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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: c more on Monday 24 March 14 00:39 GMT (UK)
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There is a marriage for Sophia Susannah NATT to Samuel TUCKWELL 16 OCT 1854 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London. I don't have the marriage certificate.
Sophia Susannah NATT was born 21 Dec 1837 in Chelsea, Middlesex daughter of George NATT and Susannah FREESTONE. I am trying to trace what happened to Sophia and Samuel after 1854.
I believe this is them on the 1861 census
York Barracks, Gate Fulford, Yorkshire
Samuel TUCKWELL age 25 ba 1836 Scotland, Sergeant 12 Royal Lancers
Sophia S TUCKWELL age 24 ba 1837 Chelsea Middlesex
After that I can find nothing for them.
I would be grateful for any help or suggestions.
Thanks Leonie
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The Aldershot Military Gazette of 10 May 1862 mentions a clarionet solo by Sergeant Tuckwell of the 12th Lancers at the Aldershot Institute.
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Samuel also played a clarionet solo at the York Peoples Concert in February 1861, and the York Herald (16th Feb) records that he is the son of Mr Tuckwell, formerly bandmaster of the 5th Dragoons.
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Samuel was in Sheffield in 1865 (Sgt Tuckwell 12th Lancers conducted the police band at a detective's funeral - Sheffield & Rotherham Independent January 16th)
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Probably them in Glasgow in 1871 (6 Brace Street):
Samuel Tuckwell 34 Teacher of Music
? Tuckwell 30
Frederick Tuckwell 9
Albert Tuckwell 7
Carles Tuckwell 2
All born England
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Thanks ShaunJ
So will have to look for birth christening for Frederick, Albert and Charles TUCKWELL in possibly York and Sheffield.
Any sign of that family after 1871?
Leonie
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I wouldn't set too much store by the "all born England" bit. Samuel was born in Scotland per the 1861 census.
Also I'm not sure if that is Charles or Carlos.
There was a Carlos Tuckwell born in Glasgow 11 December 1868 to Samuel Tuckwell and Jane Singleton, who were married in Glasgow on 3 November 1868.
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Just looking at a different transcription of that 1871 census in Glasgow
6 Braco Street
Samuel Tuckwell 54 Teacher of Music b. England
Jane Tuckwell 30 Teacher of Music b.England
Frederick Tuckwell 9 b. England
Albert Tuckwell 7 b.England
Carlos Tuckwell 2 b. Scotland
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Another child: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQDB-7M2
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So perhaps Sophia TUCKWELL nee NATT died before 1868 and Samuel then married Jane SINGLETON.
I think this might be Samuel TUCKWELL with his family on the 1841 census
St Gregory (Ville) Westgate Kent
Samuel TUCKWELL 30 Music Master not born in County
Charlotte " 30 not born in County
Charlotte " 10 not born in County
Samuel " 6 not born in County
Elizabeth " 4 born Scotland
George " 1 born Scotland
But where did they all go??
thanks Leonie
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If he was in the Army , he may have gone abroad , ?
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Have you seen the comedian "Don Carlos" S Tuckwell on the 1901 census in Aldershot? Born Scotland circa 1870, has an american wife Patricia.
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Just sticking with Carlos/Charles Tuckwell born 1868, there is an army record for a Charles Samuel Tuckwell born Glasgow circa 1868 who joined the Highland Light Infantry in January 1884 aged 15. He was a bugler.
He has a brother Frederick who lived at 4 Sussex Terrace, Mospil (?) Row, Dublin. Charles served in India and was discharged in February 1891 with dementia. His record is marked "Insane".
Also note that Rootsireland.ie has baptisms in Co Kildare for a Carlos Samuel Tuckwell 1868, also Frederick Tuckwell 1862, Albert Edward Tuckwell 1863. All have a father Sam/Samuel but that's as far as I can get without buying credits. Were they baptised in later life perhaps?
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So it looks like the family went to Co Kildare and thence to Dublin.
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There's an 1873 marriage in Dublin for a Samuel Tuckwell - possible spouses are Emily Nightingale, Emily Holmes or Emily Ellis.
Jane Tuckwell died in Dublin on 24 July 1872. Address Lower Clanbrassil Street. Executor Samuel Tuckwell. http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014890/005014890_00346.pdf
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Thanks for all your wonderful info ShaunJ.
I still haven't found a death for Sophia Susannah TUCKWELL but as they seemed to have moved around so much she could have died in Scotland, Ireland or some other country.
I might have to get a copy of the marriage certificate to prove who Samuels father was.
