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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: keith110639 on Tuesday 11 March 14 14:10 GMT (UK)
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My Gt GT Grandfather Matthew Southwell Vine's youngest sister married Michael Chatterton and one of her son's John Vine Chatterton B.1847 married in 1871 to Annie Parrett in London, UK after which it seems they emigrated to New Zealand. I would like to know if they had any children but do not have access to records here in the UK. Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi
NZ BDM's are online https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
These are the children
1874/19414 Chatterton Ernest John / Annie /John Vine
1875/12020 Chatterton Egbert William / Ann /John Vine
1878/4993 Chatterton Sidney James/ Anne /John Vine
1879/13485 Chatterton Walter Vine / Annie /John Vine
1885/16725 Chatterton Harold Henry / Annie /John Vine
1887/11155 Chatterton Stanley Edward / Annie /John Vine
1881/8469 Chatterton Louisa Tryphena/ Annie /John Visie
Cheers Janette
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Here is an obituary for one of their sons
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0yee/
Cheers Janette
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John Vine CHATTERTON had a long life - he died in 1926 aged 79 years.
Archives New Zealand (Wellington office) hold a Probate file for him.
~ Lu
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Can't immediately see when exactly he came to New Zealand, but NZ Passenger Lists (available free to view at the Family Search website), show J V CHATTERTON (bc 1846) returning to Wellington NZ from Sydney, Australia, on 4 November 1924 (at which time he would have been about 77 or 78 years of age.) ;)
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In 1924 he is on a passenger list from Sydney Australia to Wellington
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12647-9532-21?cc=1609792
Cheers Janette
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Hi keith110639
There is actually a CHATTERTON family tree (at the ancestry.com website) - although it appears somewhat strange as it doesn't have JV 's children listed. ???
~ Lu
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Hello again
According to the online CHATTERTON tree, (wife) "Annie made the journey to New Zealand as an assisted emigrant ... whilst John Vine is said to have worked his passage to NZ as an AB seaman".
~ Lu
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Hi
.... just needed to confirm something found on the online tree (e.g. Annie's arrival in Canterbury, NZ, per the ship "Dover Castle").
It appears that Annie emigrated using her maiden name. Fact is, that that surname is actually mis-transcribed on the index to (NZ) Immigrants at the Family Search website.
Here's the listing >
Annie PARRELL - aged 25 years - ex Devonsh. - occupation: Cook
The "Dover Castle" arrived at Canterbury (Port of Lyttelton) in 1872.
You can view on the Family Search site the scan of the passenger list ... which helpfully has recorded alongside of Annie PARRELL's name, that she was "married to John CHASSINGTON".
So obviously some errors with spellings of surnames. ;D But given that Annie's age at death > 75 in 1921 ... and the age recorded for Annie PARRELL in 1872, equate to a birthyear of circa 1846 > it would seem most likely that the lady on the "Dover Castle"' was the wife of John CHATTERTON.
~ Lu
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Here is a link to the Dover Castle's manifest it sailed on the 19th January 1872,maybe the passage was booked before they married in December 1871
Marriages Dec 1871
CHATTERTON John Vine London C. 1c 81
Parrett Annie London C. 1c 81
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12149-147407-69?cc=1609792&wc=M66Z-Q3N:119046201,119035002,119262401
Cheers Janette
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CHATTERTON marriages:
Ernest John, married Mary STOCKING, 1899. He died 1941 aged 66 years.
Egbert William, married Rebecca GOOD, 1904. He died 1939 aged 64 years.
Walter Vine, married Norah Sophia WILLIAMS, 1903. His death not found.
Harold Henry, married Sarah Mary Sophia EVANS, 1907. He died 1944 aged 59 years.
Louisa Tryphena, married Charles Gibson PATCHETT, 1907. She died 1945, aged 63 YEARS.
Minniehaha.
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Probate/will for Ernest John CHATTERTON (1941) held @ Wellington archives.
Probate/will for Egbert William CHATTERTON (1939), farmer, held @ Christchurch archives.
www.archway.archives.govt.nz
Minniehaha.
