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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: oze on Wednesday 12 March 14 22:24 GMT (UK)

Title: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Wednesday 12 March 14 22:24 GMT (UK)
I am looking for information about Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens who lived at Kurilpa, Oxley, Queensland from the last quarter of 1921 until between 1926 and 1930. He married Laura Summers in Dec 1921 and they had a son in 1923 named Harry Edward William de Gratte Maskens who married Betty Elizabeth Gregg in the 1952. I have the information found on ancestry websites about Harry Edward and Laura de Gratte Maskens location taken from the electoral roles in 1925. What I cannot find is any record of him on passenger lists travelling between England and Australia. I was wondering if anyone would have information such as documents or family stories which record who his parents were, his age, etc. while he was living in Australia. I am trying to match him with  someone who I think is the same person and was living in England before and after the time Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens was living in Queensland.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 22:55 GMT (UK)
Some further Electoral roll finding-s

1930
De MASKENS, Laura. HD
Tweed Heads

1954
De MASKENS, Harry Edward Gratta.
83 Wardell St. Ashgrove,. Foreman
No others of the surname

1954
De MASKENS, Harry Edward William
8 Castle Hill St, Holland Park
De MASKENS, Kathleen Elizabeth, clerk/typiste
same address


Sue

Adding.  Service record indexing of interest.

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=285337
 

Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:00 GMT (UK)
A death which is probably a bit of a wildcard ::)

Yr 1958   REG  B24435   Laura SCOTT
Father   Henry SUMMERS
Mother   Miriam CARLAND  late HALTGREEN

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:05 GMT (UK)
The death of Kathleen (Betty)

Yr 1974  Reg 48037 Kathleen Elizabeth de MASKENS
Father John Alban GREGG
Mother  Agnes Kathleen BEIRNE

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:14 GMT (UK)
Birth of the Laura who died as Laura SCOTT

Yr 1900 Reg  C2056 Laura SUMMERS
Father Henry
Mother Miriam CARLAND

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:21 GMT (UK)
Some mentions in trove

  Engagement and wedding of Harry and Betty
   1952 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/cite/2035092/50296349
    1953 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article51084866

  Insulted as returned soldier
  1945   http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article106127171

regards,
   Ros
   
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:30 GMT (UK)
Ryerson indexing for the funeral  of Harry jnr

Courier Mail (Brisbane)
de MASKENS Harry Edward William
27OCT2000 Funeral
late of Caloundra

Sue 
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:33 GMT (UK)
Again speculating but.... ;D
Ryerson Indexing for the death of Laura (nee Summers)

Sydney Morning Herald 08MAR1958
SCOTT Laura 25FEB1958          
at Brisbane, late of Ashgrove

Sue
      
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Aussie1947 on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:48 GMT (UK)
Hi,

In the Courier Mail 9th September 1927 there was a mention of a De Maskins amongst many at Methodist Church gathering on 7th Sept 1927 at Tweed Heads to raise money for the Church Hall.

Gerry
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 12 March 14 23:50 GMT (UK)
You're right Sue  :)

SMH 8 March 1958
SCOTT Laura February 25,1958 at Brisbane of 83 Wardel St Ashgrove, beloved wife of Philip and mother of Harry de Maskens.  Privately cremated at Mt Thompson Crematorium on February 27, 1958

Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Aussie1947 on Thursday 13 March 14 01:02 GMT (UK)

Miriam Summers the wife of Harry Summers died at Tweed Heads in 1935.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36747867?searchTerm=

Gerry
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: rosball on Thursday 13 March 14 01:37 GMT (UK)
Possibly a descendant?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yf6/

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 March 14 04:47 GMT (UK)
http://austcemindex.com/index.php?surname=De%20maskens&cemname=Tweed%20Heads%20Old%20General

Her headstone is interesting in that it uses her first married name.
Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 March 14 06:41 GMT (UK)
A couple more Electoral Roll entries for Laura

1949
Kype-wa, Glenlyon Dve, Ashgrove
SCOTT, Laura, HD
SCOTT Phillip, Supervisor

1954
83 Wardell St, Ashgrove
SCOTT Laura, HD
SCOTT, Philip, Supervisor


Sue

 
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Thursday 13 March 14 09:00 GMT (UK)
Thank you sparrett, rosball and Aussie1947 for this information. I am looking through it now. oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: rosball on Thursday 13 March 14 09:19 GMT (UK)
IF this online tree is correct then there are 3 children to Betty and Harry (including one who could be the descendant mentioned above)
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/u/s/Dianne-M-Russ/ODT5-0001.html

cheers,
  Ros
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 March 14 10:17 GMT (UK)
oze,

Would I be correct in thinking your inquiry is trying to clearly identify the man in this English marriage?