From what you have found it is possible that Sophia was the mother of Frederick and Albert but again would like to find birth registrations to prove it.
Thanks Leonie
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Possible could be Frederick TUCKWELL ba 1862
Found a 1887 army record for Frederick Colville TUCKWELL who was born Portsea Hants, 24 years old. He joined the East Lancashire Regiment in Dublin.
For the question "Have you resided outside of your fathers house for the past 3 years" he has put "yes at No 3 Portland Row Summer Hill Dublin, but paid no rates"
He was educated at the "Royal Military Asylum" and "Royal Hibernian Military School"
Next of Kin sister Charlotte Maria TUCKWELL Emerald Hill Melbourne.
cheers Leonie
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He was educated at the "Royal Military Asylum" and "Royal Hibernian Military School"
That bit is pre-printed on the army form for a yes or no. On image 25681 the answer is "no".
This all looks very interesting Leonie. Now to find the sister !
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From Lan-OPC:
"Marriage: 23 May 1898 St Peter, Burnley, Lancs.
Frederick Colville Tuckwell - 34, Col. Sergt., Bachelor, Barracks, Burnley
Sarah Lord - 25, Spinster, 34 Red Lion St.
Groom's Father: Samuel Tuckwell, Professor Of Music
Bride's Father: James Lord, Farmer
Witness: William Irvine; Betsy Haworth"
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
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Beat me to it Shaun ! :) I saw it on Ancestry but the image for that marriage was incorrect so had to go through the entries to find it to see fathers occupation
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sister Charlotte Maria TUCKWELL Emerald Hill Melbourne
I can't find any trace of her at all !
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Hi thanks for pointing out my mistake re Frederick Colville TUCKWELL being educated at
Royal Military Asylum and Royal Hibernian Military School. Went back and had a look and can see the "no" next to it.
Just going back to the 1871 census entry you found in Scotland for Samuel and Jane TUCKWELL. Was Samuels given as 34 or 54? The age is important.
Per the 1851 census at 51 Milton st Barony Lanarkshire Scotland there is a Samuel TUCKWELL aged 36 Music Teacher and a Samuel TUCKWELL aged 16 a clerk.
Thanks for the marriage details for Frederick TUCKWELL and Sarah LORD.
I have been checking records here in Australia for Charlotte Maria TUCKWELL and have found nothing yet.
Thanks Leonie
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Re the 1871 Scottish census, one transcription has Samuel as 34, another has him at 54. If you buy some credits at Scotlands People, you should be able to view an image of the actual census page
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
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Just checked the 1871 census image and Samuel TUCKWELL is clearly shown as 54 music teacher. So born abt 1817 which would mean that he is probably the father of Samuel TUCKWELL who married Sophia Susannah NATT .
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Also looked at the 1868 marriage of Samuel TUCKWELL to Jane SINGLETON
He was aged 50 widower, father Samuel TUCKWELL Royal Page deceased, mother Mary Ann TUCKWELL nee McNamara deceased.
He is more likely to be the father of Samuel who married Sophia Susannah NATT.
Which would make sense as then Frederick Colville TUCKWELL would have a half sister named Charlotte who per the 1841 census was ba 1831.
So where did Samuel and Sophia Susannah TUCKWELL go?
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Well that's becoming a lot clearer, though it would be interesting to know more about those 3 baptisms in Co Kildare.
I found these baptisms in Salford, both on 27th September 1835:
Samuel Tuckwell
Charlotte Tuckwell
Parents Samuel & Charlotte. The father was band master with the 12th Regiment of Foot and they resided at the Infantry Barracks in Salford.
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Regimental births:
Tuckwell, Charlotte
12th Foot Manchester 1833 Vol 955 Page 43
Tuckwell, Samuel
12th Foot Manchester 1835 Vol 955 Page 43
Tuckwell, Elizabeth
12th Foot, Mauritius 1837 Vol 955 page 44
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Thanks for the Regimental Births Shaun J
I thought there was a website that had Regimental Births, Deaths and Marriages somewhere but couldn't remember which one it was.
I don't know why I said Charlotte would be Fredericks half sister, he could well be a child of Samuel and Charlotte as well.
Have viewed the 1851 Scottish census for Samuel TUCKWELL 35 Music Teacher and he is shown as married so where were his wife rest of his family in 1851 ???
Leonie
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I think I have found out what happened to Charlotte TUCKWELL ba 1833. I think her brother George TUCKWELL became the Rev Father George TUCKWELL.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28263375?searchTerm=%22madame%20marine%20de%20kioux%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=madame+marine+ (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28263375?searchTerm=%22madame%20marine%20de%20kioux%22&searchLimits=exactPhrase=madame+marine+).
