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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: M G M on Wednesday 16 April 14 01:44 BST (UK)
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Hi all I am looking for any info on Andrew Gray born Ayrshire 1822 Married to Margaret Robb (B) 1828 Ayrshire.
thank you
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Hi MGM,
Do you have any other info on this couple which might help us help you? :)
For instance do you know if the couple married in Scotland, did they have children - if so can you list their names? Did the couple stay in Scotland or did they emigrate?
Sorry for all the questions. But anything extra can maybe point us in the right direction. No point Rootschatters checking Censuses etc if the couple left Scotland and won't be on them ;D
Looby :)
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Thanks for getting back so quick, yes they had a son james gray married jemima Pym 1879 his parents were ON the wedding CERTIFICATE ,james & jemima lived at 3 hospital st Glasgow....
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Hi
Margaret Robbs death cert 16.7.1899 age 72 has her as Robinson widow of Andrew Gray ,and then James Robinson gatekeeper ,daughter of Peter Robb gardener deceased and Marion Robb born Coylton ,Ayrshire .
Inf son James gray Adelphi st.
Andrew Gray a joiner died 1842 at sea on his way to America and she remarried the following year.
Children John H Wallace born 1848 illegitimate and James Gray 1852 from her first marriage and Peter Robinson born 1856 from her second.According to poor law application but children 9,6, and 11 mths in 1857 so dates don't add upSecond Marriage is supposedly at Stanhope 1855.
There is a possible christening for Andrew
9.6.1823 St Quivax and Newton Ayr to James Gray and Jane Aird
Other children
David 17.7.1825
Mary 2.3.1832
James 11.5.1834
Margaret 12.7.1836
Janet 12.9.1841.
Marriage Old Cumnock 23.8.1822.
Not got Scots People so can't find much more.
Ciderdrinker
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Hi again,
Going with the info supplied by Ciderdrinker, I wonder if this could be Margaret's second marriage https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTYF-SJ8
Margaret Burnet Robb to James Robertson at Central District Glasgow on 5 Oct 1855.
Well worth looking on Scotlands People for that one MGM.
Found on Freecen-
1851 Census at Gadgirth Holme, Colyton Ayrshire-
Robb Peter Head M M 57 Gardener (Master Emp None) Angus - Dundee
Robb Marion Wife M F 50 Housekeeper Angus - Dundee
Robb Margaret Dau U F 24 Employed At Home Ayrshire - Coylton
Robb Kinnaird Son U M 15 Scholar Ayrshire - Coylton
Robb Helen Dau U F 12 Scholar Ayrshire - Coylton
Wallace John Grnson U M 3 Lanarkshire - - Altered from RFW Glasgow
This look like Margaret and the illegitmate son referred to by Ciderdrinker. She must still have to marry Andrew Gray (if indeed she did :-\)
And here is young Andrew Gray living in the same area on the 1851 Census.
Gadgirthe Holme , Coylton.
Stewart Archibald Head M M 38 Joiner (Emp 2 Appren) Bute - Arran
Stewart Mary Wife M F 34 Housekeeper Ayrshire - Craigie
Stewart Agnes Dau U F 10 Scholar Ayrshire - Coylton
Stewart Mary Dau U F 8 Scholar Ayrshire - Coylton
Stewart Margaret Dau U F 4 Ayrshire - Coylton
Stewart Elisabeth Dau U F 2 Ayrshire - Coylton
Thomson Janet Servnt U F 17 House Servant Dumfries-shire - Kirkconnel
Gray Andrew Servnt U M 20 Joiners (Apprentice) Ayrshire - Dailly
Hay William Servnt U M 17 Joiners (Apprentice) Ayrshire - Tarbolton
The date of 1842 for Andrew leaving for America and dying at sea must be incorrect. Perhaps 1852?
Looby :)
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This is what I have so far,
peter robb (B) 1794
marion robb (B) 1801
andrew gray (B) 1822 (D) 1854
margaret robb (B) 1826 (D) 1899
james gray (B) 1853 (D) 1913
jemima pym (B) 1862 (M) 1-12- 1878 (D) 1912
So I think the Andrew Gray lost at sea was a different person
What do you think....?
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Hi MGM,
I'm just about to go out but I think we have to ask Ciderdrinker where he got that information from regarding an Andrew Gray death at sea.