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Walter Vine CHATTERTON died on 3 September 1904 aged 25 years, the victim of Typhoid. :(
There are some items at PaperPast website referring to his death (and that of another young man) - although the surname CHATTERTON is mentioned, the newspapers seem to have got his Christian name initials rather mixed up. [One article says "E.W." ... another states death of "W.B. Chatterton". ]
He left two daughters - born 1903 and 1904.
NZ BDM shows his death as simply >
1904 - CHATTERTON - Walter
~ Lu
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Burial
Waimate Old Cemetery (Waimate) - Methodist Section
Walter Vine CHATTERTON
Aged 25 years
Died : 3 September 1904
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Just BTW ... a son born to Ernest John CHATTERTON in 1905 was also named Walter Vine (shown on index as "Vince") CHATTERTON (obviously in memory of Ernest's deceased brother).
The widow of Walter Vine CHATTERTON (d. 1904) (Norah Sophia), remarried in 1907 to a Walter Rich OWERS.
[She died in 1944 aged 66 years.]
The name "Vine" appears to have been handed down to a number of descendants (both male and female), of John V. CHATTERTON.
* Can even see the "Vine Chatterton" combination of names in Australian records - though haven't checked yet whether they belong to the New Zealand lot.
~ Lu
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Funeral notice for Walter Vine.........
"Timaru Herald' dated 5.9.1904.
Minniehaha.
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Children born to Harold Henry & Sarah Mary Sophia CHATTERTON:
1910, Ewart Vine.
1908, Alfred. 1908, Arthur. Consecutive numbers, twins??
1913, E* M*. [female, may still be living?]
Child born to Walter Vine & Norah Sophia CHATTERTON:
1904, Winnie Vine.
Minniehaha.
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There was also another daughter born to Walter Vine and Norah Sophia CHATTERTON ... 1903 - Doris Annie.
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Winnie Vine CHATTERTON married Albert James SHEAT, 1931.
Probate/will (1997) for Winnie Vine SHEAT, widow, Christchurch, @ Archives.
Minniehaha.
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Ewart Vine CHATTERTON died 1985. D.O.B. 10.2.1910.
Minniehaha.
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See reply #17........
Doris Annie CHATTERTON married William Norman WALKER, 1923.
[In the birth registration index her mother is recorded as Nora Sophie]
Her death? 1990, date of birth, 29.11.1903.
Minniehaha.
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Children of Ernest John CHATTERTON & Mary nee Stocking:
1905, Walter Vince.
1913, W* P* [Male, may still be living?]
1907, Gordon Arthur.
1909, Alfred Ernest.
1901, Ralph Leslie.
1902, Lionel John.
1899, Clyde Stanley.
Children found for Louisa Tryphena & Charles Gibson PATCHETT:
1911, Raymond Charles.
1908, Sydney David. [Mother's name shown only as Louisa].
One child found for Egbert William CHATTERTON & Rebecca nee GOOD.
1909, Irene Louisa.
[Birth index cuts off 100 years ago from today's date so there are possibly other children.]
Minniehaha.
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See reply #17........
Doris Annie CHATTERTON married William Norman WALKER, 1923.
[In the birth registration index her mother is recorded as Nora Sophie]
Minniehaha.
Hi keith110639
... should just explain that we need to allow for variations in spellings on our NZ BDM indexes. ;)
[e.g. Nora Sophie v. Norah (Nora) Sophia ... etc. ]
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Children of Ernest John CHATTERTON & Mary nee Stocking:
1905, Walter Vince.
Minniehaha.
... and above "Walter Vince CHATTERTON" is the Walter Vine CHATTERTON - see reply # 14.
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See reply # 21.........
Gordon Arthur died 1990, born 23.8.1907.
Ralph Leslie died 1962, aged 61 years.
Lionel John died 1967, aged 65 years.
Clyde Stanley died 1967, aged 67 years.
Minniehaha.
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Further to my post above..........
Clyde Stanley CHATTERTON married Eleanor Mary Selina BUNNY in 1928.
Eleanor Mary Selina died in 1983. Her d.o.b. recorded as 30.3.1900.
