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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: patvp1 on Monday 17 March 14 05:27 GMT (UK)
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Have posted before on this subject but am hoping by doing a general search on the Common Room I may have a little more success.
Bernard Rily/Reilly/O'Riley etc etc was born (according to 41/51/61 census) in Ireland in 1791 (or between 1791 & 1796) He died 27 May 1868 Ardsley West Yorkshire Apt qtr Vol9C Page 92. His wife Mary ? also born Ireland between 1798 & 1801 died Oct qtr Vol 9C Page 32 buried at Ardsley.
Their children were - Caroline 1826, Ellen 1826, James 1829, Mary Ann 1832, Margaret 1835, John 1837, Michael 1839. I do have all BMD's for the children ;D
I have tried every which way to find a birth for him, anf wondered if a copy of the death cert would give me his parents names, although I very much doubt it) Various other trees on Ancestry have him born in Limerick/Meath and various other places in Ireland, they also have his wife down as Mary Bowen ?? but, as usual, nothing to back this theory up ??? I am half way through checking all Irish birth records (of which there are about 8000, and so far no luck) but will continue ::)
This, of course, may be a lost cause, but am at my wits end....by the way his profession was Flac Weaver.
Can anyone help with this quandary. Thanks so much
Regards Patvp
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First thing that comes to mind is that if young Michael was born (1839) UK, then doesn't his birth cert show his mother's maiden name?
Where was the family in the 1841 & 1851census?
When did Mary, Henry's wife, die?
Do you know when they left Ireland and came to UK?
Sorry - too many questions and no answers ::)
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Death certificates will not show parent's names I'm afraid.
Following up Di's suggestion - looking at places of birth of their children should give you an indication when the family came to England if some of the children were born in Ireland and some in England?
On the censuses do they just say place of birth is "Ireland" with no place or county names? Often a bit of a hint about place of birth is given in English censuses after 1841. :-\
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Let's get some facts on the table!
1851 census: Class: HO107; Piece: 2332; Folio: 735; Page: 15
Ardsley, Yorkshire
Riley, Bernard Head M 60 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Ireland
Riley, Mary Wife F 52 Ireland
Riley, James Son M 23 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Worsbrough, Yorkshire
Riley, Michael Son M 12 b Barnsley, Yorkshire
Riley, Margaret Daughter F 17 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Barnsley
Walton, Sarah Granddaughter F 6 Scholar b Barnsley
Eaton, John Lodger M 45 Weaver of Linen Cloth b York
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And, 1841 census:
Class: HO107; Piece: 1325; Book: 5; Folio: 4; Page: 1
Dawson Walk, Barnsley, Yorkshire
Riley, Bernard M 45 Weaver Ireland
Riley, Mary F 40 Ireland
Riley, Mary F 10
Riley, Catherine F 15
Riley, Ellen F 15
Riley, James M 15
Riley, Margaret f 6
Riley, John M 4
Riley, Michael M 2 All children born in county
And, don't forget that, on the 1841 census, adult ages were (usually) rounded down to a multiple of 5 years.
So, Catherine, Ellen and James were all aged between 15 and 19! ;D
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Going back to your original posting,this is what you'll find on an English or Welsh death cert.
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/deaths.htm
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Looks as tho' Bernard will forever remain an enigma ??? have trawled through so many files and have come up with zilch ::) Thank you everyone for your help...back to the drawing board ;D
Regards Patvp
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Hello,Have you considered commissioning a professional Genealogist to help you out? For short term or one off searches it might be just the thing. Make sure he /she is a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. WWW.apgi.ie
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The only birth of a Michael Riley I can see is this one. If that is the right one it would give mother's maiden name.
RILEY, Michael
Sheffield Yorkshire
1840 Apr-May-Jun
Volume 22 Page 625
Added: Sorry, not him as according to FamilySearch his parents were Michael Riley and Mary Brady
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According to the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
the Michael RILEY born in Sheffield was the son of a Michael RILEY and Mary BRADY.
