RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: hotrodpansy on Friday 04 April 14 16:05 BST (UK)
-
I have William Rush Bruce born 1788 Hintlesham - died March 1870 Ipswich. I am unable to find his baptism. Someone on here took a look a few years ago, but couldnt find it for Hintlesham. I believe his parents were John Bruce & Hannah Rush who married in Hintlesham in October 1785.
If someone could take a look at the surrounding villages for me then it would be appreciated.
Thank you Hotrodpansy
-
Were you able to find out all the info on William Rush Bruce?
Do you know what he was doing in Ipswich (St Margaret's Parish) in 1834?
Today I have just found him witnessing a non family marriage!
Any ideas?
-
Hello Dulverton, Sadly I am still looking for his birth, no leads yet....I have googled countless leads but all lead nowhere for me....
This sounds interesting.....could you supply some details, as anything might help. In 1841 he was a beer house keeper in Cox Lane married to his second wife Maria Reeve......I am hoping that the names that you give me, just may link in somehow.....Looking forward to your reply....Regards Hotrodpansy
-
Looking through earlier posts on this man I can't see (unless I missed it) that anyone actually searched Hintlesham baptisms. They are not online anywhere pre 1813 and would need to be done at/via the record office. I cannot see online any baptisms anywhere to a John and Hannah so either they were non-conformists and children baptised in a non-conformist church whose records are not available online or, they did indeed have children baptised at Hintlesham and these records have not been searched.
It might be worth an email to Ipswich Record Office and ask if they could check to see if William Rush Bruce's baptism is indeed in Hintlesham baptisms as the records themselves not online.
Annette
-
Hi,
It might be worth an email to Ipswich Record Office and ask if they could check to see if William Rush Bruce's baptism is indeed in Hintlesham baptisms as the records themselves not online.
An alternative would be to buy the CD of baptisms from the Suffolk Family History Society covering the Colneis & Samford Deaneries (1754 - 1812) as Hintlesham is included in the disc.
Their address is here;
http://www.suffolkfhs.co.uk/osc/product_info.php?cPath=31_35&products_id=382
Alan
-
Hi Annette & Alan, Suffolk sue took a look for me using the suffolk marriage index and found the possible parents being married in Hintlesham (John Bruce & Hannah Rush) but could not find a baptism for William, she did find a marriage for him in St Margarets Ipswich in 1808 to Elizabeth Finch. Although I have no further info on his parents, everything fits, inc Rush which is Williams middle name. I understand that he could have been baptised in another area and was hoping that someone may take a look at the surrounding areas. I have contacted the Ipswich Records Office numerous times over the past 4yrs, I offered to pay, but no reply has ever been received. I have just sent another request, from their main page which gives there email address. Any ideas?
-
The CD referred to by ribbo39 is the Suffolk Baptism Index - this is on FindMyPast but can't find any entries for Hintlesham at all (just doing a random search for a William, no surname, any time. Weird!!
I read where Suffolk Sue had looked at marriages but didn't seem to be baptisms too.
I know that member 'annes' visits the record office - perhaps she would take a look for you. Don't know what else to suggest.
Annette
-
Were you able to find out all the info on William Rush Bruce?
Do you know what he was doing in Ipswich (St Margaret's Parish) in 1834?
Today I have just found him witnessing a non family marriage!
Any ideas?
Apologies for the error, I am using a very old PC as my new HP is kaput!
I was looking for the following record:
Robert Issac Dennett (married by Banns) Susan Ann Wilson on the 30th June 1834 at St Margaret's church, Ipswich, Suffolk.
The marriage was witnessed by William Rush Bruce & Lettice Wilson.
The name of "Lettice Wilson" was given to many girls and married women living in the area.I intend to check the signatures of all named girls in the hope that I can identify who person who attended the wedding (Could be her sister or a cousin?).
I do know that the couple had run away from Stradroke, Suffolk (about 20 miles north, north east of Ipswich) as their parents thought that they were too young. After a while they emigrated to the Unites States. They were joined in 1854 by Susan's widowed brother Simon Borret Wilson and his daughter, Ann Mary, his wife Mary nee Bayles having died in 1839.
Ann Mary married in the US a boy from Stradbroke Eli Thomas Mills.
You should beware that certain good burghers (the squire, parson and landlords etc) of Stradbroke were very keen to rid the parish of the "indigent poor", organising (maybe with Government assistance) the transportation of single men & women and people of ill repute or uncouth habits to Canada, Australia and US! I believe that over 200 local inhabitants were forcibly removed from the parish during the period 1815 to 1860.
I understand that William Rush Bruce lived in the Cox Lane area of Ipswich. This was a densely populated area of extreme poverty even up to WW2. People lived in "courts", a group small cramped dwellings all sharing common facilites.
