RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: framoss on Thursday 15 July 04 05:40 BST (UK)
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My surname interests
Hicks St. Just in Penwith, Penzance, Madron
Laity Helston area
Kessell,(Kissell) Helston area
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I am researching Richard Kessell who married Grace Sloan and lived in Whitehaven in 1800, they had a son John Sloan Kessell.
I am not sure if this is the same area, family or time frame that you are looking for.
If it is I would be happy to send you the information I have.
Kevin.
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Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your reply.
I do not have much to go on for my Kessell.
William Henry Kessell b. abt. 1836 poss. Helston area
married Elizabeth Treloar in Helston 1859.
On the marriage cert. William's father is Henry Laity a blacksmith.
William and Elizabeth's first daughter was Rebecca,
possibly that was William's mothers name.
Do any of these names ring bells?
I couln't find William on 1841 Cornwall census and am waiting for 1851 to come online.
Cheers Frances
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If we have the same Hicks line in St Just in Penwith, I have taken mine back to 1666. What names are you following?
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Hi Ally and Lalm,
My name is Roy White.
I have Hicks ancestry in St.Just that goes back pre 1600 including some wills. I also can supply a gedcom.
Also for Lalm I have similar for the Dunn family.
Happy to share with yoy both, Roy
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Ooooohhhh! Very interested!! Thank you Ron, tell me what you need to know for me to get a copy of what informatin you have... thank you very much!
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Hi Lalm,
I have attached a gedcom for the Hicks family.
Any additions or ammendments you may have would be very welcome.
I also tried to attach the 7 wills (these are in word doc. form, but it would not accept them.
However, these can be found along with about 200 I have transcribed at the following site,
West Penwith Resources
Lots there including census etc.
I look forward to hearing from you, Roy
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Thank you very much! A few of these names I recognise ( from the will transcripts) but others must be siblings that I have not followed the paths of.. just going to look at the gedcom file now.. thank you again for your help.
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Hello again... just a few queries re: that gedcom file..
My husbands family comes from the George Hicks born to Thomas Hicks and Eliza Trenwith born in 1876, in the gedcom you gave me you have his mother as being unknown... is this an error or are my sources incorrect? I have that he is the 6th child of Eliza and Thomas. I can send yuou my chart if you like to make it a bit easier to understand.
Alsop my husband descendes from George's second wife's family. She was Louisa Ada Busby, and they had only one daughter, Jean Mildred.
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Hi Lalm,
Looking at the gedcom you will see that I have Eliza Trenwith there, but no children to the couple. So, yes please, your chart would help a great deal.
Going back up the Hicks line are you interested in the female lines. For example Woolcock, Bands, Grenfell, Gibbes etc. If so, I can let you have gedcoms for them.
There are also wills on the site for these families.
Obviously, with a large family like Hicks, there will be some errors that need fixing by additional info. The problem is, like all families, the repeated use of Christian names especially in the same generation.
I look forward to getting your info and please do let me know about the other gedcoms.
Roy
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Hi there,
I have downloaded your gedcom to compare with my Hicks Information
My Hicks info also starts with Peter Hicks who died 1616 St. Just. When we get to Philip Hicks who married Anne Gibbes I have their second son John Bap. 31 Dec. 1671 St. Just as having a fist marriage to Julian Vingoe 17 January 1701/2 and a second marriage to Honour Chenhale (Chinal). John and Julian had a son John Bap. 4 June 1703 and died 5 June 1703 St. Just.
Then Thomas Hicks and Margery Bands son Thomas bap. 23 April 1704 married 11 Oct. 1756 St. to Grace James. You have him married to Elizabeth Warren.
My information is as follows:
Thomas Hicks son of Thomas Hicks and Margery Bands age 52, married Grace JAMES in St. Just, daughter of Henry James and Grace Bennetts age 22, on 11 Oct. 1756 in St. Just in Penwith Parish Church by licence, both of this parish, in the presence of J. Bonetto and Wm. Reseigh.
Thomas and Grace had two sons Thomas bap. 31 Oct. 1757 and buried Dec. 1762 in St. Just.
and John bapt. 7th June 1761 in St. Just, married Jane Oats on 30th May 1793 in St. Just in Penwith Parish Church.
I would be pleased if you could let me know your source. As this is my line.
Cheers Framoss
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Roy... I would love to pass on my information to you but am unsyure how to do so wiht a gedcom file as you did... would it be easiest for me to make it into a chart and email it to you? Or is there a way I can make a gedcom file that you wont have to deal with all my other family stuff. I use Paf 5.2 I think.
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Hi Framoss,
Looking at your info. I can only assume that Thomas's first wife, Elizabeth Warren , died young and that he remarried at a later date. The great age difference seems to support this.
My info comes from original parish records (photocopies), wills etc.
If you are interested in gedcoms of the Bands, Gibbes and others please let me know.
I presume that you have looked at the following site,
West Penwith Resources
All of the wills are there (over 200) also there are more at
Cornish Probate
St.Erth Page, on Kathy Weigels site.
