RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jamesmgray1 on Saturday 08 March 14 09:21 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to acquire information on a former Lithgow resident who was an Australian American Civil War veteran. He died on October 16, 1888. During his service as a Federal soldier, he lost an eye in battle. Mr Thomas Young is buried in the Old Methodist Section at Lithgow cemetery - Row 06 Allotment 15. His wife died on March 14, 1938.
I desperately need information on him and his family, where he was born and from what state he came from in thee U. S.
Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
James M. Gray
SCV Camp 2160
-
A probate packet (?) or deceased estate (?) is available at NSW state records
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\310584
regards,
Ros
adding : I can photograph this for you but not for a couple of weeks.
-
Hi there,
I recollect reading (several decades ago now, so I am not remembering all the details at this minute) about quite a number of NSW citizens who left Australia and headed off to the US of A to serve (some on each side) during the Civil War. I wonder if TROVE will have some info ?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y This should be the link to the digitised newspapers section. Free to search, and you can download pdf or jpeg etc. Sometimes the links fall over, so here's another just in case ;D http://trove.nla.gov.au/
NSW ER 1878 HARTLEY
All with surname YOUNG
John, residence, Eskbank
Thomas, residence, Eskbank
William, residence, Eskbank
NSW ER 1870 HARTLEY
All with surname YOUNG
Thomas, residence, Marangaroo
James, residence, Mount Victoria
George, residence, Mount Victoria
Cheers, JM
-
I desperately need information on him and his family, where he was born and from what state he came from in thee U. S.
NSW BDM death registrations are usually quite informative. Quite often in those Probate Packets that Ros is offering to help with, there will be a copy of the death cert, perhaps even a copy of the marriage cert, and other family history matters.
The NSW BDM online index has some info....
A Thomas YOUNG, parents given names recorded as James and Mary, death registered Lithgow district, 1888. (#9907) Please do remember though that the info about Thomas' family (for example "James and Mary" as parents), is often given by grieving family members, so sometimes it is not as reliable as say information given on a marriage cert.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
http://www.council.lithgow.com/pdfs/cemetery%20list%20jan%2013.pdf This link to a pdf file should help you with several likely family members who are also interred at that cemetery. (some on pages 432, 433 and 434, Row 06, and lots up to 15 if I am reading it properly )
Cheers, JM
-
Links to the websites & research you do might be of interest to RC'ers:
http://www.scvau.com/index.htm
http://www.scvau.com/1-files/bio-jim-gray-1.htm
http://www.acwv.info/1-files/introduction-A.htm
-
You also might like to update some information on your websites:
Major Arthur William JOHN d. 24 April 2012:
Death notice:
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/3009635/view
Funeral notice:
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/3013564/view
Obituary:
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/obituaries/erudite-centenarian-touched-by-history-20120511-1yi8y.html
-
Well I am wondering how our OP has joined the dots to confirm the chap at Lithgow is the same chap who he has as serving in the Confederate Army.... Afterall if the Thomas Young buried 1888 Lithgow is also the chap I have spotted on those Electoral Rolls then he needed to be a British Subject to be eligible to qualify to enrol to vote in NSW Parliamentary elections.
Cheers JM
-
Hi James
Your profile shows you have been an RChatter for many years and this thread seems to be your first time on the RChat Boards so Welcome and 'Enjoy'
Cheers M
-
There are a couple of brief obits and a funeral notice (which I assumed James already had) but they help to join the dots
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13699868
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article139048638
funeral description http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13700076
regards,
Ros
-
Hi James,
May I please ask if the info we have posted has helped?
You had written that you desperately needed information, and I can see that you have been online several times since each of us has posted, but I cannot see if you have found the info helpful.
I do have many offline NSW resources, particularly for 19th Century NSW and I am happy to look further, but they are hardcopy resources, so they are not keyword searchable.
You were asking about Thomas Young's birthplace and where he was from in the USA... If he was born in the USA, then may I ask HOW LIKELY would it be that he was a British Subject? (It is of course possible, if say his father was British .... )
Cheers, JM
-
It is entirely possible he may have been British. Many stepped off the boats in the U.S. only to be pressed into the military due to the war. They migrated from many different countries.
Some of these old veterans are really hard to pin down due to a lack of available information, but I keep trying.
