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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: butlersearch on Monday 07 April 14 15:31 BST (UK)

Title: undertakers dublin
Post by: butlersearch on Monday 07 April 14 15:31 BST (UK)
Hi

I am researching Mary Field born Dublin 1872 I have a possible with parents being Michael Field and Mary Ann Reilly. 

I have just had a conversation with an elderly relative who remembers our Grandmother and recalls her talking of being brought up in O connell Street and her father having an undertakers business
and he was killed by one of his horses.

Is there somewhere I can check for old businesses .

Mary was disowned by her family when she married , and never returned to Ireland.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: annclare on Monday 07 April 14 23:23 BST (UK)
You can check Thom's directories year by year but only a few years are online. Pearse St Library in Dublin has a complete run.
annclare
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 08 April 14 08:52 BST (UK)
I see from Family Search births 1620 to 1881 that she was born in Blackrock Co Dublin and most likely registered in Rathdown Registration District in 1872 there is also a Death recorded in 1878 in Rathdown for a 5yr old Mary Anne Field.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 08 April 14 09:00 BST (UK)
Did she marry in Ireland because there are a few marriages around the time when she would have been in her twenties or late teens in Dublin ,Cork and Limerick,both Cork and Limerick also have O'Connell Streets.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: butlersearch on Tuesday 08 April 14 12:25 BST (UK)
Hi

Thanks for the replies I had not seen the death for a Mary Anne Field does this mean the Blackrock birth I have is wrong ?

I am not sure where the marriage took place but family stories relayed say she met Thomas Butler in Ireland while he was in the army there and bought her back to England when she was 15/16 and her family then disowned her , so my feeling is the marriage took place in England but I have never been able to trace it.

Regards

regards
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 08 April 14 15:20 BST (UK)
To help search for you can you clarify

Where did Mary's year of birth come from?
Could this be out by a year or two?
If so, there are at least 10 births of a Mary Field or Mary Fields in the Dublin area between 1870 and 1874

If Thomas Butler was in the army have you located his military record?
This may refer to his marrying and where; more detail on Thomas would allow us to look
e.g. DoB, regiment...
Soldiers required the permission of their commanding officer to marry; if this was not obtained a certified letter from a church was deemed null and void and many times the couple would have to "marry again"!

Also what denomination were they?

If Mary left Ireland at age 15/16 that would have been 1887/1888 approx.
She would have been underage to marry.

There is a marriage of a Mary Field to a Henry Butler in Dublin in 1893 could this be them?

Are they on UK census on other years?
and especially in 1911, does this refer to years married?

If her father was an undertaker, bear in mid in the 1870s this may mean he was a carpenter, cabinet maker, upholsterer, etc. references to him may be to his trade; he would have to have been the owner of the business to show up on directories of the time.
Field is a bad name for searching for obvious reasons, so the more information the better for searching
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: butlersearch on Tuesday 08 April 14 16:19 BST (UK)
Hi

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply I will try and answer your questions

Mary field age taken form 1901 census she shows her age as 29 and birthplace Dublin.
I do have Thomas Butler's military record he was in the commissariat and transport corp from 1888 to 1892 he was convicted and imprisoned for theft and discharged in 1892, there is no note of a marriage and his next of kin is his mother Hannah.

I believe them to Roman Catholics.
 
I have discounted the Mary Field and Henry Butler marriage.

Her first child was born in 1893 so that may narrow down time scale for marriage.

I hope some of this may help.

thank you in anticipation

Regards

They are not on 1911 census as a family together,
.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: pdollinger on Monday 25 September 17 20:16 BST (UK)
since this thread is old not sure where its going.  Looking for the parents of michael joseph field and ann field.  the ann field i keep finding is the grandaughter in census of 1901 and cannot find the mother.  wondering if these are the children of the 15/15yo
thanks
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 25 September 17 20:32 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat pdollinger
There are more records online since this thread started so can you clear up a few things so we can try to help.
In which country is the 1901 census you refer to?
Where does it say Michael and Ann were born?
What age are Michael and Ann in the Census so we have an idea when they were born?
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Monday 25 September 17 21:14 BST (UK)
If this is them the parents of Michael appear to be Michael Field and Mary Anne Reilly
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Blackrock/George_s_Place/1312967/
Michaels birth 1884 same address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02681/1987948.pdf
older siblings from 1868
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ks3/
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: butlersearch on Tuesday 26 September 17 11:01 BST (UK)
Good morning

It has been quite a while since I have looked at this so have not updated the information I have since found.