Minniehaha.
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Thank you all very much for all this information it is brilliant. John did go to sea with his uncle Joseph my Gt Gt Grandfathers younger brother and is in the UK 1861 census at the age of 16 as cabin boy so had experience at sea so that would give him the chance to go as a crew member. I have to go out now 08-00 here on a foggy morning but will look more at the links you give me later.
Kind regards to you all.
Keith
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Hello Keith,
The 'Ellesmere Guardian' has many mentions of E. J. CHATTERTON & Clyde CHATTERTON, often in the same article.
[From The "Papers Past" website.]
A browse through the NZ BDM on line index has revealed these two deaths.
Cyril Vine CHATTERTON, died 1987. Date of birth, 21.7.1915.
Winifred Vine TORR*, died 2011. Date of birth, 22.1.1929.
*Indexed under both CHATTERTON & TORR.
Minniehaha.
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Probate/will (1987) for Cyril Vine CHATTERTON of Leeston held at Christchurch archives.
Also a divorce file for *** (1970) [restricted access] held at same archives.
***Includes Vine in name.
Minniehaha.
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Hi Keith
The lady on The Dover Castle was indeed my GG Grandmother Annie Chatterton nee Parrett
For your interest
Ernest John Chatterton born 16 Dec 1873 died 30Jun 1941
Egbert William " born 12 Aug 1875 died 7 Jun 1939
Sydney James " born 16 Apr 1878 died 21 Mar 1963
Walter Vine " born 7 May 1879 died 3 Sept 1904 Typhoid
Louisa Tryphena " born 14 Jul 1881 died 11 Jun 1945 married Charles Patchett
Harold Henry " born 3 Apr 1885 died 7 Apr 1944
Stanley Edward " born 17 Sept 1887 Died [ Need to check] Sydney Australia
Stanley was a co founder of the Woolworths business in Australia and New Zealand
Google has some interesting articles about him
The Vine name has been passed down.. I have it as one of my names...
Happy hunting
Franands
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Hi...In reference to Lucy2's post JVC did indeed go back to Lincolnshire in his old age, and he had a wonderful time. I have a copy of the journal he wrote about his trip
Franands
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Hi all.
I'd like to connect for information exchange re this thread because my husband is a Vine Chatterton descendant.
My husband migrated from NZ where he was born, to Australia.
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Hi Carlian,
I am a descendant of Matthew Southwell Vine (my Gt GT Grandfather) Master Mariner of Spalding. Louisa Vine (Mathew Southwell's younger sister) who married Michael Chatterton 07-08-1845 was the mother of the John Vine Chatterton who emigrated to New Zealand (worked his passage on the Dover Castle) with his wife who had to pay. J V C kept a record of his voyages at sea with my Gt GT Grandfather & Gt Grandfather John Henry Vine and these jottings have been transcribed by Fran Rae who is in New Zealand a great granddaughter. I can give you information about the Vine family before Louisa but Fran (franlands) can give you more about J V C.
Regards
Keith110639
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Thanks Keith
I will need to check my records but from memory, my husband's ancestor was Matthew Vine Chatterton from Islington who went to NZ with or to join his brother. I think he took his family.
The Family stories go that the two brothers fought and never reconciled; one living on the north island and the other on the south island.
Some researchers thought they were not related branches but I think that's not true.
His son was Raymond and that's my husband's grandfather. Raymond had Walter who had Brian; my husband. I hope to get in touch with Fran lands
Thanks again
Carlina
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Hi Carlina...
There is a connection between the Chatterton families in the North and South Islands.
Matthew Vine Chatterton Married Emily Elizabeth Wright on 17 July 1886 At St.john the Evangalist, Charlotte Street. Camden.
They had one child...Walter Russell Chatterton born 1891
Matthew died in 1893 and Emily was in bad health.
She and Matthew's sister worked to get the money together to send Walter to Nz to be with family here. After Emily died Walter was in an Orphanage for a while, till there was enough money for the trip.
Walter came to Canterbury to be with his uncle, John Vine Chatterton, and went to live with one of John's sons Ernest John Chatterton.
