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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Completed Requests => Topic started by: nigelw on Friday 24 June 05 16:07 BST (UK)
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My ancestors on my mother's side were the Richards/Davies family in Cwmbyr. I've traced them back to 1841 and beyond.
Interested in contacting anyone re this family
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I am descended from Benjamin Richards who I believe to be the brother of William Richards of Cymbyr Farm. I would be interested in any information especially pre 1841.
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I've got some pre 1841 info and will get back to you
Nigel
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Cheers Nigel
I look forward to receiving 1841 information.
Brian
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As names are passed down from one generation to the next, when was your Benjamin Richards born?
I've got census details 1841 for Cwmbyr and a Benjamin Richards 18 son of William Richards and Mary Richards.
Ive got census details 1841 for William Richards Melinwaun, Talley, the father of William Richards above.
I've got a copy of William Richards Melinwaun's will that has a reference to his son Benjamin
I have a copy of the 1911 obituary of Rachel Davies (Richards) Cwmbyr, my great, grandmother. Reference to a surviving brother named Benjamin, living in Llangadog
I have a reference to a Benjamin Richards, son of William Richards Cwmbyr marrying a Sarah Griffiths of Blaenwaun Talley
hwyl
Nigel
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Hello Nigel
My Benjamin Richards was born about 1808 in Talley. He married Mary Ann Marles in Gloucestershire in 1838. I have him in each census except 1841. I have his wife and his first daughter living in her parents household in 1841 but Benjamin is not present. He died aged aged 77 years in Fletching, Sussex. Benjamin was my paternal gt/gt/grandfather.
I have his father in the 1841 census and his mother at the same address in 1851. I have the death certificates of both his mother and father.
I also have his father's will which mentions Benjamin's reputed daughter Maria. I have also found a David born in Talley in 1831 being recorded as the son of Benjamin Richards and Elizabeth Thomas.
I don't have the christening of Benjamin or of his mother and father.
I live in England and have only seen the transcript of the Talley parish registers at the Society of Genealogists. I would welcome any information that you may have on Benjamin's parents and would reciprocate if I have any information that you require.
Brian
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You are saying, I think that your Benjamin is the son of William Richards, Melinwaun, Talley. If so I'll get back to you with further information
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Hello Nigel
My Benjamin Richards was born about 1808 in Talley. He married Mary Ann Marles in Gloucestershire in 1838. I have him in each census except 1841. I have his wife and his first daughter living in her parents household in 1841 but Benjamin is not present. He died aged aged 77 years in Fletching, Sussex. Benjamin was my paternal gt/gt/grandfather.
I have his father in the 1841 census and his mother at the same address in 1851. I have the death certificates of both his mother and father.
I also have his father's will which mentions Benjamin's reputed daughter Maria. I have also found a David born in Talley in 1831 being recorded as the son of Benjamin Richards and Elizabeth Thomas.
I don't have the christening of Benjamin or of his mother and father.
I live in England and have only seen the transcript of the Talley parish registers at the Society of Genealogists. I would welcome any information that you may have on Benjamin's parents and would reciprocate if I have any information that you require.
Brian
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Benjamin Richards' father William Richards, Melinwaun , Talley. William was the miller on the Edwinsford estate.
I've looked at several documents relating to the estate, one refers to work being done on the mill in 1811. The reference states " Paid William Richards, carpenter for work done"
Parish records for Llansawel (next parish to Talley and where Edwinsford mansion was). Baptism of William Richards, 1799; Richard Richards, 1803 and Evan Richards, 1804. The father being William Richards, carpenter, Garnwen, Llansawel.
No reference to Benjamin Richards but I have not found baptisms for Williams' other children either
According to the IGI William Richards was born in Garnwen, Llansawel circa 1771 and married his wife there. Check out "Family Search web site"
Check out old-maps.co.uk. Type in Garnwen, Llansawel in the address box. Go into view your map and then enlarged view.
Just further down, below Edwinsford you'll find Melinwaun.
