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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tigsy on Thursday 06 March 14 12:01 GMT (UK)

Title: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Tigsy on Thursday 06 March 14 12:01 GMT (UK)
I wonder if anyone can help me discover if Jeremiah (also known as Henry) was a criminal - my reason for asking is that I have recently discovered that there is housing in St Pancras in the early 1800's that was one of the few in the area that housed 'ex prisoners'. He was born in the Marylebone/St Pancras area around 1798, yet married at St George the Martyr, near Marechalsea Prison in Southwark, before returning to St Pancras.  He was clearly abit of a rebel as he named his youngest son John Francis after the person who attempted to assassinate Queen Victoria.

I have always wondered why he would have got married in Southwark, to return to St Pancras. Was he a criminal returning to a place where ex prisoners were accepted or was his father John Collins a criminal and he was living close to the prison.

Any help would be very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 12:29 GMT (UK)
Some initial thoughts:

Couples usually married in the bride's parish. Did his wife to be come from Southwark?

What leads you to believe that he named his son John Francis after the person who attempted to assassinate Queen Victoria? It is not an uncommon combination of names. :-\

I may be wrong, but unless you have further information to indicate that he was a criminal, I think you are jumping to conclusions making the assumptions you have with the facts you have related here.

Did he give his address as the housing you mention in St Pancras?

Others may have more knowledge of how to locate records of convicted criminals, but the only things that come to mind are perhaps the Old Bailey records, or newspapers of the time.
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 12:55 GMT (UK)
Do you have Jeremiah and family through the censuses?
Who did he marry and when?
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 13:40 GMT (UK)
Did Jeremiah marry Sarah?

Did they have the following children?:
First name unknown, middle name Charles b 23 Nov 1831
Alfred George b 23 Jun 1840
John Francis b 5 Feb 1843
Address on baptisms given as Upper Ogle St
Jeremiah's occupation is usually a Porter?

Ogle Street (which was known as Upper Ogle St) is still there today, and though difficult to judge, looking at an old map, seems to have been a well to do area.

I think perhaps I may have the wrong Collins family?
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Tigsy on Thursday 06 March 14 13:48 GMT (UK)
Thank you, yes this is the family.  I have managed to trace the whole of the family back to Marylebone to the 1660's, and they stayed in the area, until my grandparents moved from Camden in the 1930's.  It just seems strange why to marry in Southwark, close to a prison and return.  Sarah was from Waltham Abbey so nowhere near Southwark. 
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Tigsy on Thursday 06 March 14 13:51 GMT (UK)
I am trying to establish where the housing was that 'ex-prisoners' could live in St Pancras, it was on a social housing walk around the Kings Cross area that I found out this fact and put 'two and two' together.  The Collins family mainly lived on Oussleston Street, near to St Pancras Station.
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 13:52 GMT (UK)
I have just added to my previous post regarding the location of Ogle St.

Apart from the three boys, did Jeremiah and Sarah have more children?

I have had problems finding the family in the censuses. From you saying they lived in Oussleston St, I take it that is where they are in the censuses?
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 13:56 GMT (UK)
I am trying to establish where the housing was that 'ex-prisoners' could live in St Pancras, it was on a social housing walk around the Kings Cross area that I found out this fact and put 'two and two' together. 

Can you recall a time frame that the housing was built?
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Bookbox on Thursday 06 March 14 13:59 GMT (UK)
It just seems strange why to marry in Southwark, close to a prison and return.

In case it steers your thinking at all, the Marshalsea was essentially a debtors' prison, not a criminal prison.
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 14:02 GMT (UK)
You say Jeremiah married in Southwark and then returned to St Pancras - how long did he stay in Southwark. It's only just over the river so not too far away - perhaps he had employment there.

I think the fact that he married "near" a prison is irrelevant. There were prisons, workhouses, asylums, etc all around Greater London. :-\

Similar with the prisoner's housing in St Pancras. It doesn't follow that he was an inmate ....
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 14:03 GMT (UK)
It just seems strange why to marry in Southwark, close to a prison and return.

In case it steers your thinking at all, the Marshalsea was essentially a debtors' prison, not a criminal prison.

Ah, I thought it sounded familiar - is that the prison associated with Dickens?
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 14:17 GMT (UK)
Looking at an old map of the area, Ossulston Street looks to be a decent area (if I have the right street and it's the one that runs into Euston Road?). Most houses have a yard/garden, though one side of the street does contain railway goods sheds. I can't see any housing for criminals or institutions of any sort in the near vicinity.

Note though that the map I am looking at is later than when your family were living there. I will look for an earlier map to compare.

Added. I have found an earlier map, but not much detail, but at this time Ossulston Street appears to have been housing on both sides as it is pre St Pancras Station. I will continue looking ....

...if you can recall the name of the criminal's housing or whereabouts it was, that might be very useful in trying to locate it.
Title: Re: Was Jeremiah Henry Collins a criminal?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 06 March 14 15:11 GMT (UK)
After looking at several maps from the 1830s and 40s I can't see any obvious prison related buildings marked on any of them in the area around Kings Cross. (but there was a small pox hospital and a fever hospital where Kings Cross Station is  :))

Approximately the southern half of Ossulston Street was actually called Wilsted Street. It is difficult to say what kind of buildings would have been along Ossulston St, but there are several named "Buildings" in this and neighbouring streets, perhaps indicating terraced housing or buildings of two or three storeys.