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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Evertonian2 on Thursday 03 April 14 15:53 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me where my ggggrandfather Emmanuel Theobald Hutchinson was born or baptised (around 1795 I think). Married Mary Ellershaw at Tunstall in 1822, and lived all his life in Leck. In all the censuses and gave his birthplace as Leck. Died in 1879. In 1841 census I think he said that he was not born in Lancashire - perhaps Westmorland? The only possibilities I have found on IGI are a) Emmanuel Hutchison (no n) 1802 in Renfrew (but the family names don't match) or b) a reference to a birth of the right date in Barbados. Is this possible? Can anyone help? I would be most grateful for any help given.
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I cannot find a birth on line for Emmanuel and the whereabouts of records for Leck pre 1800 are not exactly clear. I did come across the following baptism at Manchester Cathedral on 12 Jun 1796, parents James Hutchinson & Betty but no Christian name for the child. However it looks from other possible baptisms, which may link to them, they may have moved around the county
I did find his death/burial record but the date differs to yours?
Emmanuel Hutchinson Death was registered Jul 1872 - Lunesdale, Lancashire
Emmanuel Hutchinson Age: 76 (1796) Burial Date: 9 Aug 1872 Leck, Lancashire
I also found the Barbados connection, the first entry 1817 the last 1834.
Slave Registers of former British Colonial Dependencies, 1812-1834 on Ancestry.
These show records of slave births, an Emanuel John Cock Hutchinson is noted as a slave owner.
Regards
Colin
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Marriage: 21 Sep 1822 St John the Baptist, Tunstall, Lancashire, England
Emanuel Theobalds Hutchinson - (X), this Parish
Mary Ellershaw - (X), this Parish
Witness: Robert Parker Wilson; Thomas Clarkson
Married by Banns by: William Carus Wilson, Vicar
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Manny Hutchinson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 10 August 1794 Farlam, Cumberland, England
residence: Farlam, Cumberland, England
father: Robert Hutchinson
mother: Jane Bell
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There is a christening for
Emanuel Theobalds Hutchinson on Ancestry.
I don't have the right subscription to view it.
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There is a baptism on familysearch for Emmanuel Theobalds Wilkinson born to Mary Wilkinson 13 September 1794 at Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland.
As this is a transcription, it might be worth having a look at the original (the registers are held at Kendal Records Office), in case it is actually a hard to read Hutchinson.
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I am most grateful to all of you who have given me ideas - I am a newcomer to the site and am overwhelmed how helpful everyone is. Manny Hutchinson is described in the transcript as female, so that may not be relevant. It seems to me that the Wilkinson reference is the most likely, since the occurrence of the two unusual Christian names so close to Leck is too great a coincidence. I will try to have a look at the Kirkby Lonsdale registers to check. I suppose it is also possible that Mary Wilkinson subsequently married a Hutchinson, and little Emmanuel was 'adopted' by her husband. So far I have not tracked down a Mary Wilkinson/Hutchinson marriage between 1794 and 1810. What do you think?
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I did wonder whether Emanuel's mother might have later married a Hutchinson, but can't see anything likely on familysearch. It is certainly a possibility.
There is a possible candidate for Emanuel's father. Emanuel Theobald/s, an agricultural labourer of Strickland Roger, near Kendal. Ancestry has transcribed his age in the 1841 census as 40, but I think 60 is what is actually written, and he was probably a little older, as ages were usually rounded down in that census. He died in 1847.
Emanuel Theobald married Ann Martindale at Bolton-le-Sands in 1803. (It's on the Ancestry and the Lancs OPC site). Unusually for the time, their ages are recorded. Emanuel was 30.
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On Tuesday I checked the transcripts and registers of Kirkby Lonsdale at Kendal record office. To my surprise I could find no record of Emmanuel Theobalds Wilkinson in 1793, 1794 or 1795. I was taken by surprise, because I assumed that a reference in Familysearch which was so detailed should link to a record. In my experience, a tentative or putative birth usually has given the date as "about 1794". why would anyone "invent" a person with such detail who doesn't exist? What is the next step in investigating this reference, since I am certain that if it exists it has relevance to my Emmanuel? Has anyone got any ideas?