Let me know how you get on
Nigel
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Thanks for the information. I've looked at the Old Maps as you suggest. Most interesting.
I did not have the information regarding the baptisms at Llansawel and William's occupation as a carpenter.
I have a CD of Carmarthenshire marriages (1754-1812) and this shows a marriage of William Richard, carpenter to Mary Griffith at Llangunnor on 21.12.1798.
In the 1851 census Mary states that she was born in Abergwily and Llangunnor is the adjacent parish, so this seems that this could be their marriage.
Brian
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I've been to the National Library at Aberystwyth and checked out the parish records. There is an entry in the Llangunnor record of William Richard, carpenter/Mary Griffith marriage dated as you said. However there is then a succesion of baptisms to William and Mary Richards when we know they were living either in Llansawel or Talley. The baptisms clearly are not our William Richards. Even more disconcerting is the fact that I could not find any other reference to any William Richards/Mary marriages in Llangunnor
Also Talley record shows David son of Benjamin Richards, saddler, Melinwaun and Elizabeth Thomas, servant at Edwinsford
Nigel
best wishes
Nigel
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Hi Nigel
Thanks for the information. It seems that the William Richard who married in Llangunnor is not the right one. Who do you think is our William?
Benjamin Richards is described as a Saddler in all the information I have and you have confirmed that he is also the father of David as well as Maria. This means that he fathered two children before he married Mary Ann Marles in Gloucestershire.
Brian
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I can't definitely say the William Richards who married in Llangunnor is the wrong one but it seems unlikely given the subsequent baptisms.
As a further complication I have a Carmarthenshire Marriages 1813-37 CD reference to a Benjamin Richard Talley marrying an Eleanor Williams from Conwyl Caeo (parish north of Talley). I have not noted the date but will get back to you on that. When I'm next in Carmarthen Archives I'll check the parish records
On your CD I assume you search for William Richard as well as Richards?
best wishes
Nigel
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I also have a William Richards of Llansawell who married Mary Griffiths in Llanybydder on 15.2.1799. and I believe Llanybydder is close to Talley.
I previously discounted him as I was looking for a Richard without the S. Also I was looking for a Farmer/Miller.
Regards
Brian
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This seems more likely. Llanybyther is a parish north of Llansawel. I'll check in Carmarthen for more details
Out of interest I have a reference from Llansawel parish records of the baptism of William, son of Richard John Richard, Llansawel, June 1769. The latter possibly being Benjamin's grandfather.
Benjamin Richard married Eleanor Williams 17/02/1821 according to the CD
Nigel
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Thanks for the information. I have William Richard's death certificate which states that he was aged 73 when he died in 1847. If this age is correct the baptism of the son of Richard John Richard would be too early.
My Benjamin Richards is consistent in recording his birth year as 1807/1808. His death aged 77 in 1884 would make his birth year 1807.
Brian
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I'll check the Llanfynydd records for a baptism of a William Richard/s c1774.
The Benjamin marriage I gave you is to early to be your Benjamin, sorry had not done my sums
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I thought Benjamin was an early developer but perhaps a marriage at 13 was a bit too much.
I do appreciate your endeavours on my behalf. If I can help you in any way you must let me know.
Brian
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I'm planning to a visit to the Archives Centre in Carmarthen on Fri. Will report back any relevant findings.
Nigel
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Hello Nigel
Did you get the information regards Richard(s) marriages in Carmarthen? I am not sure it got through to you because I've seemed to have lost the record of my past contacts.
I have a John Richard(s) born about 1780 in Llansawel in the 1841,51 and 61 censuses. Living at Blaengofuarth Llansawell in each census. Is there a connection with our William Richard?
Cheers!
Brian
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Hi Nigel
Just seen your post on Davies in Talley and wondered if my family were connected.
I have a William Davies born 1819 Llangeler married a Jane Davies born 1821 in Talley. They married in Dowlais in 1842. (got certificate)
Jane Davies was also nee Davies. Her father was called Thomas Davies, a butcher. born I would guess c1895.and probably in Talley. I have found in my research many butchers were also farmers.
