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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Philezra on Monday 21 April 14 17:37 BST (UK)

Title: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Monday 21 April 14 17:37 BST (UK)
Right - I have my father's side of the family back in the early part of the 1800s.

Joseph Barrow married Alice Walch on 17 dec 1802 in Bolton-le-Moors.

They had 10 children;

Samuel             baptised 6 Nov 1803
Robert                           5 Feb 1806
Benj                              28 Aug 1808
Ralph                            27 Nov 1811
Sarah                           30 May 1813
Jno                               28 May 1815
Ann                              25 Jan 1818
Jos                               20 Aug 1820
Jas                               3 Nov 1822
Betty                            20 Nov 1825

Apart from a marriage in India that I know about, I can find no marriages for this family in Bolton-Le-Moors neither any burials.

Nor can I find any trace in the 1841, 1851 or 1861 census...........

I may have a marriage for Sarah, 1 Jan 1834 to Joseph Walker and may have a burial for Ann in 1834 (there is no name for father though..).

Yes, they may have married in other parishes but I only know definite information for Ralph who married in India.

Phil

thank you


Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 22 April 14 08:00 BST (UK)
Hi
Have you ruled this marriage out?


James BARROW and  Jane RIDINGS in 1842 at Bolton, St Mary the Virgin, Deane Parish Church Bolton

Heather
 
 
     
 
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 22 April 14 08:04 BST (UK)

 James BARROW and  Esther KIRKMAN in 1845 at Bolton, St Peter
 Joseph BARROW and  Eliza GASKELL in 1845 at Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended 

Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 22 April 14 08:10 BST (UK)
I wondered about this family as they had named the children Alice, James and Betty
1841
Turton Street, Bolton Le Moors
John Howarth  25
 Mary Howarth  30
 Alice Howarth  13
 James Howarth  12
 Ellen Howarth  10
 Betty Howarth  1
 Alice Barrow  50 Cotton doubler
 Joseph Barrow  20
536/8/11/15

Heather

added: I think that this one can be ignored as Betty born 1840 has mother's maiden name Lealand
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Mrs. AB on Tuesday 22 April 14 13:45 BST (UK)
There's a Benjamin Barrow aged 42 born Bolton with wife E aged 46 b Spotland and children M (female) 15 b Heywood and J (male) 8 b Heywood living at Albert Street in Heywood in the parish of Heap in 1851.

LancsBMD has a birth for a Joseph Barrow in 1842 in Heywood, Rochdale mmn Lees.

Tracking back to 1841 on Bank Street, Heywood,
Benjamin Barrow 30, Ester 30 with children Mary aged 5 and Samuel aged 3
with James Barrow aged 15 and Betty Barrow aged 15 shown as living with Benjamin, Ester and family (parish of Heap)
James and Betty possibly the last two children from your list baptised 1822 and 1825 respectively.

Lancs OPC has this marriage

Marriage on 10 Jun 1832 St Chad, Rochdale
 Benjamin Barrow - (X), Weaver, Small Bridge
 Esther Lees - (X), Spinster, Small Bridge
     Witnesses John Grindrod; J. Hollows
     
Baptisms

15 May 1836 St James, Ashworth, Lancs.
 Mary Barrow - Daughter of Benjamin Barrow & Esther
     Abode: Heywood
     Occupation: Weaver

16 Sep 1838 St James, Ashworth, Lancs.
 Samuel Barrow - Son of Benjamin Barrow & Esther
     Abode: Bank Street, Heywood
     Occupation: Weaver

This may help, if only to eliminate.
AB
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 22 April 14 17:39 BST (UK)
Marriage;
10 Feb 1859, St Mary the Virgin, Bury
BENJAMIN Barrow age 50, Widower, Labourer of Heywood, Father JOSEPH Barrow, Occp Weaver
Ann WHITWORTH age 40, Spinster, Father WILLIAM Whitworth, Occp Weaver
(FreeREG)

1861 Census Benjamin is born c 1809 Bolton, Ann 1818, Sons Samuel 1839 and Joseph 1843. Anns Father is there also :)
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Tuesday 22 April 14 19:36 BST (UK)
Thank you for these findings - terrific of you.

The Benjamin marriage with James and Betty looks almost certain - I'm assuming that parents Joseph and Alice died between 1825 and 1841??

Heather - who is the Joseph aged 20 with the Howarth family? Alice cannot be the mother as she is too young.

There is a marriage for Betty Barrow in 1852 , Bolton, but cannot find a Betty RUDLEN or BLYTHING in 1861 census.

Can deaths be found for the parents?
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Tuesday 02 May 17 12:10 BST (UK)
Further to previous messages, I wonder if anyone may be able to help with the specific challenge of finding Betty? Baptised on 20 Nov 1825, she should, in theory, be on the 1841 census unless she died.

The parents seem to have died.....

Can anyone shed some light on this missing person?

Have not made any progress in connection with finding marriages for her siblings except for Benjamin.