Marriages Mar 1936   

Chubb  Lilian M     
To
De Maskens  Harry E  at  Paddington  1a /09

The appearance on the 1954 E. Roll of Harry Edward Gratte De MASKENS at the Wardell St address does not mean it is necessarily the senior man, husband of Laura. After all, their names were very similar

The son Harry Edward William Gratte de MASKENS may have failed to alter his  original address     before registering at his new one with his wife.   

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Thursday 13 March 14 22:35 GMT (UK)
To Sparrett,
Yes, I am trying to establish if the Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens who married Laura Summers  is the same person as a Harry Maskens from England. A family rumour was that he, Harry Maskens, had travelled to Australia, had a family there, returned to England alone then married (probably Lilian Chubb was the wife). Previously, in 1916, Harry Maskens married Lilian Warby. I know that Harry Maskens was in England in the mid-1940’s. I have looked for his arrival and departure from Australia on passenger lists. In 1930 Laura and Harry Edward William appear to be living on their own. I cannot find Harry Maskens on passenger lists but he could have travelled under a variety of name combinations, including Harry D G Maskens, Harry Gratte Maskens, etc. or under his step-father’s surname Edwards. I cannot find a record of divorce for him in either England or Australia.
I am also interested in the information which has been sent to me about Harry's family in Australia and whether his son Harry Edward William de Gratte Maskens had children.
oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 March 14 23:00 GMT (UK)
Possibly if you enter the names shown on the family tree (linked by rosball) into your search engine, you may be helped to make contact with living descendants of your people.

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Friday 14 March 14 02:49 GMT (UK)
Quote
in 1916, Harry Maskens married Lilian Warby.

Births Sep 1917   
MASKENS    Eileen G    Warby    Southwark    1d/114
    
Births Dec 1921 
MASKENS Joan M    Warby    Marylebone 1a/768

Quote
He married Laura Summers in Dec 1921

Laura's second marriage in NSW

8768/1931    
SCOTT    Philip O B    
DE MASKENS Laura      
District Petersham

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: jorose on Friday 14 March 14 09:07 GMT (UK)
I think it would be worth having a look at his RAF record:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8204544  (downloadable)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C12397658 (not downloadable)

May give you some idea of what he was up to and where in the years leading up to his second marriage.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Saturday 15 March 14 04:04 GMT (UK)
Sue, I did get in contact with a person (linked by rosball) who kindly replied and although they could not help me I did find out a few things about Harry's son that I did not know. I have seen  some public family trees on Ancestry that include Harry Maskins (Sr.) and when I re-join Ancestry I will try to contact the owners of the trees.

Cando, it seems that Harry and Lilian’s second daughter Joan was born close to the time when Harry Edward De Gratte Maskens married in Dec 1921. It is surprising but still possible that the two Harry’s are the same person. Because of this information about Harry and Lilian’s daughters my (soon-to-be 85 year old mother) has found out for the first time who she was named after.

Jorose I was wondering about Harry’s contribution to the war and this pinpoints his location in 1918.

Thank you for all of this helpful information.

oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Saturday 15 March 14 04:38 GMT (UK)
Quote
Cando, it seems that Harry and Lilian’s second daughter Joan was born close to the time when Harry Edward De Gratte Maskens married in Dec 1921. It is surprising but still possible that the two Harry’s are the same person. Because of this information about Harry and Lilian’s daughters my (soon-to-be 85 year old mother) has found out for the first time who she was named after.

The Queensland 1921 marriage certificate will list Harry's age, place of birth, parents' names, mother's maiden name and father's occupation.  You can search and purchase online.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m

Cheers  :)
Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 15 March 14 04:58 GMT (UK)
The marriage certificate will also show Harry's marital status at the time of this marriage  ;D :-\
Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Saturday 15 March 14 06:10 GMT (UK)
I'm a bit confused here

Quote
Because of this information about Harry and Lilian’s daughters my (soon-to-be 85 year old mother) has found out for the first time who she was named after.
Oze

Your mother who is soon to celebrate her 85th birthdays was born c1929 in the UK or Aus?