Death 1893 Redfern Sydney New South Wales
MARIN DE KIOUX given name Charlotte, Father Samuel, Mother Charlotte.
Another notice says she is the relic of the late Henri MARIN de KIOUX of her Majesty's Customs Mauritius.
And there seems to be another sister Blanche Mary TUCKWELL who married Alexander G ALLAN in Sydney in 1887. She died in Northcote Victoria in 1935 aged 74. Father Samuel TUCKWELL and Mother Mary Ann MARCH..
Samuel must have married after his wife Charlotte died and before he married Jane SINGLETON in Scotland in 1868.
So now trying to find birth and census listings for Blanche Mary TUCKWELL ba 1861 with mother Mary Ann
Thanks Leonie
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Good finds Leonie. I just Googled Marin De Kioux and found this, also from Trove http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/63671854
and the death notice for good measure http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13927956
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More on the Rev George Tuckwell - a bio from 1896
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/8446214
(middle column, bottom of page)
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1916 interview with 91 year -old George Richard Tuckwell who speaks of the Rev George as a half brother - from his millionaire father's third marriage. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/92795385
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Death of Rev George Tuckwell in Manly NSW in 1918 per deceased clergy list http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/92795385
The only death I can find in the BDMs is a George R Tuckwell in Parramatta, parents George R and Rebecca.
Ordination in France in 1882 - previously a civil servant in Mauritius http://archive.thetablet.co.uk/article/5th-august-1882/24/catholic-notes
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It seems the Rev George Tuckwell died in France http://genforum.genealogy.com/tuckwell/messages/81.html
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Mention here of Benjamin and Joseph Tuckwell http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/69693698
They were sons of the Samuel Tuckwell (1780-1863). I don't know about him being bandmaster of King George IV's private band, but there is a Samuel Tuckwell listed as a musician on the Royal Household establishment at the end of King George IV's reign and the beginning of Queen Victoria's reign 1837-1845.
Will post their baptism details next.
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Baptisms at Brighton Wesleyan Chapel - children of Samuel and Mary Tuckwell
William Tuckwell born Feb 28 1814 bap Dec 26 1814
Joseph Tuckwell born July 25 1817 March 25 1818
Alexandra Tuckwell born 28 January 1822 bap 30 June 1822 (Mary's maiden name stated as McNamara, her parents Dennis and Mary))
Benjamin Tuckwell born 30 January 1822 (yes really!) bap 30 June 1822 (same detail for mother as above)
Joseph Tuckwell born 16 January 1823 bap 27 June 1823 (ditto re mother's details)
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Thanks Shaun
This is fantastic.
However the 1916 newspaper article about George Richard TUCKWELL born Parramatta doesn't seem to fit.
His father was a Coach builder and was born in Parramatta also.Will have to look into this a bit more.
Baptsims
So Benjamin TUCKWELL was twin to Alexandra TUCKWELL but born 2 days later :o
Mothers name Mary McNamara which is the same as on the marriage certificate of Samuel TUCKWELL to Jane SINGLETON in 1868.
Joseph TUCKWELL ended up in Australia. I have looked on trove and there is so much about his life on there.
But still haven't found Samuel and Sophia :-\
Thanks Leonie
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More Brighton Wesleyan Chapel baptisms (all to Samuel and Mary Tuckwell):
Ellen born Aug 1 1819 bap Jul 1820
Julia born April 15 1816 bap July 25 1816
Ellen born 7 Oct 1824 bap 6 March 1825
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Possible marriage in York in q/e March 1858 for Samuel Tuckwell and Mary Ann Marsh: York vol 9d page 22.
4 names on the page:
BOTHWELL James
MARSH Mary Anne
STUBBS Sarah
TUCKWELL Samuel
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Something else that doesn't quite add up:
The York Herald in July 1875 reports on a resident band at Bridlington Quay which includes a Mr S Tuckwell on the clarionet, formerly a member of George IV's private band
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Another Wesleyan baptism - this one in Beer lane Chapel, Windsor
Martha Mitchell Tuckwell daughter of Samuel Tuckwell, professor of music and Charlotte his wife, who is the daughter of James and Charlotte ?oughton (Scoughton or Houghton perhaps?) of Liverpool. Born 3 August 1833, baptised 5 March 1834
EDIT
and another one in Windsor:
Caroline Katharina Tuckwell, daughter of Samuel Tuckwell, musician, and Mary his wife daughter of Dennis and Mary McNamara. Born 3 February 1827, baptised 3 February 1828.