Phil

Thank you
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 02 May 17 15:29 BST (UK)
Possible Marriages for Elizabeth Barrow from Lancs OPC.
26th Nov. 1843 St. Mary, Deane, to Thomas Knowles. Father Joseph.
1850 St. Mary, Deane, to Thomas Howarth. Bride's father John Burrows.
1858 Bolton, Betsy Burrows to John Yates, bride's father Joseph.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Tuesday 02 May 17 19:32 BST (UK)
Thank you for this.

I suppose people baptised as Betty could be known as Elizabeth later on.

Confuses matters!
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Tuesday 02 May 17 21:22 BST (UK)
The Howarth one is interesting because it does tend to tie in with Alice (mother) and Joseph (a sibling)..................no idea what the link with the Howarth family is though...........more than a coincidence?
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 02 May 17 23:46 BST (UK)
Betty/Elizabeth was a very popular name in Lancashire 18th-19th century. So popular one set of my 2xG grandparents used it for 2 of their 4 daughters. The great-aunt of those 2 sisters was Elizabeth in the Catholic baptism register, Betty in the C. of E. parish church births & baptisms register (in the same week), Elizabeth in her will and Betsey on her death certificate a few months later. Your Ann could be Annie, Nan, Nanny or Nancy on different records. 2 of my Irish grannies were known as Ann/Annie but were christened Honour/ Honoria. All variations of the name were on birth, marriage & death certs and church registers. One was also Hanoria and Hannnah on 2 census transcriptions.
I included the Betty marriage to Howarth although father was John. Howarth/Haworth is a very common name in Lancashire so there may be no connection.
The 1858 marriage was to a widower.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 03 May 17 00:43 BST (UK)
1857 death Esther Barrow (52).
Burial Aug. 1857 St. James, Ashworth, Esther Barrow (52), wife of Benjamin, Heywood. (Lancs. OPC)
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: lancsann on Wednesday 03 May 17 14:19 BST (UK)
and Benjamin's re-marriage

Marriage: 10 Feb 1859 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire, England
Benjamin Barrow - (X), 50, Labourer, Widower, Heywood
Ann Whitworth - (X), 40, Spinster, Heywood
    Groom's Father: Joseph Barrow, Weaver
    Bride's Father: William Whitworth, Weaver
    Witness: James Bratt; Charles Whitehead

sorry just noticed Trish had already posted this
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Wednesday 03 May 17 14:29 BST (UK)
Thank you anyway.

Can we assume that Joseph is still living as I cannot find him in either 1841 or 1851 census....??
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 03 May 17 22:22 BST (UK)
2 possible burials on Lancs. OPC of Joseph Barrow. Bolton 1825; Deane 1837.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Wednesday 03 May 17 22:59 BST (UK)
Would a father's occupation he listed even if he had died? Thinking of Benj's 2nd marriage.....
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Wednesday 03 May 17 23:20 BST (UK)
Was looking at 1851 census for Benj and Esther. No Samuel.....

He is with Samuel (Uncle) and wife Sarah. Looks as if her maiden name was Gaskell.

There is also possible marriage between Joseph Barrow and Eliza Gaskell so I could be on track here!
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 04 May 17 11:22 BST (UK)
2 possible burials on Lancs. OPC of Joseph Barrow. Bolton 1825; Deane 1837.

to give ages & place of death

Burial: 16 Feb 1837 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancashire, England
Joseph Barrow -
    Age: 54 yrs
    Abode: Halliwell

Burial: 22 Aug 1825 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Joseph Barrow -
    Age: 68 years
    Abode: Great Bolton

Unfortunately Joseph Barrow seems to be a popular name in the Bolton area.

The Joseph who died in 1825 would have been 45 when he married in 1802
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 04 May 17 11:54 BST (UK)
1851 for Samuel Barrow & Sarah (Gaskell)

   
Name   Age
Samuel Barrow   47 - tailor employing 2 people
Sarah Barrow   45
Isaac Barrow   8
Sarah Barrow   6
Anna Barrow   4
Samuel Barrow   12 - nephew
Mary Ainsworth   19

The nephew Sam - there is a Samuel of the right age born to Benjamin and Esther

Samuel's death on 2 Feb 1869 in Radcliffe has a will. I can't copy the probate record but probate is granted to son Isaac (bookkeeper) and Sarah Barrow spinster daughter and (interestingly in light of a previous post) Thomas Howarth (estate agent) Effects under £3000
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Thursday 04 May 17 13:20 BST (UK)
Fantastic stuff!! The death for Joseph ties in with his birth/baptism 1782....

Funny how the Howarth family crops up - can I obtain this will for Samuel?

Thank you so much
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: lancsann on Thursday 04 May 17 16:48 BST (UK)
Isaac & Sarah in 1871 (mistranscribed) and Isaac is now a wholesale clothier

living in Chorlton upon Mewdlock


Name   Age
Isaac Barron   28
Sarah Barron   26 sister
Agnes Wilson   19 (servant)
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Thursday 04 May 17 16:56 BST (UK)
So much of mine is mistranscribed...I'm sure many of us say that!!!