Is this marriage correct then?

Quote
Marriages Mar 1936   
Chubb  Lilian M     
To
De Maskens  Harry E  at  Paddington  1a /09
Sue

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Saturday 15 March 14 09:13 GMT (UK)
Cando and Sue,

Thank you again for your replies. I didn’t know that there was so much information given on Australian marriage certificates so ordering one sounds like a good idea. I hope Harry was truthful when it was filled in.

My mother was born in England. Harry Maskens was born in London in 1894, the same year that his father died. Harry’s mother (my great-grandmother) married my great-grandfather in 1903. My grandmother was born a few years later. The family rumour is that my great-grandmother suspected that Harry had a family in Australia but returned to England without them. My mother asked me if I could find evidence that he had lived in Australia. My mother knew that Harry had also married in England and had two daughters but thought that he married when he returned from Australia. She didn’t know the daughters names and, although the daughters are not much older than she is, one of them has her name. It looks like Harry married three times so the information about his marriage to Lilian Chubb in 1936 looks correct. My mother met Harry at least on one occasion with family in London just after WWII finished. I am trying to determine whether the Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens who married Laura Summers in Queensland in 1921 is our Harry Maskens from London. Harry’s name is recorded many different ways on English records. All of the information about his life in Australia is new to us.

oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 15 March 14 22:36 GMT (UK)
 I didn’t know that there was so much information given on Australian marriage certificates so ordering one sounds like a good idea. I hope Harry was truthful when it was filled in.


 oze

Adding to Cando's suggestion there about the certificate.

This link, already given to you,describes how to acquire the certificate.  The good news is there is a not an ordering process.
You simply pay online (about $20 I think), and then download the image to your computer immediately.

https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=births

And just for your interest this is what is expected to show on a QLD marriage certificate in case you do not know.

Date
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Fathers' names
Fathers' occupations
Groom's mothers name
Bride's mothers name


Sue


 


Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Saturday 15 March 14 22:43 GMT (UK)
Sadly not all certificates have been digitised. An image of the 1921 Marriage Certificate is unavailable.  Your only option is to order a certificate for $28 which will be mailed.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Saturday 15 March 14 22:50 GMT (UK)
Perhaps you have the following, if so you can ignore

MASKENS, Harry Edward Gratte, 22, bachelor, Marconi Operator, of 8 Yalding Road, Bermondsey, son of Harry Edward Gratte MASKENS, decd, a Sketch Artiste, married 22 Dec 1916 at the Registry Office, St Olave, to Lilian WARBY, 21, spinster, a Music Hall Artiste of 6 Catlin Street, Bermondsey, dau of William WARMBY a railway clerk.

I think I now understand......your grandmother is Doris Adeline EDWARDS who is a half sister to Harry Edward Gratte MASKENS.

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 15 March 14 23:59 GMT (UK)
Sadly not all certificates have been digitised. An image of the 1921 Marriage Certificate is unavailable.  Your only option is to order a certificate for $28 which will be mailed.

Cheers
Cando

I did not know this. ???
How strange.  Wonder why.  Is  the digitising work in progress?

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Sunday 16 March 14 00:46 GMT (UK)
Cando and Sue,

It does look like the family rumour was correct. Harry, my grandmother Doris’s half brother, is the same person who married Laura Summers. I may just order that marriage certificate one day anyway and send it to my mother. It also looks like Harry married three times.

Harry E G Maskens marries Lilian Warby, Dec 22, 1916, Greater London.
Harry Edward De Maskens marries Laura Summers, Dec 31, 1921, Australia.
Harry E De Maskens marries Lilian Chubb, Mar, 1936, Paddington.

There are so many questions as to what he was doing. Did he abandon Laura and his son in Queensland? Did Laura find out that he was married and send him away. She marries again in 1931.

Laura De Maskens
Philip O B Scott
1931
New South Wales
Petersham, New South Wales

Did Harry Edward William know anything about his father Harry? Do Harry Sr’s descendants know anything about him or about his life in England.
I have sent a request to another person through Mundia who has him on their family tree. I hope they see it and reply.
Thank you for your help.

Oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 00:53 GMT (UK)
So--Just getting this straight in my head ::)

Doris Adeline , your grandmother, named her daughter after her half brother's daughter from his first marriage. (I can see her name on the records) ;D

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 00:59 GMT (UK)
Just caught your last post ;D

I hope you will not mind my saying so, but I would suggest the purchase of the certificate is a priority, rather than a "some day option" ;D

It may turn out to be the piece of documentary evidence upon which proper research is based.

Likliehoods are not quite enough really.

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 01:16 GMT (UK)
http://austcemindex.com/index.php?surname=De%20maskens&cemname=Tweed%20Heads%20Old%20General

Her headstone is interesting in that it uses her first married name.
Sue

I mentioned the above previously.

Laura died in 1958 and I cannot help wondering whether , although she was married to Philip SCOTT, Laura understood the marriage to MASKENS was still in place as Harry E.  MASKENS seems not have died until 1967 in England. Was she trying to say this through her headstone?


Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jennaya on Sunday 16 March 14 02:28 GMT (UK)
The headstone would have been organised by her son. Sometimes children see the marriage that produced them as more important than any subsequent ones.

What name was her death certificate in?

Regards
jennaya
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Sunday 16 March 14 02:34 GMT (UK)
The headstone would have been organised by her son. Sometimes children see the marriage that produced them as more important than any subsequent ones.

What name was her death certificate in?

Regards
jennaya

Already posted by Sue reply#2.

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 02:53 GMT (UK)
The headstone would have been organised by her son. Sometimes children see the marriage that produced them as more important than any subsequent ones.

What name was her death certificate in?

Regards
jennaya

I am not as certain as you that the son was the one to organise the headstone ;D

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: majm on Sunday 16 March 14 03:00 GMT (UK)
Ros posted this  :)

You're right Sue  :)

SMH 8 March 1958
SCOTT Laura February 25,1958 at Brisbane of 83 Wardel St Ashgrove, beloved wife of Philip and mother of Harry de Maskens.  Privately cremated at Mt Thompson Crematorium on February 27, 1958

Anyone can pay for a headstone, but it is usually organised by the Executor/trix of the deceased estate, and often funded as part of the funeral expenses. 

Adding .... 

I think that Mt Thompson Crematorium and Tweed Heads Old General are two different locations  :)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 03:01 GMT (UK)
For the records

Death

Year 1982 Reg 6946 Philip Oscar Bewley SCOTT
Father  George Bewley
Mother  Mary SLATER

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: majm on Sunday 16 March 14 03:08 GMT (UK)
I have just added a note to my earlier post.

JM
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: rosball on Sunday 16 March 14 03:19 GMT (UK)
The head stone just says Laura  ... No surname.  Perhaps it was an assumption of whoever indexed the gravestones since it says she was mother of Harry and it is adjacent to headstone for Harry de Maskens son of Laura.   ?

Regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Sunday 16 March 14 03:19 GMT (UK)
Is it possible that Laura's cremated remains were placed at Tweed Heads or she is simply memorialised on her son's grave?

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cando on Sunday 16 March 14 03:22 GMT (UK)
They are both memorialised at the same grave location and may I suggest it is possibly the transcriber of the MI that has assumed Laura's surname is de MASKENS.

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 16 March 14 03:31 GMT (UK)
I agree. A bit of assumption  ::)
Sue
Quote from: cando
link=topic=680572.msg5254295#msg5254295 date=1394940131
They are both memorialised at the same grave location and may I suggest it is possibly the transcriber of the MI that has assumed Laura's surname is de MASKENS.

Cando
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jennaya on Sunday 16 March 14 06:14 GMT (UK)
I agree too, that this is probably the case
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Sunday 16 March 14 21:31 GMT (UK)
Thank you cando, Sue, Jennaya, majm and rosbal for your replies.

oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: raness on Sunday 04 May 14 10:27 BST (UK)
Hi Oze,

My name is Rosemary Ness and I am the eldest daughter of Harry Edward William de Maskens. Betty was my mother and  I have two siblings Peter and Laura