Born 15 Jun 1840
Bap. 21 Jun 1840
Norfolk Row Catholic, Sheffield.
Jebber
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Hello,Have you considered commissioning a professional Genealogist to help you out? For short term or one off searches it might be just the thing. Make sure he /she is a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. WWW.apgi.ie
A professional genealogist would be expensive and most people find that Rootschatters are as effective and cost nothing - apart from time on the part of Rootschatters.
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The 1861 census has Bernard and Mary born Galloway Ireland
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Looks as tho' Bernard will forever remain an enigma ??? have trawled through so many files and have come up with zilch ::) Thank you everyone for your help...back to the drawing board ;D
Regards Patvp
1861 has him born Galway. Other censuses just show Ireland.
Have you got any child's birth certificate to show Mary's maiden name? You say you have all BMDs for the children but refer to her as Mary?
This may help although the dates you are after are very early for Irish records and Riley is not uncommon.
This is just an example.
http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie. the Tithe Applotment books show Bowen in Donaghpatrick Parish. In the same parish, the name Ryly occurs.
This may have no significance at all but if you haven't looked at the children's birth records, I can't see how you can make any progress.
Regards
Heywood
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The 1861 census has Bernard and Mary born Galloway Ireland
I have interpreted this as Galway for the time being - and my post took so long to compose that I missed yours - sorry!
http://www.failteromhat.com/flax/galway.php. Shows Reily and Bowen names as Flax growers
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Let's get some facts on the table!
1851 census: Class: HO107; Piece: 2332; Folio: 735; Page: 15
Ardsley, Yorkshire
Riley, Bernard Head M 60 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Ireland
Riley, Mary Wife F 52 Ireland
Riley, James Son M 23 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Worsbrough, Yorkshire
Riley, Michael Son M 12 b Barnsley, Yorkshire
Riley, Margaret Daughter F 17 Weaver of Linen Cloth b Barnsley
Walton, Sarah Granddaughter F 6 Scholar b Barnsley
Eaton, John Lodger M 45 Weaver of Linen Cloth b York
I think Worsbrough could be a clue to the origins of your ancestors on two accounts. As your family are from Ireland I suspect they could have been catholics and there was a Catholic church in Worsbrough and also in Barnsley where they removed to. I'm not a catholic but I thought their old Latin records made a note of parents and proposers of brides and grooms.
If you look at the large landowner in that district it was the Wentworth family = The Earl Fitzwilliam succeeded to the Wentworth estates in England and Ireland.
It was quite usual for landowners who wanted to set up a new business to ask their agents to move skilled workers from one place to another. Most large estates keep records and with a bit of luck the Wentworth archivist might have a record of where the skilled Irish flax workers originally lived.
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Hello,Have you considered commissioning a professional Genealogist to help you out? For short term or one off searches it might be just the thing. Make sure he /she is a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. WWW.apgi.ie
You are not a professional genealologist by any chance are you Markova21? ;)
Agree with Lizzie that rootschatters do just as good a job as the pros at no cost. I also know of several instances of profesional genealogists even requesting help here on rootschat.
Pat - do you have any of the children's birth certificates?
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Freebmd has:
Michael Rielly - Ecclesfield 22-157 Sep 1839 Qtr
Barnsley was in Ecclesfield Reg Dist at the time
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Is any of this any help to you patvp? It would be good to hear your views. You seem to have been back on Rootschat so hopefully have seen our efforts.
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Hello,Have you considered commissioning a professional Genealogist to help you out? For short term or one off searches it might be just the thing. Make sure he /she is a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists. WWW.apgi.ie
You are not a professional genealologist by any chance are you Markova21? ;)
Agree with Lizzie that rootschatters do just as good a job as the pros at no cost. I also know of several instances of profesional genealogists even requesting help here on rootschat.
Pat - do you have any of the children's birth certificates?
No I am not a Professional Genealogist. It just seems to me that if someone had hit a brick wall why they wouldn`t get a bit of help. I`ve looked and there are people who don`t charge that much.