So far we have not found a marriage between Andrew and Margaret Robb and there is chance their might not have been one ??? .
Margaret certainly is on her own in 1855 to marry James Robertson.
I have found an Ayrshire born (I think) Andrew Gray emigrating in 1852 to US but he is married to another Margaret.
Hopefully Ciderdrinker or someone else will provide more info/help.
Looby :)
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Good Afternoon.Ciderdrinker
Maybe third time lucky in trying to get it right.(now the website is playing up).Of course it is James Robertson not Robinson my apologies.
The info is off a on line family tree on A*.Owner Colin-charlie1.I don't know where the Robinson came from but it should of course be Robertson.
It is a Poor relief application D-HEW 10/5/15 pg 378 dated supposedly 6.11.1857.
Inspectors visit 7.11.1857 1pm Garnhill Road
James Robertson age 52 born New Monkland
Gatekeeper Messers Murray and Fullerton
Average weekly wages of 8 s with free house,gas and coal!
Sore legs see Dr Walker
Wife Margaret Robb or Gray born Gadgarth Ayrshire
John age 9yrs born Ayrshire at school
James age 6 years born Parson St Barony at school
Peter 11 mths
The 2 oldest children are the wife’s by a previous husband.
Wife’s first husband Andrew Gray,joiner died on his way to America 16 hears since.Married by Rev Menzies 15 years since
Parents William Robertson engine keeper and Jane Walker both dead .Wife’s parents Peter Robb and Marion Low both dead
Once again the ages of the children and Andrew's Gray's death do not match up and he must have died 1852-1854.Sorry to be so sloppy,with James Robertson's name.
I will do the second bit on another reply
Ciderdrinker
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The second application is is 24.1.1867 at 5 Swan St
James Robertson 63 born New Monkland former gate keeper ---Cooper at Pottery. Wife Margaret born Colyton Ayrshire .Married Oct 1855 Stanhope St by Re W Menzies of the Free Church.
Same parents but this time hers are in Bothwell St.
Her eldest son John is 16 a blacksmith’s apprentice who earns 5 s and is a illegitimate child by H Wallace before her marriage.
James is 14 and son of her first husband who was Braid.
Other Children Marion born Garnhill Rd age 7
Helen age 5 New City road and Catherine 8mths born at present house.
Residence present house 8 mths 9 Swan St 1 year,73 New City Road 3 years and Garnhill road 10 years 6 mths.
All the best and my apologies once again
Ciderdrinker
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Baptism for Margaret
Margaret Burnett Robb 17.12 1826 Colyton Ayrshire
Parents Peter Robb and Marion Lowe.
1861 43 Garngad Hill
James Robertson 59 gate keeper Pottery New Monkland
Margaret 35 Colyton
John Wallace Robertson 11 sons Glasgow
James Robertson 8
Jane Robertson 22 daughter occupation transpier?New Monkland
Morrison Robertson 1 daughter
1871 56 Tennent St Glasgow
James 58 watchman
Margaret 44
Marion 10
Ellen 8
Catherine 3 (1891 4 Osbourne Terrace servant)
James Grey 17 bottle maker boarder.
Ciderdrinker
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Is this the Gray family in 1841?
St Quivox Brick Row.
James Gray 50 farmer
Jean Gray 40
Andrew 17
Jean 13
Agnes 11
Mary 9
James 7
Margaret 4
1851 Inchbian Farm Riccarton
James Gray 66 Kirkconel Ayrshire
Jean 52 Old Cumnock
Agnes 20 St Quivox
Mary 18
Margaret 14
Janet 9
James 16
1861 Inchbean St quivox
Jean 63 farmer of 148 acres
Agnes 29
James 27
Janet 19
John Annan 16 servant Ireland
Ciderdrinker
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Is this the Gray family in 1841?
St Quivox Brick Row.
James Gray 50 farmer
Jean Gray 40
Andrew 17
Jean 13
Agnes 11
Mary 9
James 7
Margaret 4
1851 Inchbian Farm Riccarton
James Gray 66 Kirkconel Ayrshire
Jean 52 Old Cumnock
Agnes 20 St Quivox
Mary 18
Margaret 14
Janet 9
James 16
1861 Inchbean St quivox
Jean 63 farmer of 148 acres
Agnes 29
James 27
Janet 19
John Annan 16 servant Ireland
Ciderdrinker
I'm not sure that is the correct Gray family. Andrew Gray on the 1851 Census at Gadfirth Holme neighbouring Margaret has his age listed as 20 place of birth Dailly and he is an apprentice joiner.