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I'm sorry about this. It didn't occur to me that 'Kirkby Lonsdale' in a familysearch entry doesn't necessarily mean 'Kirkby Lonsdale'. Which is what I now find to be the case. :-[
I did a google search on the GS film number for the Wilkinson entry ( 1471665), and came up with this:
Firbank, Westmoreland, England - Church records
Title: Parish registers for Kirkby-Lonsdale, 1538-1910
Authors: Church of England. Parish Church of Kirkby-Lonsdale (Westmoreland)
Film Items:
Microfilm 1471665 Draft register of baptisms, marriages, burials, 1738-1769; Draft register of baptisms, 1778-1831; Draft register of burials, 1778-1830; Draft register of banns and churchings, 1784-1812; Draft register of baptisms at Mansergh and Lupton chapels, 1759-1789; Draft register of baptisms at Hutton Roof Chapel, 1766-1799; Transcript of register, 1538-1616.
So from this I think it looks as though the baptism of Emanuel Theobalds Wilkinson may be in the register for Firbank, or Hutton Roof Chapel. Which at least explains why it isn't in the Kirkby Lonsdale register, but you've suffered a wasted journey, which I can only apologise for.
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Have you checked the baptism on Ancestry? Many libraries have free access to the site.
Emmanuel Theobalds Hutchinson.
Heather
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Galium
I got the impression that the Kirkby Lonsdale registers that I looked at included the various chapels round about, including Hutton Roof and Firbank. I may be wrong. I will have to have another look or check with the staff whether these registers are separate. Incidentally when we tried to duplicate the info from Familysearch at the Register Office, the programme wouldn't connect to the site because they only have Windows XP - so that was a bit frustrating as well. C'est la vie! Thanks again for your help.
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Heather
Thanks for your suggestion. Yes, I have checked Ancestry which I have, but not luck, I'm afraid.
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Galium
I have today checked all the transcripts for the parishes round Kirkby Lonsdale, including Firbank, Killington, Mansergh and Hutton Roof. No trace of a baptism for Emmanuel Theobalds Wilkinson (or Hutchinson). I am completely mystified by this. It looks as if this individual is a hopeful fabrication by someone who doesn't in fact know the details, but as I said before, I can't understand why the reference should be so detailed. By the way, I live in Preston, so it isn't that far to Kendal and it is a nice place to visit, so I don't so much! However, it is very frustrating no being able to find an Emmanuel. Have you got any further ideas on this?
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It's a good thing you like visiting Kendal!
I don't really know what to suggest. However, I don't think that the baptism is one of those unreliable 'patron submissions' from the old IGI (It is still possible to search the old index, here: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi and that one doesn't seem to be on it).
According to information on the familysearch site, the England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 collection which contains the Wilkinson entry, " may include information previously published in the International Genealogical Index or Vital Records Index collections." However it isn't on the Vital Records Index (which I have on disc) either.
When you say you looked at 'transcriptions', do you mean that you saw film/fiche of original registers/ bishop's transcripts, or a more modern printed transcript (which might have had entries missed out in error)? I believe it is also the case that original registers may contain entries that were missed off the bishop's transcripts, and bishop's transcripts occasionally have more information than the original. I notice that the description of the LDS film 1471665 in my last post mentions "draft registers", but I am not sure what this might mean.
You could perhaps see whether the Family History Centre at Chorley can help:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Preston_England_Family_History_Centre
I've never used a Family History Centre myself, but there are Rootschatters who have if you need further information. I think that you would have to order the relevant film, and then visit the centre to view it.
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Thanks again for your interest. I did look at written and printed transcripts. To be honest, I expected to find the reference there straightaway, and was taken aback when I couldn't find it. I searched over the whole decade for all the sub-parishes I mentioned and there wasn't a single Emmanuel anywhere. It did occur to me that the reference might have been omitted from the transcripts, but that seemed to me such a coincidence that it was unlikely. I confess that I was extremely disappointed. My wife and I decided to have a chocolate at the Kendal Chocolate House to console ourselves! I suppose the only thing left now is to visit the Family History Centre at Chorley. I have visited it once before, years ago. They were certainly very helpful. This won't happen for a while, though, because we will be away on holiday for a bit. Anyway, here's hoping! Thanks again.