I discounted the Mary Field / Henry Butler marriage but trawling through records I found this to be correct the clue being Henry giving an address in Burton on Trent which I have attached to the family, it was a real eureka moment for me. The marriage took place in 1893 in St Andrews Dublin.

Henry shows his father as Edward Butler, but this is his stepfather Edward Birch.

Mary Fields father is Patrick Field , cab driver, which then led me to a marriage to Elizabeth McCann.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 26 September 17 13:33 BST (UK)
For pdollinger's search

I'd agree with dathai that Mary Anne FIELD aged 55 in 1901 was nee REILLY
and married to Michael FIELD on Mar 02 1862 - LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633711#page/28/mode/1up) #323
Michael FIELD died Sep 18 1890 aged 49 at 32 Georges Ave, Blackrock and is buried in Deansgrange Grave# D4 48 N
Mary Anne FIELD died Apr 08 1902 aged 56 at 22 Georges Ave, Blackrock and is buried in the same grave

They had at least nine children
1864 Denis (d. Jul 11 1900 bur.Deansgrange Grave# U3 32 N)
1866 James
1868 William (d. Feb 16 1893 bur.Deansgrange Grave# D4 48 N)
1869 Mary (d. before 1872)
1871 Michael (d. before 1884)
1872 Mary Anne (d. Mar 28 1878 bur.Deansgrange Grave# S54N)
1875 Thomas Patrick
1877 Ellen/Helen (d. May 08 1897 bur.Deansgrange Grave# D4 48 N)
1884 Michael

Denis/Dennis FIELD(s) married Mary KENNY on Dec 04 1885 in Kilmacud, Stillorgan - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10884/5975323.pdf)

They are the parents of an Ellen FIELD - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02605/1962035.pdf) born May 18 1886
There is however a baptism for an Anne FIELDS in
DoB May 17 1886 and DoBap May 23 1886
Her parents are shown as Dennis FIELDS and Mary KELLY
and the sponsors Thomas KINSELLA and Ellen FIELD
The address is the same address as the civil birth record: Brookfield, Blackrock
The baptism notes she married James DOYLE on Apr 16 1917 - LINK (http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633697#page/219/mode/1up)

At the time of the marriage Annie FIELD was a widow named STACK - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09745/5536303.pdf)

She had first married James STACK on Jan 14 1913 - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09890/5593090.pdf)
Although I note that he signed his name as Edward STACK

They had one son Denis STACK on Aug 29 1913 - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567377.pdf)
This states that his father Edward STACK was deceased but there is not an obvious matching Irish record
I think that Denis STACK died in 1927 aged 14 - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1927/04972/4354209.pdf)

Denis FIELD and Mary KENNY had at least two other children
William Charles b 1888 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02497/1926277.pdf); possible death in 1889 aged 0 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/9f78a015566557?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3D%26namel%3Dfield%26location%3DRathdown%26yyfrom%3D1886%26yyto%3D1901%26submit%3DSearch)
He died Jul 11 1889 aged 8 months at 30 Georges Ave, Blackrock and is buried in Deansgrane Grave# U3 32 N

Jane b 1890 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02410/1898689.pdf); she died on Sept 21 1891 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06064/4729032.pdf)
She is buried in the same grave in Deansgrange Grave# U3 32 N

Mary FIELD nee KENNY died aged 35 on Jun 13 1893 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05995/4705641.pdf)
She is buried in the same grave in Deansgrange Grave# U3 32 N

Denis FIELD died on Jul 11 1900 at the Hospice in Harold's Cross; address: 15 Temple Rd Blackrock; aged 35 and is buried in the same grave as his wife and two children - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05754/4625167.pdf)




Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 26 September 17 14:31 BST (UK)
The three FIELD children that lived until 1901 were

(1) Michael FIELD is on the 1901 census with his widowed mother and niece Annie; I don't see him in 1911

(2) Thomas FIELD married Elizabeth BYRNE on Feb 02 1896 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10479/5816899.pdf)
They are on the 1901 census with three children at 4 in Fords Court (Blackrock, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Blackrock/Fords_Court/1312945/)
and also on the 1911 census at 16.2 in Carysfort Avenue, Part of (Blackrock No. 2, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Blackrock_No__2/Carysfort_Avenue__Part_of/88767/)

(3) James FIELD married Ellen FAGAN on Jan 29 1888 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10758/5923595.pdf)
They are on the 1901 census at 22 in George's Avenue (Blackrock, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Blackrock/George_s_Avenue/1313003/)
and on the 1911 census at 16 in George's Place (Blackrock No. 2, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000228495/)
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 26 September 17 15:43 BST (UK)
3 pots at a possible Michael av age 2yrs younger but birth date 6th June Blackrock
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFD9-C94  met by cousin Mrs Jenning Coyne

