RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: bgoodman on Monday 21 April 14 16:48 BST (UK)
-
Hi, I am from Hertfordshire UK and am on the Hertfordshire UK forum. I have discovered Thomas Goodman on Paperpast-Dominion NZ 12th April 1913, Volume 6, Issue 1722. It reads as follows:
"The court also dealt with an application concerning a missing nephew of Thomas Goodman, late of Hillgrove, Otago, labourer, who died on December 2 1907 and of whose estate the public trustee is administrator. The estate became divisible between the deceased's sister, Mrs Eliza Seabrook, of Watford Herts, son of deceased's brother George. All trace of the nephew has been lost since 1899, when he is supposed to have left London for Canada. Advertisements inserted in English and Canadian newspapers have failed to trace the missing man, and the court made an order for payment of the residue of the estate to Mrs Seabrook."
I have posted on the NZ forum for info on Thomas. However, George 'the nephew' is my grandfather's brother who was born in Rickmansworth Hertfordshire UK in 1881. George's father was also named George. George senior died in 1888. George, his son, was in a R/C boys home in Watford in the 1891census. Please help if you can re where I could look for information. I tried looking at Canada passenger lists on family search but was not successful. I may have not been successful because of my method of searching!
I know that my grandfather Hubert went to live in Ireland with his mother, Mary Goodman, (nee McCarthy). I was aware that my grandfather had tried to find his brother at some point by putting an advertisement in a newspaper. His sister was put in a girl's home also in Watford, Herts, although I am aware that she died and is buried in Watford, Hertfordshire, UK. Thank you if you can help at all.
-
what is georges date of birth & parents names & place of birth :)
-
Hi ballydw, thank you for your reply. George was born in Rickmansworth Hertfordshire UK, in 1881. I have his birth cert. His father was George Goodman also. His mother Mary Goodman, nee McCarthy. His mother would have returned to Ireland by 1899 and his father had previously died, 1888.
-
Have you looked at Military records in your search for George? There seems to be a military history in the family i.e his father George & brother Hubert.
There is a ship passenger record of a Private George Goodman arriving in Quebec 11th July 1919 Departing Liverpool on The Empress of Britain.
Do you have any records of him after 1891 in the home in Watford? When Mary moved to Ireland in c 1888 do you know why george didnt go with her as son Hubert did? :)
-
Hi, thank you again for your post. I did try looking at military records previously, although I didn't find anything likely. That chap that you mentioned may be worth exploring though. I have no information other than George in the boy's home in 1891. I know he was named George Joseph in 1881, his mother was RC. She brought my grand father Hubert up as RC. George may have remained RC after he left the boy's home. I tried the Catholic archives in London UK but there were no records available.
I know what you mean about leaving some of the children in Watford. Mary left her daughter Mary Katherine (Catherine), b. 1879, in Watford also. This poor lass died at abt 14yrs from meningitis. Mary's other children, including her husband, had died. I guess Hubert would have been the youngest. It appears that she buried a child in Feb 1894 and took her midwifery exam fairly soon after that. It does seem that she was interested
in bettering herself. I suppose she had to support herself, especially living in Ireland.
-
Hi, a further article in Otago Daily Times NZ, (Papers Past), mention placing advertisements in Montreal Newspapers. I wonder if anyone could help re a similar Canadian version of Papers Past in finding lost relatives. It appears George may have also used his mother's maiden name of McCarthy instead of Goodman according to the reference in the newspaper article.
-
It is very fiddlely but you can browse The Montreal Star for free at this link. It is not indexed. Put the year you would like into the date box and read through.
http://news.google.ca/newspapers?nid=Fr8DH2VBP9sC&dat=19330508&b_mode=2&hl=en
PB
-
Thank you PB for that. I will give it a go.
-
Hi, it has been some time since I posted on the Canadian site. I didn't have much luck with searching the Canadian newspapers online for George Joseph Goodman. My family seem to think that he did join the army although this belief was not substantiated in any way. Rootschatter Ballydw did mention a George leaving Liverpool on the Empress ship in 1919, although I have not been able to get any further with researching that chap.