Thank you once more. Just need Anna now although I think I may have found her as HANNAH in 1861 as a servant...maybe...!
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Thursday 04 May 17 16:57 BST (UK)
....and Sarah's marriage in November 1872 to Thomas Wardrop.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Tuesday 09 May 17 13:14 BST (UK)
Thank you all for your great help - still unsure about James marriage and Joseph and Betty seem to have gone awol after 1841 census.....

THREE questions: a) what is a "crofter" (all definitions seem to relate to a Scottish term....)
b) what would a "manufacturer" cover?

lastly, c) going back to the HOWARTH family (that had Alice and Joseph Barrow in 1841), the ages of the "parents" are very very young - the subsequent census in 1851 and 1861 do have these same people there though............!! am trying to find a marriage for John Howarth and work out a link to the Barrow family and also who he married and at what age.....??

Phil
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 09 May 17 14:06 BST (UK)
A crofter is/was a person farming a small acreage of land, perhaps combining it with another source of income, e.g. weaving. Pocket Oxford Dictionary defines croft as "small piece of arable land close to house". The word croft was known or presumed to have been in use in the Old-English period. An occupant of one of the farms I've been researching described himself as crofter on 1841 census whilst his neighbours gave their occupations as farmers. A 20th/21st C. description of all of them might be "smallholder". These farms were a few miles from Bolton.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: herefords on Thursday 14 September 17 05:53 BST (UK)
Hello,
I am interested in the children of Isaac Barrow and wife Betty(Elizabeth?) Atkinson. I believe two of their daughters came to Australia aftery marrying in Bolton.

Please be in touch if any links.

Elizabeth
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Thursday 14 September 17 13:13 BST (UK)
There is a Hannah bapt 2 Oct 1814 in Atherton and an Alice bapt 29 June 1817 in Bolton.

Neither are part of my family though.

Phil
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: herefords on Thursday 14 September 17 22:24 BST (UK)
Thank you Phil. My other families are Farrand, Broughton, Moon, Kirkman and I think, Hulme.
Good luck with your hunt and thanks for the quick reply.  Elizabeth

Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 14 September 17 23:24 BST (UK)
[quote author=Philezra link=topic=684676.msg6240117#msg6240117 date=1494332097
THREE questions: a) what is a "crofter" (all definitions seem to relate to a Scottish term....)
Phil
[/quote]
Addendum to my previous reply. Another meaning of the occupation of crofter is connected with bleaching textiles.  A croft bleacher worked at bleaching cloth and spread it out in enclosed fields or "crofts". Before the introduction of chemical methods of bleaching, cloth was bleached by sunlight. The process took weeks. Bleachers were often called Whitsters or Whitelimers. A Manchester Trades Directory of 1772 has a list of Crofters and Whitsters.
See Hall Genealogy Website- Old Occupation Names.
 www. mhh.co.uk/occup/c2.html
The 2nd definition of crofter has a link to more information.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Thursday 14 September 17 23:29 BST (UK)
Thank you for this additional definition.

Phil

Not sure which one would have applied!!
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 14 September 17 23:43 BST (UK)
Thank you for this additional definition.

Phil

Not sure which one would have applied!!
Who was a crofter and when? Where was he living i.e. his actual address if you know it? What were occupations of members of his family?
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: wrjones on Friday 15 September 17 00:04 BST (UK)
Thank you Phil. My other families are Farrand, Broughton, Moon, Kirkman and I think, Hulme.
Good luck with your hunt and thanks for the quick reply.  Elizabeth

Are your Kirkman family also from Bolton?

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 15 September 17 01:00 BST (UK)
Thank you Phil. My other families are Farrand, Broughton, Moon, Kirkman and I think, Hulme.
Good luck with your hunt and thanks for the quick reply.  Elizabeth
Where was your Moon family from? My Moon family lived for a while in Bolton.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: herefords on Thursday 21 September 17 03:33 BST (UK)
Hello, both "my" Moon and Kirkman families were intermarried with Barrows, Farrands and Atkinson families. From memory, Edward Wright Moon married Alice Barrow, Betty Atkinson married Isaac Barrow and Wm Farrand senior married Mary Wrigley, his son Wm married Mary Barrow. Yes, the Kirkmans were mixed in too. I do not have my "stuff" with me at the moment but most of the above were in Bolton between 1800-1850 ish and some if not all ended up in Australia, one of the Farrands married Frederick Trollope, the son of the author Anthony Trollope.
Title: Re: Barrow family - Bolton - need help with marriages and 1841 census
Post by: Philezra on Monday 17 April 23 17:39 BST (UK)
Hi - I'm revisiting this one after a while.

There is a possibility that James Barrow could have married Esther Kirkman in 1845. James's father is listed as Josiah, a publican.

I know that a sibling, Samuel married Sarah Gaskell in 1841 but I cannot see any reference to his father anywhere.

When Benjamin marries for the second, time, to Ann Whitworth, in 1859, father is Joseph, a weaver (he had died by this time).

I have the father as Joseph (wife is Alice) but he passed away pre-1841, so no census confirmation. I presume the name Josiah is not a variant of Joseph.....

So, does this, in effect, rule out the marriage between James and Esther Kirkman? - complete change of occupation allied to different christian name.

Cannot find marriages for John, Ann, Joseph or Betty which hinders any verification.