If I knew what state he lived in in the U.S., that would help determine what unit he "might" have served in, as they usually enlisted in their home state.
I really do appreciate any help as I don't me, but for the descendants, the veterans and to preserve the history.
Thank you again to all who are trying to assist.
James
-
Have you been specifically asked by a descendant of Thomas Young to research their ancestor?
Cheers, JM
-
No I haven't; I don't know any of his descendants. Wish I did.
-
His wife died on March 14, 1938.
Have you been specifically asked by a descendant of Thomas Young to research their ancestor?
No I haven't; I don't know any of his descendants.
So, how do you know that his wife died 14 Mar 1938?
Would you like to post her name & any other details you have please?
-
Yes, I too would like to know the answer to Merlin's question.
So, how do you know that his wife died 14 Mar 1938?
Would you like to post her name & any other details you have please?
What I also find confusing is those two words James used : "desperate need " ..... how can this be "desperate" or a "need" ......
Cheers, JM
-
One of the newspaper links supplied by Ros reads in part,
18th October
Lithgow
"Mr Thomas Young a very old resident died today......"
If his wife died in 1938 and he was already an very old resident in 1888, then she must have been many years his junior.
Sue
-
:)
May I please suggest she may have been "Many decades his junior" ;D
Cheers, JM
-
A Thomas YOUNG, parents given names recorded as James and Mary, death registered Lithgow district, 1888. (#9907)
majm
There were two other men with parents of the same name in Lithgow.
They are buried at the same Cemetery in close proximity to Thomas YOUNG.
Reg 18034/1914 YOUNG William. Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW
Reg 21349/1919 YOUNG John. Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW
Sue
-
Sue;
Thank you for the help.
James
-
You're welcome James.
Are you able to give particulars of the wife of Thomas whom you have mentioned?
Sue
-
I have looked at the 1903 NSW ER, and of the 2693 persons in the Parramatta Electorate and with Lithgow as the polling place, there’s eighteen with the surname YOUNG. (8 are female)
Cheers, JM
-
Mr Google can be a fantastic help
Back in August 2011 someone was looking for Thomas Young and they had the newspaper cutting
http://boards.ancestry.com.au/surnames.young/13479/mb.ashx
and more recently
http://boards.ancestry.com.au/localities.oceania.australia.nsw.general/8743/mb.ashx
The cutting (SMH 16 Oct 1888) seems to indicate that Thomas lost the sight in his eye during the American Civil War, and that the SMH had received the report to show that Thomas died on the Monday which I suggest would be 15 Oct 1888.
Cheers, JM
-
Not yet.
-
Possible?
marriage
3580 / 1880 YOUNG Thomas m. NIELSON Sophie Lithgow
births
8047 / 1882 YOUNG Waldemar H Thomas / Sophia Lithgow
19686 / 1883 YOUNG Henry Gower Thomas / Sophia Lithgow
22826 / 1886 YOUNG Johanna M Thomas / Sophia Lithgow
death
8790 / 1918 YOUNG Henry G Thomas / Sophia Lithgow
ER 1930 Macquarie Portland
YOUNG Waldemar Howell, Lid-dale, cordial manufacturer
YOUNG William Howell Lid-dale, carter
TOUNG Mary Ann Lid-dale domestic duties
-
Who knows? It's worth checking out. Thanks.
-
It has become apparent, James, that you do not wish to share information with those attempting to assist you. You have been asked several times to furnish details of your claim that the wife of Thomas YOUNG died in 1938 and still nothing is forthcoming and you offer no explanation for this.
Whatever your reasons, you have created an obstacle to forward progress.
I have previously looked at the likliehood of Sophia NEILSON being his wife and it remains a lead worth looking at, but there was a death in the name Sophia YOUNG in 1897.
EDIT
A newspaper item places a woman in Lithgow named Mrs YOUNG in the right timeframe as a widow with young children. It may or may not be her EDIT
If William YOUNG was a brother of Thomas, it is possible he was born in Wales as the headstone of William at Lithgow Cemetery gives his date of birth and place of birth as Wales.
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery.php?id=211
Perhaps you had better order a transcription of the death of Thomas YOUNG to discover the answer to your questions.
Sue
Note. I have made an edit to this post. The information was inaccurate.
