County Record offices.
Roger
-
Thanks for the responses all.
He joined the dragoons in 1793 and was there until 1800 when he was discharged with bad health.
I still might head to the records office as it'll be a new experience for me.
I have the Chelsea Pensioner discharge form from findmypast
Just finding it difficult to track down exactly where he was born and his parents so thought this would be a good lead.
Thanks,
Rob
-
Do you know what County your family lived in then. As I said attestation forms can be found in County Records. So, he was in just the Low Countries campaign possibly. The 'Allies' lost. The future Duke of Wellington was colonel of the 33rd Regiment. There, he learned 'what not to do'.
Kew is a delightful place to visit, got a nice cafe too.
Roger
-
On his discharge form it states that he was born in the Parish of St Mary in or near Coventry.
So I'm assuming it's Warwickshire. There are multiple St Mary's churches in the Coventry area and as yet I haven't found a record. It doesn't help that a lot of Coventry records are now lost due to flood and fire years ago.
I found a nice book online that documents exactly where the Regiment were on a year by year basis. Very informative.
Rob
-
If you go to Kew you could look at the muster books. There are three covering his period - 1800, 1798-99 and 1776 to 1797. The last will be on 2 ft square parchment and will only tell you where the Paymaster was when he signed the return. The later ones should tell where each man was for the monthly muster. But there are no guarantees what information was recorded.
As an aside if your book only records one location this will be where the CO was. Cavalry regiments could be split into detachments of say 1-3 troops, spread over a wide area.
Ken
-
A very useful post Ken. At least part of the 16th Light Dragoons were in America (and 17th Light Dragoons) 1776 to 1778. At least parts of these two regiments were part of the infamous British Legion commanded by Lieut. Colonel Banastre Tarleton (local rank)(aka the butcher)(see 'The Patriot' on youtube). That was an all arms formation, infantry, cavalry and artillery mainly composed of American loyalists. Tarleton had been a junior officer in the Kings Dragoon Guards and went out to America with Lord Cornwallis. As the war went on, more and more regiments were withdrawn to UK as France, Spain and Holland came out against us.
Contrary to the fate of Tarleton in 'The Patriot', he was MP for Liverpool in the 1790's, promoted full general in 1813 and died in 1833. He was under consideration as commander in the Peninsular vs the future Duke of Wellington.
He is credited with the design of the 'Tarleton' helmet and worn by Light Dragoons from c1790 to 1811. Their red coats were replaced by blue shell jackets and this uniform was a particular favourite of King George III.
-
Hi Rob - you mentioned a book you found online that documents the location of the 16th Light Dragoons, year by year. What was the name of this please? I've just found one of my wifes relatives was in from 1793 to 1806'ish and would be interested to see where they fought. The sad thing was his wife believed him to have died abt 1800 and had re-married when he returned
Thanks
Ian
-
Hi Ian
The book will not help you as in 1793 the regiment were serving in multiply locations. About four troops were in Flanders and two troops were in the West Indies. The remaining 2-3 troops would have formed a Depot somewhere within the UK. In order to discover where an individual soldier was based you need to look at the muster books in the National Archives.
They were back in England in 1796 and went to Ireland in 1803, until returning to England (Guildford) in December 1805. Even when they were at home it was normal to have 1-2 troop detachments over a wide area, to supplement the small police force that then existed. So muster lookups are essential if you are looking for an individual soldier.
Ken
-
Hi Ian,
Just incase you do want the link it is at the below:-
https://archive.org/details/cihm_48350
Regards,
Rob