Like all Chattertons of that era Ernest was obviously a hard task master and when Walter Russell returned from the First World war he decided to stay in the North Island. His cousin Ernest was not happy about him going to war.
Walter married Ethel Violet Fawson and had 6children
Keith Chatterton
Paul Oliver Chatterton
Brian Russell Chatterton
Jocelyn Veronica Chatterton
Winifred Vine Chatterton
Walter Raymond Chatterton
My late father always said there was a strong family connection in the North Island.
Hope this is of help.
Fran
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Yes thanks Fran.
The information on family tree tallies.
We have Walter Russell's certificate of when he left the army.
I confused his name before.
His certificate names him Walter Russell without the surnane Chatterton attached - which had something to do with the disagreement. My husband Brian is his grandson.
But the information about how and why Walter senior went to NZ is amazing and greatly appreciated.
We didn't know that Walter Russell was orphaned.
His son Walter Raymond also lost his mother Violet Fawson at a young age and lived with Nana Anderton.I don't know if there was a family relationship or if she was his carer? ?,
My husband, Brian Russel (one "L") Chatterton met her in a nursing home in Dannevirk when he was little.
It is great to get confirmation as to which Chattertons Walter Russell is connected with.
Thanks so much
Carlina
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Carlina...
I was just sitting down to send a message to say...check the Army records as I believe he went to war as Walter Russell.. Good that you have that. My understanding of the cousins "disagreement" was that Walter was a young man who wanted to do his thing and Ernest was a man who really suited his name. Ernest was the eldest child of a large family and as such he was always the "boss" He was also a "pillar of society...chairman of this and chairman of that, and in a family photo with his siblings Ernest was wearing a Masonic symbol. A serious no nonsense man .
It is easy to picture a young puppy trying to be a dog, and the alpha male doing his best to rein him in. The comments I have heard over the years indicate they were two stubborn men locking heads.
I believe it was always expected that Walter would come back to Canterbury. but apparently he made the comment on arriving back in Wellington ..."I am not catching the boat to Lyttleton as my cousin will do what the war has not succeeded in doing....he will kill me".. He obviously thought being told off was going to be worse than the war.
Family stories!!!!!!
Fran
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Carlina,
Family of Mathew Vine Chatterton. John Vine married Elizabeth Southwell 24 December 1772. They had 3 sons John, William & Matthew. John married Elizabeth Catling in 1805. They had 8 children one was my Gt Gt Grandfather Matthew Southwell Vine and another was Louisa who married Michael Chatterton on 7th August 1845. They had 8 children including Matthew Vine Chatterton and John Vine Chatterton. They lived at the Ship Tavern, Cowhirn near Spalding next to the river Welland. My Gt Grandfather was cousin to J V C and they were both born in 1854. This makes us very distant cousins.
Regards
Keith
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Ha ha...yes Keith
Distant cousins by marriage.
However I get confused with all the Johns, Matthews and Walters across the generations.
It would be good to see it on a tree. Can I buy one from you?
Also I met some of Walter Raymond's siblings on various trips to NZ over the years. Including Winnie Torr; mentioned by Minniehaha
Carlina
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Hi Carlina,
don't have a full family tree at hand at the moment only direct one for my own line down from the John Vine who married Elizabeth Southwell. I have a possible parents of this John Vine, a baptism on 08-12-1734 of John Vine father Thomas & mother Mary. This would make him age 38 when he married Elizabeth Southwell, only others found he would be only age 5, 9, 10 or 75 when he married so think this one is right. Next John Vine was a Miller married Elizabeth Catling on 1805 but is not in the 1842 census so must have died before his son Matthew Southwell Vine married Hannah Butler in May 1842. Louisa who married Michael Chatterton sister of Matthew Southwell was born in 1820.
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Hi Keith, If your still looking for information Jhon Vine Chatterton is my great great great Grandfather .following the line to Ernest chatterton to Clyde stanley chatterton to his daughter my Grandmother Marie Ruth Wilson
( Chatterton) . We have photos of family going that far back if your interested. Nice to meet a distant family member!