I recently had a look at FindMyPast, however, I only have access to the UK information. I found some British WW1 George J Goodman people although very few had records as such. The transcription page was limited in that no place of birth was given in most George J Goodman entries.
I was thinking of following the Canadian lead considering it was believed that George had boarded a ship for Canada, late 1890s. I did see that there was an entry for a George J Goodman under the following heading.
Canada-Officers and men in the First Canadian Contingent 1914.
Does anyone have access to these records or happen to know where I could gain access, other than FindMyPast. Thank you.
-
WWI records for men who signed up for the CEF are online at the Canadian archives:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx
Don't see him, though (there are several other George Goodman entries).
Where did you see the "Officers and men in the First Canadian Contingent 1914" reference?
What was his exact birthdate? He may have jiggled age up or down (to get into or get out of military service, because he married a woman who was significantly older or younger than him, etc), but birthdays are often kept even when "year of birth" wanders.
Perhaps the family assumed he'd gone to Canada when he disappeared (he'd talked about it/been planning it/had connections there) but for whatever reason he didn't or headed elsewhere.
-
Hi, thank you for replying. I am aware at present therefore have limited Internet access. I will look at your link in more detail when I am back home again. I found that information on Find my Past. I only had access to the UK sites. The info mentioned was just a heading. George was born 1881, Rickmansworth UK. You are probably right about George not actually going to Canada but I feel that I have to give it a shot. Thank you again.
-
Hi Jorose, I looked at the link that you were good enough to post. Even with the 'wandering' different birth years in mind, those George Goodman folk do not look likely at all. You were quite right about that. I know for certain that George's birth certificate had George Joseph entered for his Christian names. He may not have used Joseph much day to day. However, as the names listed from the link included second names, it helped to discount those folk. I have no idea whether there were other family members in Canada. He did have an uncle in New Zealand and one in Tasmania. There was another uncle, William Goodman baptised 1804, but I have been unable to locate him at all. I even wondered if William went to Canada but I haven't found anything to suggest that he did. I guess George Goodman remains missing for now.
-
Hi everyone, it has been some time since I last posted on this forum. Something of interest has been brought to my attention on a Canadian Census. I will just recap first on George Goodman
I am still searching for George Goodman b.1881, Rickmansworth UK. He supposedly boarded a boat for Canada 1890s. I did wonder if he joined the military.
His father died in 1888 Rickmansworth UK and he was put into a Boy's Home. His mother returned to Ireland, with her youngest child, my grandfather, Hubert Goodman.
An Aunt, Mrs Seabrook, and George were mentioned in a probate in the 1900s. A search was done for him, at that time, but with no success. His mother's maiden name, McCarthy, was referred to in one newspaper article also. It appeared that both names were used in an attempt to locate him. George Goodman and George McCarthy.
Recently, a friend found a George McCarthy on the 1911 census in Saskatchewan. He was down as a cousin to Frederick Gristwood. The Goodman family, descendant from Thomas Goodman b.1766, Wiltshire UK, lived in Rickmansworth and married people, at least twice, with the surname Gristwood. I am, therefore, under the impression that this is George Goodman, alias McCarthy, despite the difference in birth month and year. George Goodman was born on 4th July 1881. Hopefully the link, as follows, will work.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=40125
Fred and Kate Girstwood are still in Saskatchewan 1916 census but George was not found.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/pages/about-census.aspx
Neither was he found on the passenger list. Another friend managed to find Fred and Kate, on the passenger list, going under the name of George & Mrs Gristwood in 1907.
I wonder again if, at some point, whether George joined the military, but as alias George McCarthy. I would be grateful for any help in locating George, before or after the 1911 census. Any further information on that particular Gristwood family would also be welcome. Thank you.
-
The/A Gristwood family are close to the Goodmans in Ricky.
The Gristwood family are still local to the area.
What have we missed?