These properties were not demolished until about 1937-1938. Cox Lane area has been a car park for over 50 years.
It is less than 10 minutes walk from there to St Margaret's church.
Can you recap on the definitive information that you hold on William Rush Bruce and from where it was obtained?
Have you obtained a copy of the second marriage in 1838 of William Rush Bruce as it may well state the name of his father?
Just supply the fact enclo speculative info with a (?) and unknown dates as C1831. This will help any person trying to assist you.
There was a Bruce family living in nearby Raydon (NOT Rayden) & Hadleigh in the 18th century
-
Hi Dulverton
Thanks for all the info supplied. It does look like my William Rush Bruce, he would have been around the age of 46 when he witnessed this, so perhaps Robert was a friend or maybe linked in with work somehow. The 1841 census, has William as a Beer House Keeper married to Maria Reeve but also a newspaper article dated 1839 lists an auction of a freehold substantial dwelling in Cox Lane in the occupation of William Bruce...I am assuming one and the same!.
Hepzibah from Rootschat has just been to the Ipswich Records Office and did a look up for me, which confirmed John Bruce & Hannah Rush are the parents, and their marriage.
Interesting point on obtaining the 2nd marriage certificate, it just didnt occur to me that it might hold his fathers name.
Thanks again for all your help and very interesting information.
Regards Hotrodpansy
-
Please let me know the marriage information that you hold for William Rush Bruce & Maria Reeve.
I will then attempt to trace the actual record, assuming that it occurred in a church.
-
Hi
William Rush Bruce married Maria Reeve on the 31st Dec 1824 Hintlesham? William was a widower. I dont have an image of the original entry in the registers. Let me know if you find one, so I can download it please....Thank you Regards Hotrodpansy
-
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records?firstname=william%20rush&firstname_variants=true&lastname=bruce&keywordsplace=suffolk
-
I notice that you have been getting help and assistance from Suffolk Sue & Hephzibah with your investigations.
They are very knowledgable and are aware of all the wrinkles and tricks in ferreting out the required information, in addition they are very generoous with their time.
Lucky you!
-
Glad that Hephzibah was able to confirm that William Rush Bruce was indeed baptised in Hintlesham (just didn't seem to me reading your previous thread that the baptisms at Hintlesham had actually been checked before which was indeed the case).
I note that his first marriage to Elizabeth Finch was also at St. Margarets, Ipswich on 10/2/1808 so he was familiar with the area.
Dulverton's suggestion that his 2nd marriage would have given the name of his father is incorrect. Prior to the start of civil registration in 1837 parish marriages did not state father's names, just their status so something to keep in mind.
Annette
-
Just for my own curiosity - as no children with William and Maria on census - I looked to see if he had any children with Elizabeth and noted at least 4:
William b.1/8/1808, bp.7/8/1808 Kersey - bur.8/2/1818 Hintlesham
then twins
Mary Ann bp.8/2/1818 - bur.19/5/1818 Hintlesham
Sarah Ann bp.8/2/1818 - bur.19/5/1818 Hintlesham
William bp.8/7/1820 Hintlesham
With a 10 year gap between the first William and the twins (how tragic that he and twins all died in the same year, indeed the 3 month twins being buried on the same day) were there any other children born during this period? I note Elizabeth was bur.16/9/1823 Hintlesham.
I cannot see the 2nd. William born 1820 on census - did he survive?
This family have piqued my interest.
Annette
-
Hi Annette
Yes.....a daughter called Harriett selena Bruce born 1810ish Hintlesham...my gtx3 grandmother who I have never been able to find her baptism?? ....been looking on & off for years.
Very sad.......Elizabeth being the mother who died in 1823, leaving William (father) with baby William who did infact survive. I obtained a copy of the father William's will who says that in 1861 when the will was written that his son William was in the Cape of Good Hope. I have made enquiries as to what he could be doing there? awaiting some replies.
I do find it odd that the only baptism that we cant find for this family is Harriett?? Could it be spelt another way?? regards Hotrodpansy
-
With regards to Harriet Selina, what a shame you hadn't mentioned her on this thread too as it may well be that her baptism is indeed at Hintlesham, as William's was, and could also have been checked. I note that one online tree shows a date of 6/10/1810 Hintlesham suggesting that it did take place there (occurring pre 1813 when Hintlesham baptisms not online).
Possibility for son William - cannot see him in 1841 when William and Maria are living at St. Margaret, Ipswich. In 1851 a William Bruce, Sergeant in 91st Rifles, unmarried, 29, born St. Margaret, Suffolk was at Dover Castle Barracks. I cannot see in other records a William Bruce born in St. Margaret's, Ipswich. If William and Maria moved to Ipswich shortly after their marriage to St. Margaret's parish perhaps young William thought that was where he was born.