I think that Jane was living in Gelligaer Parish as a servant at the time of her marriage. Ive tried to find both William and Jane in 1841 with no luck.
Regards
Brian
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Hello Nigel.
I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but thought it worthwhile dropping you a line like this - just in case.
I see you are researching a Richards/Davies line, and also a seperate Llangyfelach (nr Swansea) Glamorgan line. Reading through the thread, I also see mention of Benjamin Richards (not too common a name in Wales) and also of carpentry. All of these points cause me to consider a connection to my own Richards/Davies research.
I am a direct descendant of David Richards (a carpenter) and Sarah Davies, both born around 1796 OUTSIDE of Glamorganshire (according to the 1841 census), although I've yet to locate their birthplace and birth entires. I've also yet to confirm their place of marriage (the IGI throws up a possibility in Myrthyr Tydfil). Their son who I am descended from was Joseph Richards, born c1838 in Llangyfelach.
Josephs older siblings were HENRY (born c.1826), ELIZABETH, (born c.1826), and JOHN (born c.1830), while his younger brother was BENJAMIN (born c.1840).
I've tracked the family through all the census returns - my own branch heading to the North East of England by 1871 (Durham & Northumberland), and eventually settling in Middlesbrough (then in North Yorkshire, now in Cleveland).
The names Henry, David, John, Joseph and Benjamin appear each generation.
I'm wondering if you've encountered a carpenter called David Richards in your research? Perhaps linked to a Sarah Davies? Have you seen any Richards information at all during your Llangyfelach research?
The only record I have of David Richards alive is the 1841 census, where he and his family lived at the YNYSPENLLWCH TINWORKS. He had passed away by 1851.
Although listed in the census returns as being born in Llangyfelach, I've found no birth records for HENRY (born c.1826), ELIZABETH, (born c.1826), JOHN (born c.1830), JOSEPH (born c.1838) or BENJAMIN (born c.1840). Maybe you have transcripts on CD for this area? Or know someone who does?
ANY help or advice greatly appreciated. It took me 14 years to get this far (my Joseph married a Gypsy in 1871 and went travelling!) and a further 3 years of looking has not got me further. :-[
Again - ANY help, advice, or a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. :)
Best Regards
Curtis
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Hello Curtis
My Llangyfelach line are the Watkins and the Johns. Both families originating in Swansea and worked in the tinplate works and coal mines.
My Richards family originate in Llansawel Carmarthenshire and were farmers although my ggg grandfather was a miller and (at one time a carpenter). I've seen no Richards in Llangyfelach but then I would not have been looking for them.
I can access indexes of the parish records for Llangyfelach if you want and look up the baptisms, marriages and deaths. Let me know
Nigel
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Hello Nigel, many thanks for your reply, and for your kind offer of help - that would be great.
I've had someone else look at the Llangyfelach records, and they found no mention of any of the RICHARDS children apparently born there (as per the 1851 census) which has me scratching my head.
You mention Carmarthenshire in your reply, as being the place your Richards came from.
In the 1851 census, my David Richards had passed away, leaving Sarah a widow. I note though that she puts her place of birth as....Carmarthenshire.
In 1841, when both David and Sarah were both alive, although their children are all listed as being born in Glamorganshire ('YES' in the county box), both parents say they were born outside of Glamorganshire ('NO@ in the county box). We now know Sarah Davies was born in Carmarthenshire - so DID DAVID RICHARDS ALSO HAIL FROM CARMARTHENSHIRE?
This is a possibilty I've yet to explore.
I don't know what records you have for Carmarthenshire, nor how easy they are to do look-ups, but the logical searches from here would be:
1) Birth of Sarah Davies in Carmarthenshire c.1796 (although I admit this might throw up a number of candidates)
2) Birth of a David Richards in Carmarthenshire c.1796 (although again, I admit this might throw up a number of candidates)
3) Finally, the marriage of Sarah Davies to David Richards prior to 1826 in Carmarthenshire, where both bride and groom could match the age for being born c.1796. from 1) & 2) above.