Regards
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Monday 05 May 14 21:30 BST (UK)
Hi Rosemary,
I was hoping to see some communication this morning.
Fingers crossed someone says hello soon.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Monday 05 May 14 23:45 BST (UK)
Hi Rosemary and Laura,
I just viewed your message. Thank you for contacting me. I will quickly send this message and then I will send a personal message with more information through to you. We share a common great-grandmother named Adelina Mary Ward. My mother is 85 years old and has been asking me to look for a record of your grandfather (she know his name as Harry Maskens) in Australia and on the passenger lists. I could not find him so asked for help on Rootschat. I have many posts on the site which you might like to read. I have been doing ancestry research since 2011 and have found out a lot of information which I would be happy to share with you, that is if you don't know about it already.
Oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 06 May 14 00:22 BST (UK)
Neither Lauraura nor  raness will receive or be able to send Personal Messages until they have posted 3 times on this open board.

Please be advised that names of your living siblings should be removed for privacy and security reasons.

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Tuesday 06 May 14 03:18 BST (UK)
Hi Oze
I am Laura Miriam.
Are you our relative then? My sister Rosemary found this site the other day & it's great for us to finally fill some blanks.  We honestly know nothing about our grandfather Harry?
I still carry the name de Maskens, as does my brother.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Tuesday 06 May 14 03:58 BST (UK)
DELETED
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Tuesday 06 May 14 05:04 BST (UK)
Hi Oze
I did note that I needed to send 3 messages prior to receiving any personal messages, so hopefully this will suffice.
Regards
Laura
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Tuesday 06 May 14 05:30 BST (UK)
DELETED
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Tuesday 06 May 14 05:31 BST (UK)
DELETED
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Tuesday 06 May 14 06:09 BST (UK)
DELETED
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Tuesday 01 March 16 22:49 GMT (UK)
My Grandmother was Lilian Warby who married Harry Gratte Maskens . My Mum was Eileen Gratte Maskens born 1916  & I have only recently found another daughter Joan  Maskens born in 1921
 . All in England .
I do hope you pick up this post as I am on Ancestry only since January 2016 & I was recommended to this site by Another of the Gratte Maskens family in Australia .
  Would be VERY grateful for a response Thanks Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Tuesday 01 March 16 23:22 GMT (UK)
Hi
My name is Laura de Maskens, I am Harry's daughter. I have a brother Peter & Sister Rosemary.  We live in Australia, our Dad died in the year 2000.
Nice to say hi Jackie.
At the moment I am in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia but will be back in Australia next Thu March 10.😃
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Wednesday 02 March 16 06:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,
I am glad that you sent this post. I am also in Australia. You and I share the same great-grandmother Adelina Ward (born 1870 Dublin). Her first marriage was to Henry de Gratte Maskens. They lived in London and had three children. The first one Henry was born in1890 and died aged 1, Helena Agnes(Nellie) was born 1891 and then Harry was born 1894 (your grand-father). Henry died of tuberculosis before Harry was born. Adelina called herself Adeline in England. After Henry's death she moved in with her parents Philip and Charlotte Ward (nee Lodge) also in London. Philip was Irish and Charlotte was English. Adeline then married Frederick George Edwards, my great-grandfather, and they had three children. I am descended from their daughter Doris Adeline. My mother is 87 years old and she remembers Adeline, Nellie, Harry as well as Frederick George, Doris's older brother. I am also in touch with Frederick's grand-daughter. My mother and I were surprised to find that my mother's names are the same as your mother's sister Joan May. We would be very interested to hear what you know about Harry, Lilian and your mother. I look forward to your reply.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Wednesday 02 March 16 18:00 GMT (UK)
WOW 2 replays , That's fantastic THANKS SO MUCH , & NEXT DAY TOO.
Sadly I no nothing of my Grandmother Lilian Warby or Harry Gratte Maskens . When my mother was born , my granny asked he sister Elizabeth Warby to look after Mum so she could persue her career as a musical artist , basically she was a song & dancer . There is more to tell on that . G Aunt Elizabeth " Nanny " bought up my Mum single handed as well as my sister & myself . Again I never knew Harry either . So ANY help , photos you have, or ANYTHING at all I would much appricate.
   I have verbal history from Nanny who died a long while ago  . So please help
        Warmest Wishes to both Sincerely Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Wednesday 02 March 16 18:42 GMT (UK)
WOW 2 replays , That's fantastic THANKS SO MUCH , & NEXT DAY TOO.
Sadly I no nothing of my Grandmother Lilian Warby or Harry Gratte Maskens . When my mother was born , my granny asked he sister Elizabeth Warby to look after Mum so she could persue her career as a musical artist , basically she was a song & dancer . There is more to tell on that . G Aunt Elizabeth " Nanny " bought up my Mum single handed as well as my sister & myself . Again I never knew Harry either . So ANY help , photos you have, or ANYTHING at all I would much appricate.
   I have verbal history from Nanny who died a long while ago  . So please help
        Warmest Wishes to both Sincerely Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Wednesday 02 March 16 23:07 GMT (UK)
Please elaborate on the Singing& Dancing as I have always had an interest in performance arts myself.  I did standup comedy for a while & have studied Acting.
Many thanks
Laura de Maskens
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Thursday 03 March 16 00:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,
Harry’s full name was Henry Edward de Gratte Maskens although I don’t know that he ever used his full name. There is quite a lot of information online about the de Gratte Maskens ancestry and often there are different versions of this surname. It appears that the family came across to England from France but were originally from Belgium. At first they were picture framers and then printers. Adeline used only Maskens and the family knew Harry as Harry Maskens. It seems that he used de Maskens while he was in Australia. I have records of him living in Queensland (Brisbane area, I think Laura knows more about this) between December 1921 and 1925 but he may have stayed longer. I cannot find him entering or leaving Australia. He was back in England I think by 1933 but this is from memory only. My mother remembers meeting Harry and his sister Nellie just after WW2 ended. Although I do not have photos of Harry and Lilian I do have a photo of his mother Adeline which I am happy to send along. From some information I have Harry was said to be 5 ft 10 inches tall, had brown hair and grey eyes. Harry and Lillian married in St. Olave on December 22, 1916. Harry was 22 and a marconi operator. I have here that Harry’s father was a sketch artist. Lillian Warby was 21 and she was a music hall artiste. Her father was William Warby and he was a railway clerk. Harry and Lilian lived on the same street as Adeline in 1918. Was your mother Eileen Grathe born August 30, 1917? I have more information and I would be interested to hear about your mum and your Nanny’s verbal history as well.
Its great to be in touch.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Thursday 03 March 16 21:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie and Laura,
Would you like to switch to personal messaging. I'm not sure how it works three way but we can figure it out. Jackie, you might have to send one more message to reach the minimum of three.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Thursday 03 March 16 21:23 GMT (UK)
Hi , If you prefer personal messages that's fine by me , have some thoughts about Lilian Warby . She DEFINATLY married Harry , it's all on Ancestry , but I don't know how to send it to you .
      Warmest Wishes Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Thursday 03 March 16 22:03 GMT (UK)
Hi again
Am on Holiday at present in Kuala Lumpur, am happy to try & message?
Hi Frances :)