Ray
-
I am, therefore, under the impression that this is George Goodman, alias McCarthy, despite the difference in birth month and year. George Goodman was born on 4th July 1881. Hopefully the link, as follows, will work.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=40125
It's more than just the birth information that is different. It also says that George immigrated to Canada in 1907.
Jacquie
-
Hi Ray & all. Maddie, from Rootschat, Hertfordshire, (England), forum, has kindly looked up Gristwood details. I guess, some of those Rickmansworth Gristwood folk did emigrate too. James Goodman & Louise Gristwood married in Rickmansworth. Maddie is referring to that line. Although all those Goodman men are descendant from Thomas Goodman b. 1766, who moved to Rickmansworth, married and fathered several children. Maddie's comments as below.
"Been going through the Gristwood’s again today & looked a little further into them just out of curiosity, Frederick George’s line goes back to William Gristwood who married Susannah King in 1799 whereas Louisa Gristwood’s (James Goodman’s wife) goes back to George Gristwood who married Elizabeth Lacey in 1796, William & George were brothers & sons of William Gristwood who married Elizabeth Aldridge in 1766. Can’t see any other sort of connection between a Gristwood to a McCarthy, well at least not until 1967 when there is a marriage in Swindon"
-
Thank you Jacquie for your reply. Our paths must have just crossed. Yes, I did wonder if George was keeping a low profile somewhere before he reached Canada, hee, hee. He may not have left England until later than the 1890s, using the alias name McCarthy. The family didn't seem to know for sure the exact date of departure. My grandfather mentioned, on his army form, 1901, that George was in London. However, there does not appear to have been much earlier contact with the brothers. My grand father was taken from UK to Ireland aged 5 years approx, when his father died in UK. His brother and a sister were put into homes in UK. I know that my grand father Hubert, later in life, searched for his brother George, but to no avail. His sister died, in the girl's home in UK. The family assumed that George had joined up and had died in the war. Sad times.
-
Bummer, it looks like George McCarthy, as previously mentioned, isn't my George Goodman, (alias McCarthy), after all.
Maddie has worked hard on my behalf, only to prove that George in the census isn't my missing George. Her information as follows.
"Another nail in the coffin, the 1891 census for the Prockter family has mother in law Eliza McCarthy living with them so it is looking as if the George in Canada was in fact Kate’s cousin through her maternal side. "
Many thanks for your interest. George will just have to stay missing for now.
-
This might be him.
-
Hi, thank you Manawakian for looking up information on George for me. Naas is in Co. Kildare, Ireland. Which I guess is near Dublin. Do you happen to have access to Irish birth information as well as death information. I know that there was at least one Irish born George Goodman 1881. If the index information was concerning George, born in Rickmansworth, England, in 1881, could he have been at a military base near Dublin. If he had a falling out with his mother, Mary Goodman, (nee McCarthy), he may not have put her as next of kin. After all, she did abandon George and his sister, to children's homes. When she went back to live, and to do her nurse training, in Ireland. Therefore, the family may not have been made aware of George's death. Although, you would expect there to have been a military record of his death also, if he did join up. Especially as Ireland was part of England at the time. The family suspected that he had joined up.
His uncle died abroad, in 1907, when George was first mentioned in the probate. Although searches were made for George after that period also.
-
Hi, firstly, I hope you all have a Merry Christmas. Does anyone know if there are records available for English people who went to Canada to work the land? I saw an advertisement in a newspaper around 1900. I was thinking of my grandfather’s missing brother. The family thought that he went to Canada and possibly joined the military. His father was a soldier but later worked as an agricultural labourer. Thank in advance if you can help at all.
-
Trying to send a photo attachment of the advertisement.
-
Did you investigate this George Goodman ? Born 1883 appears on the 1921 census Debre River Dauphin, Manitoba.