1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MG3R-TRD

1922
A bit confusing this one  asked where residing now ''Dead''
Object of visit  ''Settle estate and visit relatives''
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-896B-ZDQN?i=722&cc=2185145

edited to add ''and that my father is now Dead

Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 26 September 17 16:11 BST (UK)
1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MG3R-TRD

1922
Object of visit  ''Settle estate and visit relatives''
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-896B-ZDQN?i=722&cc=2185145

Nice find dathai

Michael Joseph FIELD born Jun 06 1884 died Mar 29 1945 at 11:40pm of Cerebral Thrombosis
His address was 131 Terrace Ave, Delaware, PA
His father was shown as Michael FIELD of Blackrock, Dublin and his mother as Mary A CARROLL
This information was given by his wife Helen R. FIELD nee CONNOR aged 43
He was buried on Apr 3 1945 in Holy Cross cemetery
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: pdollinger on Tuesday 26 September 17 18:39 BST (UK)
I guess what i really need first is who are the parents of ann field born about 1887 and listed in the 1901 census as gradaughter of mary ann (nee reilly) field. thanks
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 26 September 17 19:23 BST (UK)
The Anne Field listed was the daughter of Denis Field and Mary Kenny

The family of Michael Field and Mary Anne Reilly are accounted for above.

There is no other birth at that time of a daughter named Anne that I can see.

You can see the number of children James and Thomas had on the 1911 census and can account for them all.

I would be 95% sure of this parentage
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: pdollinger on Tuesday 26 September 17 22:15 BST (UK)
thanks a million, you got me started with an entire missing link.  Anyone wanting the information on any who came to the united states, mostly in laws, I have all that.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: pdollinger on Friday 29 September 17 00:53 BST (UK)
Since I can't seem to access where you find the information would it be imposing to ask Mary ann field (michaels sister) born 1837 married a miles carroll and best i can figure he died in 1879 dublin.  she had four children who all came to the united states, Philadelphia, pennsylvania.  Her oldest Mary Jane born sept 1864 or 1867 (depending on what you believe) was my great grandmother on maternal side. supposedly his father was also miles (myles).
thanks
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Friday 29 September 17 09:02 BST (UK)
There is a Myles Carroll ,Clontarf buried Glasnevin 1879 age 36
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/

children
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ksy/

Mary Jane number 100 here born 7th Sep 1864 Stradbrook father a dealer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03607/2330835.pdf
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Friday 29 September 17 09:29 BST (UK)
Last known child William 1870 also born Stradbtook father a farmer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03336/2223144.pdf
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: Sinann on Friday 29 September 17 09:39 BST (UK)
Mary Jane Carroll 1864 Blackrock
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRWY-JYV

Other Carroll/Field children
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ksz/
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: Sinann on Friday 29 September 17 09:49 BST (UK)
No marriages for Blackrock
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0506
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Friday 29 September 17 09:50 BST (UK)
575 here
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633697#page/47/mode/1up
Michael John Carroll born 3rd Nov 1860 Temple Hill,Blackrock sponsors Michael Field and Anna Carroll
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: Sinann on Friday 29 September 17 10:07 BST (UK)
Dathai can you see that Mary Jane baptism in Blackrock, the only one I can see is Mary Johanna to Myles and Mary with no surname Field recorded
1011
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633697#page/75/mode/1up
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Friday 29 September 17 10:46 BST (UK)
Yes Johanna latin usually used for Jane or Julia note the sponsors Matthew Whelan and Elizabeth Carroll ,i saw a man of that name being sponsor for children of Patrick Carroll and Elizabeth Whelan one of their children was baptised in Stradbrook
923 here
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633697#page/69/mode/1up

may have moved to Dublin City
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kt0/

possible 1901 ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Upper_Kevin_Street/1347598/
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: Sinann on Friday 29 September 17 10:59 BST (UK)
Still Field isn't down for the mother, I've seen this difference between FamilySearch and NLI parish records before, I bet if we could look the baptism up on RootsIreland thay would have Field as well.
Title: Re: undertakers dublin
Post by: dathai on Friday 29 September 17 11:14 BST (UK)
William of Matthew Whelan and Anne Carroll ,Stradbrook 1864
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03628/2339625.pdf
strangley enough his birth is just above Denis Field on that page

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kt1/

1901 ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Blackrock/George_s_Place/1312952/

son  Valentine
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s_donnybrook_mf_1854-1905_ma_0239
or
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10200/5711817.pdf