Cannot find any further trace of this William so perhaps he was indeed the one who went to South Africa. Certainly the 91st were in South Africa in the 1850's. Something to keep in mind anyway.
Annette
-
Hi Annette
Hepzibah was the person who checked the baptism's at the Ipswich office and I had asked for any brothers/sisters, but they ran out of time so I didnt feel that I could give them more to look up and was thankful for what they had done. I will have to put up a new post for Harriet.
You have found the only record for William which I had found myself and made a note of....its a great possibility. Sue Mackay has been looking into possibilities in South Africa, but tbh we dont know why he was out there, it appears he married and had 2 children, but his fathers inheritance was here waiting for him in 1870, he doesnt seem to appear on any passenger lists? to return and collect his inheritance and also the marriage/children could be incorrect, but interestingly he has used the middle name of Rush (like his father) at the baptism's of his children.
I am very interested in your knowledge of the 91st rifle's....South Africa in the 1950's....I have been trying to research this but I couldnt find out much info that was relevant. Can you make a suggestion?
I agree with you about Williams birth, he was a baby when Elizabeth died and his father William remarried in St Margarets Church Ipswich, so naturally he would assume that he was born there.
Regards Hotrodpansy
-
Afraid I don't have any knowledge of 91st Rifles - just 'googled'.
You say William junior married and that 2 children were baptised with him stating his name as William Rush Bruce, like his father. Where and when did these baptisms take place?
Annette
-
Hi
I googled too for the 91st Rifles, I found them but couldnt find the detail on 1850 in South Sfrica.
I was helped by Nookie here on Rootschat, she found Wm jnr in Kingwilliamstown, married to Dorcas and at the baptism of the 2 children, I quote:
"Although I have not managed to find out when or why he came out to South Africa I found that he was based in Kingwilliamstown where he had married and had the following two children (at least). They were baptised in the Methodist Church. Kingwilliamstown was only proclaimed a town in 1877, so I wonder if he was not perhaps a farmer."
Eleanor Jane BRUCE
Parents: William Rush and Dorcas
Born: 6/1/1874
Baptized: 8/31/1874
James Joseph BRUCE
Parents: William Rush and Dorcas
Born: 1/27/1876
Baptized: 3/19/1876
Rush being an unusual middle name, we both think that it is him.
I have scrolled through passenger lists which I just googled but nothing......I checked his children too. I did find an Eleanor Bruce in her later life, obviously not married as still retained Bruce, but the detail is so vague, that I cannot confirm that it is her, I would just be making it fit.
Thanks for taking an interest.
Regards hotrodpansy
-
The link I found was:
http://www.mbendi.com/orgs/1422/e176.htm
After the article there is a link to men who served in South Africa and listed is 'Mr. William Bruce was a member of the 91st (Argyllshire) Regiment during South Africa's 7th and 8th Frontier Wars of 1846-1853. He is listed as having been awarded the South Africa 1853 Medal'.
I have now found a public tree on Ancestry which states:
William Rush Bruce (b.1832 Winterberg, Cape) married Dorcas Boucher (b.1836 Winterberg) on 30/6/1856 St. Johns Parish Church, Winterton, South Africa
Children:
Elenore Jane (no other details so presumably they had not found her baptism)
William Bloomfield b.25/4/1858 Post Retief, Winterberg
George Henry b.19/8/1859 Post Retief, Winterberg
Charles Vickers b.25/8/1862 Kaalhoek, Winterton
Harriet Anne b.10/7/1865 (no place given)
Charlotte Matilda b.23/11/1865 Post Retief
Alexander b.19/9/1874 (?) Knysna
James Joseph b.27/1/1876
Ivy Jane b.7/12/1893 (?) Post Retief
With a nine year gap between Charlotte and Alexander wonder whether the date for Alexander is wrong bearing in mind the baptism you have for Eleanor Jane in 1874. Suspect either the date is wrong for Ivy Jane (or, if not, the wrong parents).
The tree shows William Rush Bruce was a Schoolmaster. I suspect the birthdates/birthplaces shown for he and wife Dorcas are simply 'guesstimates' by the owner of the tree - no death dates shown for either. The owner of the tree has not logged in for over a year.
Hope this all adds to the detail anyway.
Annette
-
Hi Annette
I cant thank you enough, through your skills and expertise and experience, you have managed to break down this wall in a matter of days.....while I have been looking for years without much luck only gleaning small amounts of info which at the end of the day didnt know was correct.