Freebmd has:
Michael Rielly - Ecclesfield 22-157 Sep 1839 Qtr
Barnsley was in Ecclesfield Reg Dist at the time
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Hi everyone - thankyou for all the advice, this is the first time I have been ablr to reply..am having problems with Rootschat..cannot log on as the page FREEZES think it may have something to do with the fact I am still using windows xp and ie..will have to get back to you hopefully
Regards Patvp
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No I am not a Professional Genealogist. It just seems to me that if someone had hit a brick wall why they wouldn`t get a bit of help. I`ve looked and there are people who don`t charge that much.
I agree, however once you have been around RootsChat longer and read some of the threads, you will see that there are some extremely knowledgeable people on here and I would go as far to say that, if between them they can't find the information, then it probably isn't there to be found.
Welcome to RootsChat.
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Freebmd has:
Michael Rielly - Ecclesfield 22-157 Sep 1839 Qtr
Barnsley was in Ecclesfield Reg Dist at the time
Pat You have to get this birth certificate to give Mary's maiden name.
Do you know how to order it from the GRO?
Once you have Mary's maiden name it at least gives you more information to look for their marriage. That isn't going to be easy but at least with Mary's surname you have something to go on.
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Yeh ;D looks as tho I am back (I hope) have been having all sorts of trouble trying to sort things out with my computer....just give me a little time so I can assimilate info and will hopefully get back to you.
Sll the best and thanks ;D
Patvp
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Hi All - And thank you for your patience, have just re-read all the information as this has been on my back burner for a while. What I have realized is that I can find no records of births for any of the children of Bernard and Mary (pls discount the name Bowen for Mary, this has appeared on other trees and cannot be substantiated) It is possible that they did not bother to register the births of any of the children ?? all the info that I have came from the Cencus's (Censi- lol)
Will do as suggested and see if I can find any info on Catholic church records at Worsborough and Barnsley and will also check Wentworth Family Archives...am keeping my fingers crossed.
Regards Patvp
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Hi PatV, Bernard and Mary Riley are also my ancestors, I see there is a Michael Rielly born 1839, I am applying for the Birth cert, Dist: Ecclesfield, Vol: 22 Page: 157, I am hoping it will show Mary's maiden name and also Michael's Father, and possibly the address. I saw that someone put on here that Mary's maiden name was Watkin, but Birth cert might confirm.
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Hi PatV, Bernard and Mary Riley are also my ancestors, I see there is a Michael Rielly born 1839, I am applying for the Birth cert, Dist: Ecclesfield, Vol: 22 Page: 157, I am hoping it will show Mary's maiden name and also Michael's Father, and possibly the address. I saw that someone put on here that Mary's maiden name was Watkin, but Birth cert might confirm.
Mother's maiden name listed as Watkin on birth certificate-
RIELLY, MICHAEL WATKIN
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in ECCLESFIELD Volume 22 Page 157
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Thank you, yes, I saw someone said mother's maiden name was Watkin previously, does father's name show on the B cert? I think this almost proves that there is no connection with Bowen/Bowan and the Paletines that Ancestry keep mentioning. :) Thanks again, Carole
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The mother's maiden name can now be searched on GRO site but full details should be listed on birth certificate.
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Thank you Aghadowey, I didn't know that births on GRO site before 1911 showed mother's maiden name, I have never seen them. That is amazing!
Carole
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Forgot to post the site-
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Oh Wow! I didn't know you could do that! Of course that is the same place that I ordered the cert from, but I had no idea that you could look up the M's maiden name there also. Thank you aghadowey, you have taught me something important! :D Best regards, Carole
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Thank you so much aghadowey, i received the b cert, proves that Bernard (AKA Bryan AKA O'Brien) & Mary Riley / Rielly nee Watkin were the parents of Michael Riley Rielly, the address of the 1839 birth cert and the address of the family's entry in the 1841 census are the same, Dawson Wall, Barnsley. Thank you so much for helping me find how to find the maiden name without actually buying the certificate, but I did just want to confirm, in case it had been someone completely different. I am so grateful. :D