This will be Kate Caroline who appears on the censuses and who married Anselm Dudridge Pimbury who was executor to the will of Samuel Tuckwell of Chichester who died in 1863.
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Thanks so much for continuing to work on this for me ShaunJ
The Wesleyan records have so much info one them.
The newspaper article 1875 Yorkshire could possible be Samuel snr or Samuel jnr. We know that Samuel jnr was a Clarinet Player but his father might have been able to play also. Samuel snr was in Ireland in 1874 per his marriage to Emily UNKNOWN.
Read a wonderful story about the life of Joseph TUCKWELL written by himself pity he doesn't mention anything about his parents are family.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10654517?searchTerm="joseph tuckwell"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=joseph+tuckwell (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10654517?searchTerm="joseph tuckwell"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=joseph+tuckwell)
Also found the obituary Rev Father George TUCKWELL which says that he was born in Edinburgh in 1843 ??? Also a article that says he converted 1 brother and 2 sisters to the Catholic Church. There are also bits about his "parents were very strict Presbyterians" I thought Wesleyan was Methodist ???
We should be able to find George and mother Charlotte on the 1851 census somewhere.
Thanks Again
Leonie
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Births Jun 1860
TUCKWELL Blanche Mary Lambeth 1d 280
A tree on Ancestry has a Blanche Mary Philomena Tuckwell born c 1860 in Lambeth and dying in Australia in 1935, and marrying an Alexander Gerard Allan in 1887, and having 2 children, Blanches parents are down as Samuel Tuckwell and Mary Ann Marsh but they've got no sources mentioned to check
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Blanche Mary Allan
Death Place:
Northcote, Victoria
Age:
74
Father's Name:
Samuel Tuckwell
Mother's name:
Mary Ann March
Registration Year:
1935
Registration Place:
Victoria
Registration Number:
2753
Estimated birth year:
abt 1861
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We should be able to find George and mother Charlotte on the 1851 census somewhere.
I wonder if they were in Mauritius. Samuel served in 12th Foot which was in Mauritius in the 1840's, returning in 1847. We know that at least two of his children (Charlotte and George) lived in Mauritius as adults - and there was a Mrs Tuckwell teaching music in Mauritius in 1851 http://tinyurl.com/qb877yw - was that wife Charlotte? Did she elect to stay behind with Charlotte and George when the regiment returned to England?
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Death of Charlotte Tuckwell, aged 52, in Mauritius in 1857 http://www.cgmrgenealogie.org/actes/acte_deces.php?xid=30909&xct=6438
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Mauritius marriages of Elizabeth Tuckwell to George Thomas Bradshaw, and Charlotte Tuckwell to Christopher Henry Morin in 1858:
http://www.cgmrgenealogie.org/actes/acte_mari.php?xid=9671&xct=5382
http://www.cgmrgenealogie.org/actes/acte_mari.php?xid=9662&xct=5920
George Tuckwell is a witness (témoin) to Elizabeth's marriage
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Thanks ShaunJ, :-*
Would never had thought that you would be able to find records for Mauritius on the computer. Wonderful work.
Leonie
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Thanks Jan57
For the info re Blanche Mary ALAN nee TUCKWELL
I found the death for Henri MARIN in 1885 at South Melbourne (which was Emerald Hill) aged 46
Father Christophe. Mother Anne Reni..
I was wondering if you can trace the year and place a regiment of the Army was placed?
As Samuel TUCKWELL jnr was in the 12th Lancers maybe he went over seas with them.
Thanks Leonie
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Just found a death for
Samuel TUCKWELL
Jan-Mar 1882
Scarriff Ireland
Age 75
Est Birth Year 1807
Seems a likely match.
Leonie
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I was wondering if you can trace the year and place a regiment of the Army was placed?
Locations of British Army battalions and depots were widely published in newspapers on a monthly basis, usually under the heading "Stations of The British Army".
The last newspaper report I can find of Sergt Tuckwell of the 12th Lancers is in January 1865. 12th Lancers were posted to Newbridge (Co Kildare) circa May 1865.