This is so exciting and opens up a new thread for me to follow. Can I ask the name of the tree and its owner, so I can look for myself as I am an Ancestry member and I couldnt find it.....mind you the birth date is roughly 12yrs out against mine, but of course there could be many possibilities as to why that is! The parents had their first William Bruce in 1808 Hintlesham but he died in 1818 then the second William Bruce was born 1820 (Family search has the record) same parents and I assumed that was who we are looking for?....I think it is one and the same because his mother Elizabeth Bruce (nee Finch) died in 1823 and the baptism for William on Family Search clearly states Elizabeth as his mother. For a minute I thought that this William could have been from his second marriage to Maria Reeve but I feel that it isant. I feel like you that the ages are just guesses and this is the correct family and of course, ties in perfectly with his fathers will.
The place you mentioned 'Winterberg' I have never heard of, so some research needed there
I will check the link for the 91st Regiment....this will be interesting
Could I ask a question, what does 'Post Retief' mean?
Well, at the end of the day, I am thrilled that he survived and went on to marry and have quite a large family......:) Regards Jenny
-
Glad I was able to help.
Post Retief is in Winterberg (there are Winterberg Mountains - although I'm a bit confused as googling shows it's in Western Cape or Eastern Cape. Let's just settle for The Cape!!)
Post Retief was a barracks as far as I can see.
The tree is named 'Cooks Family Feb 2012' and the owner is rodcooks.
My search screen on ancestry is usually set on 'UK and Irish' and I didn't even bother to change it. Just entered 'William Rush' in Christian names and 'Bruce' in surname (no other details at all) - on results screen just scrolled down to 'Public Trees' and he's the first entry.
Hope you can find it okay.
Annette
-
Here is the information that you requested:
Marriage register St Mary, Hintlesham, Suffolk
Page 18
William Rush Bruce (widower) of Hintlesham
Maria Reeve (single woman) of this parish
Married in this church by Banns this 31st day of December in the Year 1824
This marriage was solemnized between us } William Rush Bruce (apparently signed)
} Maria Reeve ("marked" her name)
In the presence of } William Douising (sic Dousing?) & John Woods (both signed)
Registry entry number 52
-
Hi Dulverton
Thanks for taking a look. Was never completely sure that Maria was a spinster when she married and now I know. Will research the witnesses names and maybe find a link through business or friendship.
Regards hotrodpansy
-
Hi, I am trying to find a copy of the Last Will and Testament of William Rush Bruce born 1788 died 1870 of Hintlesham, Suffolk. If someone can provide this to me or point me in the right direction to obtain this it will be appreciated. Many thanks.
-
Just go to:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
You need to search in the section 1858-1996 - enter surname Bruce, year 1870 and a search brings up 10 pages. Your man is on page 6. A section comes up on the right hand side of your screen where you can enter the full details and order (leave Folio blank).
Only costs £1.50 and you'll be notified by email when available and just go to the site and download it.
Takes around 2 weeks at the moment - I ordered one on 11th April which is due to be available on 26th April.
Annette
-
Thanks Annette, funny I ordered one earlier today prior to seeing your post. I take it you are from South Africa and also a distant relative of William Rush Bruce. Regards Ernest
-
Funny enough I also searched and found the site and before reading your post ordered the will. Thanks for your help. Annette are you also from South Africa and a family member of the William Rush Bruce heritage? Regards.
-
William Bruce was an Acting Sergeant of Police when he married Dorcas Boucher. The image is on FamilySearch - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKD-79DW-F?cc=2821281
Dorcas Bruce (born Boucher) was apparently a widow when she died in 1903. This is as per her death notice on FamilySearch.
William Bloomfield Bruce's estate file is on FamilySearch and lists his parents as William Rush Bruce and Dorcas Bruce (born Boucher).
Ivy Jane Bruce born 1893 was a daughter of Charles Vickers Bruce - this info is also on FamilySearch.
-
Thanks Patkzn. appreciate the information that helps to complete the picture. I found a burial record for a William Bruce in the Maitland cemetery in 1895 stating that the person was 80 years old that may be our William Rush Bruce who may have travelled to Cape Town to be near Dorcas who was institutionalized at Falkenberg for Dementia. She died in 1903 and is also buried in the Maitland cemetery. The search goes on.
-
Hi Patkzn
Thanks for all the information and help.
Could I ask where is the link for this? William Bloomfield Bruce's estate file is on FamilySearch and lists his parents as William Rush Bruce and Dorcas Bruce (born Boucher). and do you know what is meant by "estate file"?
I have looked on Family search but cannot find it?
Many thanks
-
The link for William Bloomfield Bruce's file is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91S-W35H-B?i=335&cc=2517051&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQGKL-WDZB
Estate file is the probate file.
-
Thank you Patkzn, I will take a look.