Any other info or corrections would be appreciated.
Roy
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Roy, I would also be interested in the maternal lines if it is not too much hassle!
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Roy,
Thank you for your reply. I would be pleased to receive the Gedcom for the Bands family. The only info I have is Margery's parents George Bands and Elizabeth Cock.
Many thanks
Framoss
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By the way Roy, you mentioned you would have similar information for the Dunn family, as far as I can tell my Dunn's originated in Queen's County, ireland, so I imagine it is a bit far from where you are focused.
Thank you anyway.
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Hi Framoss,
Sorry. I thought I had it on gedcom, but I haven't.
If you would let me have your e mail address I could send it as word doc. Roy
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Hi Framoss,
I have attached a gedcom for the Cock family and a text doc. for the Bands family, Roy
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Hi Roy
Many thanks for your information. Really Appreciated.
Cheers Framoss
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Still Looking for any info on Martin HICKS bap 26 June 1808 St. Just, son of John Hicks and Jane Oats. He is presumed to have married Jane (nee Hicks) and had a daughter Louisa Jane b. 1852C Madron. Louisa Jane married Henry Nicholls Hollow and came to NZ.
Framoss
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My Step-Aunt and Godmother is a Granddaughter of Maria Morthey Laity (b. 1886 Mar qtr) who married Edward White in 1910.
I have only gone back so far to the 1841 census where I find George Laity, mason of Helston, who was married 3.09.1829 to Margaret Cheffer/Cheffers/Chefer (depending on which internet screen you look at).
They had the following childern: 1) Thomas 2) George 3) James 4) Edwin 5) Caroline 6) Eliza 7) John 8) Alfred 9) Isaac 10) Ellen 11) Elizabeth Sarah 12) William H : This information is gleaned from the three main internet sources.
George Laity would be my step-great great great grandfather, and my godmother is keen to know about her relatives as she has so little information and is in no way confident with family history resources, computers etc.
I was down in Cornwall recently for a few days doing some concentrated FH research on my surname, and could have done with staying a year, but 'home' beckoned me back.
Does this George Laity fit in anywhere with your family tree?
Regards
Chris Penrose
Leeds, West Yorkshire
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Hi Chris.
My Laity connection is very vague at this stage.
My interest is William Henry Kissell(Kessle) b. abt. 1838
on his marriage to Elizabeth Treloar at Helston his father was named as Henry Laity, Blacksmith. We have no clue as to his mothers given name, and presume he may have been a base child of unknown Kissell and Henry Laity. I have not been able to find him as William Kissell or William Laity on 1841 or 1851 Census. He first appears on 1861 Census after his marriage as William Kissell.
Frances
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Hello Roy
I downloaded your gedcom with absolute glee as I think I have, at long last, had a breakthough in my brick wall.
As background, my ggfather was James Hicks who came to Cape Town, South Africa in about 1901. According to family, there was a major rift and he never had contact with his family in Cornwall ever again.
He was married to Mary Caroline BREACH (d.o. James Joseph & Margaret VINGOE) but I have not been able to verify the marriage. Mary Caroline is on the 1901 Census under her maiden name as an Asylum Nurse in Wiltshire. I cannot find James on the 1901 Census (but I was not looking for a James married to an Edith!). However, I have him in the employ of the Plague Administration Department in Cape Town by the 9th of May 1901.
James & Mary had two sons, Wilfrid James Breach HICKS b. 30th October 1903 in Cape Town and d. 21st December 1972 in Durban (my grandfather) and Godfrey Trevor Breach HICKS d. 6th May 1983 in Johannesburg.
I have a copy of James's death notice from the Archives in South Africa where he died in Johannesburg on the 6th August 1949 age 76y 10m. This makes his birth in October 1872. Based on this, I got a copy of James's birth record from the Records Office and his birth date is 20th October 1872 in Penzance. His parents are listed as James Henry (occ. Grocers Cellarman) & Grace Frances PEARCE of 37 Mount Street Penzance. (You have his birth date as 29th November 1872 but that is the "date registered".) So I think we have the same man.
What is different about our information is his marriage on 7th October 1893 to Edith Pengelly! May I ask your source of this?
I am now wondering if James deserted his wife and ran off with Mary to South Africa - hence the rift? Or maybe Edith died? Do you know perhaps?
I was also wondering if you perhaps had more information on his siblings - I have been told very scant information but not been able to verify any of it, viz. that one of his brothers was in the navy and a sister and a cousin moved to New Zealand.
I don't have access to the 1901 Census information and wonder if there is SKS out there who will look for a James born in 1872 in Penzance, Cornwall with a wife named Edith.
Regards
Moira
Hi Lalm,
I have attached a gedcom for the Hicks family.
Any additions or ammendments you may have would be very welcome.
I also tried to attach the 7 wills (these are in word doc. form, but it would not accept them.
However, these can be found along with about 200 I have transcribed at the following site,
West Penwith Resources
Lots there including census etc.