-
It seems like a very worthy quest that James is on. :) I know that we all want to help.
Perhaps I can get to the records office sooner rather than later and photograph the probate packet which may contain the death cert (and save James some pennies). It should at least make clear about the widow. Or do you already have this James?
The probate announcement says he had 708 pounds.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article108114233
regards,
Ros
(I sometimes only made note of some of the info as at the time the rest was obvious. However a few years later ... :( Perhaps this is what James did or maybe a typo)
-
I am trying to acquire information on a former Lithgow resident
who was anAustralian American Civil War veteran.
He died on October 16, 1888.
During his service as a Federal soldier, he lost an eye in battle.
Mr Thomas Young is buried in the Old Methodist Section at Lithgow cemetery - Row 06 Allotment 15.
His wife died on March 14, 1938.
I desperately need information on him and his family,
where he was born and
from what state he came from in thee U. S.
Any help on this will be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
James M. Gray
SCV Camp 2160
James,
Your initial post has "facts" that need testing, afterall, as you are an experienced researcher of long standing, you know that each 'fact' deserves to be tested and validated or eliminated.
May I gently mention that I notice that since your 2011 post at Ancestry you seem to have gathered further information from Trove's fantastic newspaper collection, AND so you have also gathered information that now gives YOU a wife for Thomas YOUNG and her date of death.
So far, some the 'facts' I can easily verify. And some of those 'facts' are not exactly as you have posted. The newspaper cutting you have uploaded on one of the Ancestry threads .... please read it carefully.
a) His date of death is NOT 16 October 1888. That is the date of the edition of the newspaper cutting that carried the news and it is that cutting that you uploaded to your thread at Ancestry. Here on your thread, I have confirmed that the NSW BDM online index has a death registration that is very likely for that Thomas YOUNG in 1888 and I have provided the pdf for the Lithgow Cemetery. Other RChatters have clearly also gone through that same exercise, testing the info you posted, and testing my replies. They have found further info about Thomas (eg probate at NSW SR) and have posted it, and I have tested their replies. That's all part of the process of helping YOU to validate your information.
b) Did he lose an eye in battle or did he lose the sight of one eye while he was a Federal Soldier ...? Apologies to Ros for duplicating these cuttings :)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/139048638 Newcastle Herald, 17 October 1888
"Mr. Thomas Young, of Lithgow, is dead. Deceased was an old Federal soldier in the American civil war, where he lost the sight of one eye."
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13699868 SMH 16 Oct 1888
LITHGOW, Monday. Mr. Thomas Young, a very old resident, died to-day. Deceased was well known in the district. He was an old Federal soldier in the American civil war, where he lost the
sight of one eye.
Ros is right in saying that we want to help, but to do so we need you to answer our questions, and to expect us to ask more questions too. :)
Cheers, JM
-
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11168325 The Argus Saturday 19 March 1938
"Mr. Thomas Young
The death occurred on Sunday of Mrs. Thomas Young, who was one of the oldest residents of Horsham. ......"
Sunday would be 13 March 1938. That is one day earlier than the date James has cited.
Probably this is NOT the widow of the Federal soldier.
Cheers, JM
-
Well found JM :) And it seems you are right that this is not the correct one.
Here is an obit to Catherine YOUNG of Horsham died 13 March 1938, whose husband Thomas precedeceased her by 3 years and quite a lot of details about their lives.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article72587285
regards,
Ros
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ye0/
with date as 16 Oct 1888.....
ADD there is a note April 09, 2010
"He claimed to have served in the Union Army, during the American Civil War, and lost the sight of one eye as a result of the war. However, research has not been able to claim such service, but is continuing. He died in the town of Lithgow, in New South Wales, Australia."
Thanks Ros for finding that 1938 Obit, that certainly confirms that the Mrs Thomas YOUNG who died 13 March 1938 was not the widow of the chap from Lithgow.
Cheers, JM
-
You are wrong about not wanting to share. If you send me an email address, I will send you "everything" I have on the subject. Anything I have, on any veteran, is yours for the asking.That is what research is all about; sharing. I will mull through all the postings and see how they fin into the subject at hand.
JG
(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi James,
The forum here is about a team working together to find answers ;D.
Your sending information to me on a private basis will not be of help to the group which is trying to be of assistance. The whole group needs your cooperation to advance.