Laura
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Thursday 03 March 16 23:29 GMT (UK)
Hi , Re  Joan Maskens , Have just been rummaging around her Birth Cert & marriage one to Dennis Seale ,  on Ancestry .  I don't know if you have the Marriage Cert or not but according to Andrews Card index it cites the father of Joan as Charles William Maskens ! Not Harry . Obviously this needs to be checked but it would then follow an odd train of thought . It's late in Uk but  it's on my tree if you can se it on Ancestry . Have not learned how to use it yet properly . I also found Charles William Maskens in the 1911 census aged 36 with his small son Charles Alfred Maskens aged 9 , but it did not give an address. All VERY odd . Can you help me on this please Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Lauraura on Friday 04 March 16 01:07 GMT (UK)
Oh my the plot thickens?  My Son Tyson just called his Son Alfred which I thought was the weirdest choice of names? How bizarre?
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Friday 04 March 16 01:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Laura,
I have sent through a three way personal message to you and Jackie. I hope you received it,
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: peb21 on Friday 04 March 16 01:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie and Laura.  I'm Pauline the other 2nd cousin, that Frances made reference to.  The Charles Maskens on the 1911 census is a Charles Russell Maskens not Charles William.  Address looks like 7 Major Rd. Bermondsey.
The info I have is that Harry deserted from the Army in 1918. After this his then known whereabouts are in Australia when he marries Laura S in 1921, the same year that Joan is born.   
I was told by an aunt that Harry married 4 times one using an alias, but as to date have found no proof.  This fourth marriage caused a big rift in my Granddad's family and my Nan refused to have anything more to do with him.  I was told he had a shop in Battersea, which would have been in the 1950's/60's. 