John A Thacker 50 Head
Margaret Thacker 37 Wife
Charles Robert Thacker 15 Son
Jonsommer Jonson 29 Servant
George Goodman 38 Servant. Born Eng 1883. Single. Labourer. Imm 1886.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e002880223
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra, thank you very much for your reply. No, I haven’t seen that census before. George was born in 1881, I have his birth cert. He left London, according to his aunt, in 1899 for Canada. I am living in Hertfordshire England, therefore I have no access to Canadian archives.
How would I go about investigating the Mantova George? Any help greatly appreciated or even if you could point me in the right direction for further research. Thank you.
-
A few links here might help.......
Don't forget that birth years and ages can be very wrong on census. What might he have remembered ? He could also have reverted to using his middle name. He may not have known his mothers names.
Free 1901 Canadian Census - https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1901/Pages/1901.aspx
Free 1911 Canadian Census - https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1911/Pages/1911.aspx
Free 1921 Canadian Census - https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1921/Pages/search.aspx
Free 1926 Prarie Census includes Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1926/Pages/default.aspx
Family search also has records available - https://www.familysearch.org/search/location/canada
Sandra
-
Thank you very much Sandra I will have a look at those links a bit later.
-
Previous thread with lots of research......72 pages (I haven't waded thru all of them :)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=511783.0
Sandra
-
If George began living under an assumed name after leaving St Vincent's School For Boys about 1887, the only hope you have to find any trace of him is to have your DNA tested and look for matches with his descendants, if any. His grandchildren and you would be second cousins and their children would be second cousins once removed.
Google searching for LostCousins or clicking here https://www.lostcousins.com should take you to a website in England which is a one man operation devoted to reuniting distant cousins. He is knowledgeable in using DNA matching to break down brick walls. Search his free newsletters for info on DNA testing.
-
Hi Sandra, thank you once again. That other thread is the father of the missing George. On the birth cert of George born 1881, he is named George Joseph and the father’s name is also written as George Joseph. That is my Hertfordshire uk thread.
-
Hi Manawakian, thank you for your message. I did my dad’s dna, some years ago, before he died. It was with familytreedna. His DNA matched with a local, to me, Goodman family, who kindly let me request their male Goodman’s DNA test. Those tests did not match any other Goodman families, who tested with familytree. I haven’t come across any Canadian Goodman Dna researchers.
-
I have a standard membership for lost cousins, which I visited last 2011. I have just visited again, using your link, thank you for that. Unfortunately there are no further developments.
-
I will get back to you in a couple of days.
-
The company with the largest database of peoples DNA results is having a boxing day only sale tomorrow. You should consider getting tested there as you will have a much greater chance of linking with one of Georges descendants on that site.
-
Hi, thank you for your advice. I have just ordered a test for my brother, in Ireland, to do. Thought it better to keep to the male Goodman line. I have a public member tree on their site.
-
If you bought an Ancestry test kit, it is not a Y-DNA test like you are familiar with, it is an autosomal test which matches you with relatives from both sides of your family, both male and female. If your great uncle George Goodman had any descendants and if any of them tested on Ancestry then they will show up as 3rd cousin or closer matches regardless of gender. If no matches show up then nothing has been proved in the search for George but you will find many other matches of interest from both sides of your family.
-
Hi, thank you, silly me, I could have just done the test for myself. My brother is in Ireland and I am in UK. Hopefully when he receives the test, and gets the result, I will be able to add it to my tree. I only have access to my own ancestry tree, as I am no longer a paying subscriber.
-
I am a member and have asked if he can link his dna to your tree, I will get back to you when they reply.
-
Once your brother has received his DNA results and is registered with Ancestry it appears the best way to link your family tree with his DNA is to invite him to share your tree. Instructions on how to do this are at the following link, but when the time comes to do so, it seems necessary that you should assign him the role of editor while following the instructions. The next step would be for him to link his DNA to the tree then invite you to become a collaborator or manager of his account.
https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/Sharing-a-Family-Tree?language=en_US&r=38&ui-knowledge-components-aura-actions.KnowledgeArticleVersionCreateDraftFromOnlineAction.createDraftFromOnlineArticle=1
-
Thank you Manawakian, that was very kind of you to check out that information for me.