I look forward to hearing from you, Roy
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Only had a quick look at the 1901 census, can't see a James Hicks but there is an Edith Hicks born 1875 Penzance. Listed as a wife, but no husband present. Two daughters Winifred born 1895 and Eva born 1897. RG13, piece 2254, Folio 5, page 1.
Lynda
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Thanks so much for looking Lynda.
Please may I ask if you would mind looking up that reference again and letting me know her place of birth? I have ordered the marriage certificate for James & Edith and would like to be able to compare the data.
Regards
Moira
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Hello,
I am afraid it just says Penzance as her place of birth. She was living at 6 St.James Street, St. Johns Parish, Penzance. There is a marriage between James Hicks and Edith Pengelly on FreeBMD for the December 1893 register, but can't immediately see an Edith Pengelly on the 1891 census (but only had a cursory glance) but there is one on the 1881 census also stating date of birth 1875 and place of birth Penzance.
Lynda
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Thanks Lynda
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Hi Framoss,
I have a few Kistell`s in my tree if that is the same as your Kisell, They originated from Cornwall and They were called Bosanko but changed their surname.
There was Alexander Bosanko Kistell Born St Just Cornwall 1850, He had a son Daniel Bosanko Born St Just 7, 12 ,1882. are they any use to you
Rockofages
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I have started my family tree and on my cornish side & I got all exited to see names I recognise from some of you trees.
My grandparents were William Mitchell & Lena Hicks - Lenas' ancestors are William Hicks b.1755 & Anne Trembath b. c1761. His parents are either John Hicks & Elizabeth Woolcock, or Thomas Hicks & Elizabeth Warren (later married to Grace James). I have not been able to work out which but I have Thomas Hicks & Margery Grace Bans as the previous generation. Some of this may be speculation on my part, but my mothers side come from a long line of families from St Just in Penwith.
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Hi Chris.
My Laity connection is very vague at this stage.
My interest is William Henry Kissell(Kessle) b. abt. 1838
on his marriage to Elizabeth Treloar at Helston his father was named as Henry Laity, Blacksmith. We have no clue as to his mothers given name, and presume he may have been a base child of unknown Kissell and Henry Laity. I have not been able to find him as William Kissell or William Laity on 1841 or 1851 Census. He first appears on 1861 Census after his marriage as William Kissell.
Frances
I have him Listed in 1861 as William Goldsworthy
1861 Census Helston Cornwall
address: Meneage Street
Mary GOLDSWORTHY head widow aged 66 Born Cornwall Paul
William H. Goldsworthy son married aged 24 Tin Miner Born Cornwall Helston
Elizabeth Goldsworthy son’s wife aged 23 Born Cornwall Germoe
John H Goldsworthy son aged 2 born Cornwall Helston
Rebecca J Goldsworthy daughter aged 7 Months born Cornwall Helston
1871 Census Helston Cornwall
Address: Church Street
William Kissel Head Married aged 35 Tin Miner Born Cornwall Helston
Elizabeth Kissel wife aged 30 Born Cornwall Gornoe
John Henry Kissel son aged 11 Born Cornwall Helston
William Kissel aged 8 Born Cornwall Helston
Mary Kissel daughter aged 6 born Cornwall Helston
Edah (Edith) Kissell daughter aged 3 Born Cornwall Helston
Elizabeth Kissel daughter aged 1 Born Cornwall Helston
Mary GOLDSWOTHY Visitor Married aged 78 Annuitant Born Cornwall St Paul
1851 Census Helson address: Meneage Street
Mary Goldsworthy Head widow aged 52 born Cornwall Wendron
Alfred Goldsworthy son aged 12 Born Cornwall Wendron
Wm Henry Goldsworthy son aged 15 Born Cornwall Wendron
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Hi
Regarding William Henry Kissell. I have come to the same conclusion as you regarding his parentage. I have been unable to connect Henry Laity to whom I presume is Williams mother Mary. I have found a parish notice for the marriage of Mary Kestle to Joseph Goldsworthy and this is in line with the census details and it appears that William probably changed his name to Goldsworthy when his mother married Joseph Goldsworthy and it appears may have changed his name back to Kissell when Joseph died.
I can find no recrods of Mary Kistle/Kestle/Kissell or William Henry prior to her marrying Joseph Goldsworthy. I would be interested any information there is of this family prior to her marriage.
William Henry is my 3rd great grandfather on my paternal grandmothers side but of note, my grandfathers family name is also Kissell and they came from Cornwall as well so I am very interested to see if there might be a connection back in the family lines - they came to the West Coast of NZ (and only to Invercargill in recent times) whereas William Henry and his family came to Invercargill NZ.
Thus, I am interested in any Kissell information as I have two lines to follow on my fathers side for the Kissell family.
Many thanks
Debbie FAhey (need Kissell)
Please contact me with any Kissell information you mayh
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Where did you find the parish notice of a marriage of Joseph Goldsworthy to Mary Kestel ? When did they marry ?
Was Joseph married twice ? I ask because I have him marrying Mary Winn 24 Dec 1821.
Fizzy