I will watch with interest for any new developments in your quest ;D
As I have said, the certificate of the death of Thomas (a transcription perhaps) will possibly help you.
Sue
-
I have made contact with one of his descendants and have acquired a picture of him. She has some information and hopefully will be able to provide more. She lives in country Victoria.
-
Great news James :)
So you don't need the probate packet? Is that correct?
Please tell us the name of his wife ... just to satisfy our curiosity. :) (we have spent a while looking for her)
regards,
Ros
-
His wife's name was Mary. I acquired the information from Lithgow City Council, New South Wales. Buried near him are William YOUNG, Reg 18034/1914, Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW and John YOUNG, Reg 21349/1919, Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW.
The only thing I have on his probate is a small news clipping.
-
His wife's name was Mary. I acquired the information from Lithgow City Council, New South Wales. Buried near him are William YOUNG, Reg 18034/1914, Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW and John YOUNG, Reg 21349/1919, Parents James & Mary at LITHGOW.
The only thing I have on his probate is a small news clipping.
The small news clipping was with the post earlier today.
For those who missed it, it was undated and not attributed to any newspaper and listed among many other estates for probate that of Thomas Young. I think the total of the estate was around 700 pounds
;D ;D
Sue
-
I included the link to the article in an earlier post Sue :) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article108114233
Thanks James for the wife's name. Did she remarry ? :)
The probate packets (deceased estates) vary a lot. There is often a will, a death cert and details of wife and children. There should at least be a detailed list of his assets and who is to inherit them - may include war info (pension ? medals ?) or other useful info.
I'm aiming to go to NSW SRO on friday and will photograph for you although you probably have most of the info from the descendant now. But there is another rootschatter eagerly awaiting a probate packet.
How exciting to have a photo :)
cheers,
Ros
-
Hi All,
So Thomas' widow was a Mary, and James learnt this from Lithgow City Council. I do not have the spare moments to go through all 430 plus pages of the Lithgow City Council's Cemetery records pdf that I linked earlier.
http://www.council.lithgow.com/pdfs/cemetery%20list%20jan%2013.pdf This link to a pdf file should help you with several likely family members who are also interred at that cemetery. (some on pages 432, 433 and 434, Row 06, and lots up to 15 if I am reading it properly )
I recollect that Sue mentioned the William and John YOUNG, registered Lithgow, at NSW BDM INDEX with parents as James and Mary.
It is good to know that in less than a week since James commenced this thread here at RChat that he has been able to advance his quest, and that he now has a photo and has made contact with Thomas Young's family.
Perhaps they will be willing to share
where he was born and from what state he came from in thee U. S.
Fingers crossed :)
Cheers, JM
-
Can any one point me in the direction of Thomas youngs descendants ??? I have something that belonged to Thomas and wish to return it to his family !
I grew up in lithgow , and my grand father was given something with his name in it !
It also mentions him being married on the 15th December 1834 to Alice.
And below is written
Elisabeth young born 24th September 1836?
-
Welcome to RootsChat Chloepatto :) What a lovely kind thought.
James the original poster has been sent a notification of your reply, he is going to be excited to hear from you.
Regards
Sarah :)
-
Thanks for the message ! I hope he does reply . I hope it is the same Thomas we are searching for ! Seems a bit coincidental we are both looking for a Thomas young from lithgow so fingers crossed !!
-
Hi there,
Welcome to RChat from me too.
I am one of the RChatters who has helped on this thread. It is fascinating to know that in 2014 you are holding something that shows that Thomas was married to Alice back in 1834 and that the couple had a daughter, Elisabeth in 1836.
May I please ask if it gives the location of the marriage for Thomas and Alice, or the birth for Elisabeth.
Cheers, JM (born and raised 'on the Lachlan' and with relatives from around the Greater Lithgow district too, mostly over towards Oberon )
-
I found a record of Thomas young = alice grieves married 15/12/1834 cramlington England but that's all I have found ! I presume that if it is the same person that he remarried , , I'm just trying to find out how this book came into our possession considering there is a Thomas young burrowed in lithgow with the right sort of time frame:)
I know my grand father got this bible from the lady that lived behind him when she passed away , her last name was Davies ! I am unsure if she had a link with the family or picked the book up locally .