Pauline
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Friday 04 March 16 02:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Pauline,
I have sent out a personal message which now includes the four of us.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Friday 04 March 16 10:07 GMT (UK)
Sorry all I have no idea how to get to the personal messages . Can someone please explain ?
 
  As to Harry deserting from the army , that agrees with a tale from " Nanny ." My great aunt Elizabeth ,was Lillian ' s sister , & bought up my Mum Eileen GM , my sister , & myself . Nanny said that Harry did" run away from the army  " . He was called up & because he was tall he went to the Guards . She explained that this was not something that he could manage . To be fair , I don't think it was cowardice , the war was CARNAGE , of the worst kind . I have recently read quite a  bit about it as my local family history soc.  are doing an exhibition on the Somme & I am involved.
   In fact Lilian's brother George Frederick Warby was killed in 1917  leaving a wife & child , & there was another Warby relative who was also killed at roughly the same time as a young man in his 20's .
     I think unless you have researched WW 1 a bit you forget how dreadful the carnage was .
   16 million were thought to be killed throughout the war , not only France , Russia , Turkey, Africa, both north & south & even South America . Anyone who deserted was for the firing squad even young boys 14 upwards who should not have been there in the first place could & were shot for desertion .
          Please keep me posted. Sincerely Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Friday 04 March 16 10:13 GMT (UK)
Have just spotted the green icon that I need to press to do the personal message , but how do I send it to all of the 3 others please .? Kindly advise Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: cupoflife on Friday 04 March 16 10:21 GMT (UK)
This may help http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=484742.0
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Friday 04 March 16 20:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,
Click on the reply to all button.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Friday 04 March 16 20:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,
Click on the reply to all (a brown button) if you wish to reply to a personal message which has been sent from our group. If you click on the green button you are beginning a new personal message and you need to add in the people you wish to send the message to.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: SUEJANET on Thursday 14 July 16 09:21 BST (UK)
Im the daughter of Fred Edwards who was born in Bermondsey London.  His mother had originial been married to Harry Maskens
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Thursday 14 July 16 11:07 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie,
Click on the reply to all button.
Frances
Hi All ,
        Unless you have read the earlier post you wont know who I am , but to save you doing that My Grandfather was Harry ( Henry ) Edward Gratte Maskens my late Mum was his daughter  Eileen Gratte Maskens with Lillian Warby ( my Grandmother )I never met either of my grandparents because my mother sister & myself were bought up by my grandmothers sister Elizabeth Warby  who never married . My Mum was Harry's first child born in 1917 after his marriage in 1916 in England . His second child Joan May Maskens married  Denis Seale according to my research . I never knew about Joan this until earlier this year when I joined Ancestry in Jan 1916 .
             Frances & Pauline are much more knowledgeable on tracing than I am , but I think that Harry returned to UK in about 1937 & married again for a 4 th time . No idea if he divorced any of his wives , but he clearly was quite a charmer & if the photo I have ( I think its the right one !) very good looking . I have a new camera which I have been struggling with to get the photo on Ancestry or anywhere else for that matter. Lots of family matters & back problems have stopped me from posting of late but PLEASE do come back to me . Warmest Wishes to all  jackie 
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Thursday 14 July 16 21:59 BST (UK)
Hi SUEJANET,
My mother's mother was Doris Adeline Edwards, the sister of Frederick. My mother is 87 years of age.
Are you in England?