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Reports in French and Dutch music journals of a death in "the Indies" on 24 August 1865: Samuel Tuckwell chef de musique of the 4th Regiment des Indes, aged 30
http://tinyurl.com/qac9bk4
http://tinyurl.com/ngrkt63
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Per this French reference, Samuel was with the British 4th Regiment of Foot http://tinyurl.com/nrtgegv
1st Battalion 4th Foot was at Poona in August 1865
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Amazing ShaunJ sad but you found him. :'(
Would it be likely that his wife Sophia went with him "the Indies"
I have checked the BMD for England and there is no marriage or death that fits for Sophia TUCKWELL after 1865 so perhaps she remarried in "the indies" or also died there.
There is a birth Charlotte Sophia TUCKWELL in 1855 in Westminster which I think could possible be a child of Samuel's and Sophia's.
Thanks Leonie
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Yes it's likely that Sophia went with him to India.
What's puzzling is that there is no record of Samuel's death in the GRO army indexes, and nothing in the India Office registers on FindMyPast.
Those French and Dutch journals must have picked up the report from a British publication - it would be good to track down its origin.
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Here's an 1821 mention of Samuel Tuckwell, musician as a member of the Royal Household
"Tuckwell, Samuel Musician 9 Feb. 1821 (LC 3/69, p. 23; LC 3/70, p. 5). D. by 22 Mar. 1866 (LC 5/237, p. 353)." http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43967
This is obviously the grandfather who was living in Brighton at that time. This was during the reign of King George IV, formerly the Prince Regent. See Brighton Pavilion http://www.brighton-hove-rpml.org.uk/RoyalPavilion/Pages/home.aspx.
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What's puzzling is that there is no record of Samuel's death in the GRO army indexes
Thinking about it this would suggest that he was with one of the native infantry regiments (I think there were several of them with 4th in the title)
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Thanks ShaunJ
Here's an 1821 mention of Samuel Tuckwell, musician as a member of the Royal Household
"Tuckwell, Samuel Musician 9 Feb. 1821 (LC 3/69, p. 23; LC 3/70, p. 5). D. by 22 Mar. 1866 (LC 5/237, p. 353)." http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43967
This is obviously the grandfather who was living in Brighton at that time. This was during the reign of King George IV, formerly the Prince Regent. See Brighton Pavilion http://www.brighton-hove-rpml.org.uk/RoyalPavilion/Pages/home.aspx.
That makes sense.
I have looked at his Army record on Find my Past.
Discharged due to disability.
He was at the Brighton Barracks.
He was in the 10th Royal Hussars 17 OCT 1793 to 5 FEB 1822.
Per this children christenings he left Brighton between 1824 and 1827 and went to New Windsor, Berkshire.
Fairly sure this is him in 1841
1841 census
New Windsor Berkshire
Saml TUCKWELL 61 ba 1780 Grocer
Mary TUCKWELL 56 ba 1785
Eliza TUCKWELL 36 ba 1805
Ellen TUCKWELL 16 ba 1825
Sarah WESTON 9 ba 1832
Richard COULTER 2 ba 1839
Strange there is no Army record for his son Samuel TUCKWELL ba 1810 on FindMyPast. Just trying to work out how long son Samuel ba 1810 served in the army and where he was on the 1861 census with child Blanche Mary Philomena TUCKWELL born c 1860 Dist Lambeth and what happened to wife Mary Ann MARCH/MARSH
Leonie
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A number of pieces of the 1861 census are missing, including part of Leeds where I suspect the middle Samuel may have been living with Mary Ann and Blanche at that time.
In September 1860 he judged a band contest in nearby Wetherby ("Mr S Tuckwell late band master 5th Dragoon Guards"), and on 1 April 1861 there was a performance of Haydn's Creation at the Music Hall, Sheffield featuring "Mr Tuckwell of Leeds" on clarionet.
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MR TUCKWELL, late Band Master of Her Majesty's Fifth Dragoon Guards, begs to inform the Musical public of Leeds that he is OPEN to ENGAGEMENTS for TEACHING RIFLE or other BANDS, Pianoforte &c. 50 Crimble-Street, Camp Road, Leeds
Leeds Mercury, 16 October 1860
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I am Blanche Mary Philomena Allan nee Tuckwell's great grandson. I fell on this Rootschat subject and have some information of her generations and back to her dad Samuel who was Private Bandmaster to the King. "Mr Samuel Tuckwell, who was private bandmaster to H.M. George IV" Williamstown Chronicle (Vic. : 1856 - 1954) Saturday 23 July 1904.
Blanche's uncle Rev George Tuckwell was a priest at Redfern St Vincents de Paul and was priest in Pau, France. He converted from Anglican to Catholic. I have no siblings with Blanche.
Not sure of your relationship to Tuckwell? Sophia? India?
Cheers
Keith
... in Melbourne, Australia