If the age of the Andrew at St.Quivox is correct he would be approx. 27 in 1851 and perhaps too old to be an apprentice :-\
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Hi
I get your point but MGM did ask for a Andrew Gray born 1822.
I'm not sure where he got that date from.
Can I just add a passenger list 17.8.1853 Glasgow to New York on the Corra Linn
John Gray 61
David 28
Andrew 29
Alex 20 all above joiners
George 15 farmer
William 7
Mary Ann 17 spinster
Margaret 13
Jane 16.
My thought was Andrew and his brother David are of with an uncle and his children.
Where did that birth date of 1822 come from ?There does seem to be the same date on other peoples trees.
I could take a punt at James and Jeans parents but if it's not the right family there's no point.
Ciderdrinker
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You are correct Ciderdrinker, MGM did give a year of birth c.1822 and I don't know where that came from.
The Andrew Gray living a few households from Margaret in 1851, of course may not be the correct Andrew Gray ! I just "liked" the look of him because he was on Margaret's doorstep and because he was a joiner (apprentice) - Margaret's first husband being listed as a joiner on the Poor Relief application. And again his age could be wrong on the 1851 - but he is recorded as an apprentice.
I appreciate you are looking at other people's trees. I'm not. I tend to try and source the info from Familysearch & Freecen. The problem with other people's trees as I'm sure you know is that if one person makes an error and claims the wrong ancestor everyone else copies their error.
So far MGM has not found any info on Andrew other than him being recorded as James's father on his marriage cert, so I'm wondering if he/she has found the date 1822 on a family tree site too.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYSY-D4M
The St. Quivox Andrew Gray was certainly born there in 1823 to James Gray and Jane/Jean Aird
Looby :)
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James Gray death cert reads as follows:
He died on the 23-4-1913 (62yrs)
lived at 1 south stirling st Glasgow
Parent`s
Andrew Gray
Bottle work labourer (deceased)
Margaret Gray-wallace-robb (deceased)
Registered by son
John Gray 8 Bedford st Glasgow
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Forgot to add - that's a good find the Gray family sailing to America - I wonder if we can find out where they were from? ;D
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It just says from Scotland
Ciderdrinker
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Forgot to add - that's a good find the Gray family sailing to America - I wonder if we can find out where they were from? ;D
I've managed to look at the ship manifest for the Grays (John, Andrew, David, Alex ) on Family search and unfortunately I think it says Farmer not Joiner beside their names. The writing is a bit of a scrawl :-\ and I can see why it could be interpreted as Joiner, but I think they are a family of farmers. I've been trying to locate them on the Census of 1851 but so far no joy.
Looby :)
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I have managed to get a 1851 census of a Gray family from tarbolton...it reads as:
The Address looks like 5 Malside
James Gray (h)46 (m)
jane Gray (w) 39 (m)
john Gray (s) 16 (u) son at home...?
William gray (s) 14 (u) Scholar
james gray (s) 12 (u) "
Robert Gray (s) 10 (u) "
david Gray (s) 8 (u) "
alexander Gray (s) 5 (u)
adam gray ? (s) 3 (u)
Mary Gray (d) 1(u)
Andrew Gray (?) 21 (u) Farm labourer
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I have managed to get a 1851 census of a Gray family from tarbolton...it reads as:
The Address looks like 5 Malside
James Gray (h)46 (m)
jane Gray (w) 39 (m)
john Gray (s) 16 (u) son at home...?
William gray (s) 14 (u) Scholar
james gray (s) 12 (u) "
Robert Gray (s) 10 (u) "
david Gray (s) 8 (u) "
alexander Gray (s) 5 (u)
adam gray ? (s) 3 (u)
Mary Gray (d) 1(u)
Andrew Gray (?) 21 (u) Farm labourer
According to Freecen this Andrew's relationship to the Householder was Servant.
His place of birth has been partially obscured by a black slash on the paper but has been transcribed as Tarbolton Ayrshire