Hi Jackie.
Is it possible to scan the photo of Harry? You might be able to do it at the library free of charge. It is difficult to sit at a computer with back trouble.
oze
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: SUEJANET on Sunday 17 July 16 18:56 BST (UK)
Sorry for taking so long in coming back
Yes I know my dads sister was Dorothy and she lived I believe in
Dagenham Essex
I am in England in Beckenham Kent
Danielle my daughter is hoping to travel to Australia next year
How wonderful to be able to find lost relatives
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Sunday 17 July 16 21:04 BST (UK)
Hi Suejanet,
      WHAT a surprise , you only live in Beckenham . I live in West Wickham & Harry Edward Maskens was my Grandfather . Want to meet ?   Sincerely Jackie 
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Sunday 17 July 16 23:21 BST (UK)
Hi SUEJANET,
Yes, my grandmother lived at Springpond Rd., Dagenham and had three children who must be your first cousins. Doris, the eldest, stayed in Dagenham her whole life but is now deceased, next is my mum and the youngest Harry, who lives in Canada. It would be good if I could get my mum to send you a message but we are not living close to each other so I will see what I can do. Laura, like myself, is a great granddaughter of Adeline and lives in Australia. Perhaps she will join us again on Rootschat. Has Danielle decided which month she will visit Australia?
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: SUEJANET on Monday 18 July 16 09:27 BST (UK)
How bizzare is that.   Yes love to meet up
I believe your grandfather had a shop in Queenstown Road Battersea
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Jackie Lane on Monday 18 July 16 11:37 BST (UK)
  Hi Suejanet , Would LOVE to meet up . Have been told that Harry had a shop in Queenstown Rd , but I know nothing of all of that . All I have are a couple of photos & verbal knowledge from my Gt Aunt . Not sure how I go about contacting you but my email direct is jackie@djcarpets.freeserve.co.uk
        then perhaps we can exchange phone nos  Fantastic rellys I never knew I had  Love Jackie
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: SUEJANET on Monday 18 July 16 18:07 BST (UK)
Just saw your email I was told that he was using my fathers name his half brother
Frederick George Edwards.  My dad was born on 1 Oct 1902 or 1903.  I never meet him
but my mum always said that Harry Maskins left a wife and son in Australia and has come
back to England using your dads name.  It might solve some of the mystery but dont have any
evidence its true
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Tuesday 19 July 16 01:06 BST (UK)
Hi SUEJANET,
Frederick was born in 1903 and my grandmother Doris was born in 1906. Harry Maskens was born in 1894.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Wednesday 20 July 16 10:52 BST (UK)
Hi SUEJANET and Jackie,
I have found ancestry records of Harry living in Queensland, Australia from 1920 to 1925. He had married Laura Summers. They had a son. Harry used the surname de Maskens while in Australia. After this time I lose track of him for many years. I have searched the shipping records without finding him entering or leaving Australia but he was here so I assume that he used a different name. My mother was also told that Harry used Frederick's name when he was in England. I have found Harry using his own name on records in England after he left Australia. My Mum, her mother, her 'Uncle' John Edwards and Harry visited Harry's sister Nellie Putley while she was in hospital in London in 1945/46. I think that is the only time she remembers meeting Harry. She said that 'Uncle' John was very tall and that John and Harry seemed to get along well.
Frances
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Whazzo8 on Friday 03 June 22 03:17 BST (UK)
Hi Oze
I am new to this. I have been looking for info on Harry for some time and
I can fill in on one gaps.
The messages I have found are quite old so if you still need some info let me know.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Whazzo8 on Saturday 04 June 22 22:10 BST (UK)
Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens and Lillian Chubb were my parents.
I was born in 1946.
I am learning a lot about my father I was not aware of, but I have since his death learned more.
He always told me that he ran away from home when he was 14 as he did not get on with his step father, and got a job on a ship to Australia.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Whazzo8 on Friday 02 September 22 20:33 BST (UK)
If anyone looking for info about Harry Edward Gratte Maskens please answer me.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 03 September 22 00:53 BST (UK)
Whazzo, the person who started this thread has not been online here since 2017. However, they may get notification that a new post has been added to their thread.
If you get no response you could ( if you wish) try making contact through the personal message system on this forum.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: Whazzo8 on Saturday 03 September 22 02:51 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help, being new to this I have no idea how to send a personal message please let me know.
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 03 September 22 03:00 BST (UK)
Hi.
Send a Personal Message to someone
When you are logged in look to the left of the post window of that person where you see their user name and little avatar.
See  little icon shaped like a piece of paper.
Click on that and the right screen will open for you to send a message to them which is received by only them.

Sue
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Saturday 03 September 22 21:30 BST (UK)
Hi Wazzo8,
Today I received emails from Rootschat and read your messages. It has been quite a few years since I posted things but it would be good to be in touch.
Oze :)
Title: Re: Harry Edward de Gratte Maskens
Post by: oze on Monday 05 September 22 19:38 BST (UK)
Hi Wazzo8,
I have replied to your last message in Personal Messages.
Oze