If you have any such notes, records, access to CDs or Fiche, or know someone who has, or can point me in the direction of a stockist etc - ANY HELP, AS ALWAYS, is genuinely appreciated...
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I've checked the marriages for Carmarthenshire, Cardiganshire and Pembrokeshire 1813 - 1837, sorry no matches. Nearest is a William Richards and Sara Davies Jan 1819 Llangynllo parish Cardiganshire. Could he have been named William David Richards or David William Richards and used the William part. Use of the middle name as the first name was/is not uncommon. Just a thought.
Try the family history societies of the other Welsh counties, they will all have marriages on CD by now.
PS do you have their death certificates, may throw up a clue.
Have you checked the Llangyfelach Bishop's Transcripts (BTs)as well as the parish records. They should contain the same information but they often don't. An entry for a marriage etc can crop up in one and not the other. National Library of Wales has all the BTs and parish records for Wales.
Nigel
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Nigel - I am descended from Ebenezer Richards, youngest(?) son of William Richards, Cwmbyr. He married Margaret Thomas of Coedhirion. I have noted with interest the details included in this thread with regard to William's father, William Richards Melinwaun. Do you have any other details other than those included in this thread which you would be able to share? Diolch.
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Please advise whether you received my e mail sent 02/09/11
Nigel
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Nigel - Rwy wedi derbyn eich e-bost a bydda i'n ymateb cyn bo hir/ I have received your e-mail and will reply in due course. Diolch.
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My wife's grandfather lived in Cwmbyr from in 1939 and trying to find when he moved there. Have you seen the records made of the gravestones in Talley Churchyard? Here are some Richards of Cwmbyr:
58. Er cof am David Richards, mab William a Mary Richards, Cwmbyr, yn y Plwyf hwn, bu farw Ionawr 20fed 1845, yn 29 mlwydd oed
Hefyd am y dywededig William Richards, bu farw Tachwedd 4ydd 1866, yn 68 mlwydd oed
Mewn gwir obaith am adgyfodiad gwell
Y cyfiawn a obeithia pan fyddo yn marw
Hefyd am y dywededig Mary Richards, gwraig William Richards, bu farw Tachwedd 10, 1887, yn 88 mlwydd oed
Hefyd er cof am Mary Richards, merch y diweddar William a Mary Richards, Cwmbyr, bu farw Chwefror 18, 1898, yn 65 mlwydd oed
Byw I mi yw Crist a marw sydd elw
Hefyd er cof am William Richards, eu mab bu farw Hydref 19, 1898, yn 79 mlwydd oed
Gwyn eu byd y meirw y rhai sydd yn marw yn yr Arglwydd
(Stone inscription unclear – flaked and worn)
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469. In memory of William Richard, late of Melin y Waun, in this Parish, who died June 16th 1846, aged 73 years
Aslso of Mary Richard, his wife who died August 18th 1859, aged 88 years
Cais Deyrnas Dduw a’i hardd cyfiawnder
A’i ceisio byth ni bydd mewn prinder
Also of Griffith, their son who died May 12th 1814, aged 2 years
Also of Richard, son of the said W & M Richard, who died June 5th 1839, aged 37 years
Also of Rachel Richard, their daughter who died at Cwmbyr, in this parish, February 17th 1895, aged 78 years
Gwyn eu byd y meirw y rhai sydd yn marw yn yr Arglwydd
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470. In memory of Griffith, son of William and Mary Richard, late of Melinywaun, in this Parish, who died May 12th 1814, aged 2 years
Also of the above named William Richard, who died June 16th 1846, aged 73 years
Also of Mary Richard, wife of the above named who departed this life on the 18th of August 1859, aged 88 years
Cais Daernas Dduw a a’i gyfiawnder
A’i ceisio byth mewn prinder
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527. Sacred to the memory of Ann, wife of John Richard, of Cwmbyr, in this Parish, who died July 12th 1858, aged 32 years