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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Beckett1940 on Tuesday 04 March 14 16:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello! I suppose you get a lot of vague requests and mine is one of those.
My father and his mother were born in the Vauxhall area , ( Liverpool) the last place they lived was Athol Street, also Burlington Street. his name was Patrick John Lockhart.
He had a sister Mary.
His mothers mother lived with them her name was Riley.
I wonder do Any of you remember them? I know it's a long shot. he was born in 1922. Died 1992 .
He always spoke about going " Down Attie" when he died there was a wreath sent , no name , it said " To the boy from over the bridge" so many unanswered questions. Too late now. I would love to hear if anyone remembers him.
Beckett.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Do you know the christian name of your fathers mother and also the christian name of her mother who you say was surname Riley?
Your fathers birth registration shows his mothers maiden name was also Lockhart
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Hi
His sister Mary was born in 1919 and her mothers maiden name is also shown as Lockhart
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Hi
His sister Mary was born in 1919 and her mothers maiden name is also shown as Lockhart
The date would be correct , they lived in London. We were from Liverpool. Thank you so much for your reply. Do you have any more details?
Beckett.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Do you know the christian name of your fathers mother and also the christian name of her mother who you say was surname Riley?
Your fathers birth registration shows his mothers maiden name was also Lockhart
My Fathers mother was Margaret and so was her mother . I know his mother was single when she had both children - we were never told a thing. It just fascinates me that she brought them up in those times on her own.
P
My great grandmother was Riley before she married and became Lockhart. She was from Dublin. I think she married Ephriam,might be wrong, just blurred memories. X
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Hi and Welcome to RootsChat
The only Lockhart - Riley marriage that I can see in the right time frame for Patrick John's mother's parents is the one below
Marriage Date 10 Apr 1887 in the Parish of Liverpool, St Matthias
Ephraim Lockhart age 23 Labourer to Margaret Riley 22
Fathers Abraham Lockhart Labourer and John Riley Coal Heaver
Witnesses Thomas Conner and Margaret Connell
Kay
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Hi and Welcome to RootsChat
The only Lockhart - Riley marriage that I can see in the right time frame for Patrick John's mother's parents is the one below
Marriage Date 10 Apr 1887 in the Parish of Liverpool, St Matthias
Ephraim Lockhart age 23 Labourer to Margaret Riley 22
Fathers Abraham Lockhart Labourer and John Riley Coal Heaver
Witnesses Thomas Conner and Margaret Connell
Kay
That sounds like them! The dates are correct, I think Margaret ( nee Riley ) died in 1954 I remember her funeral, she was about 90 years old which ties in with her age on her marriage. My father refused all his life to speak about his life although he adored his mother. I always knew his mother was single but I was never told. Thank you so much for your time and effort.. I just think I will never know the circumstances of his birth. Xx
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Hi
This forum can help with family history and there may be some people from that area on here but have you tried the Scottie Press forum? There are people on there who lived in that area so it might be a good idea to post a similar enquiry on there:-
http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/forum/mainfrum.php
Blue
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1901? Living at 45 Denbigh St Liverpool All children born Liverpool. I wonder if Wiliam was Margaret's brother?
Ephriam Lockhart 38 b Liverpool Dock Labourer
Margaret Lockhart 35b Dublin
John Lockhart 13 Pawnbrokers Assistant
Thomas Lockhart 9
Maggie Lockhart 7
Charlotte Lockhart 2
William Riley 24 Boarder b Liverpool General Labourer
RG13 Piece 3409 Folio 173 Page 45.
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:) Hi and welcome to Rootschat, in 1891 the family were at 7, Ascot Street, Liverpool with an additional son Ephriam aged 5 months ( he dies aged 2 Sept qtr 1892 West Derby 8b 233)
Census ref RG12/2903/43/20
Keyboard86
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1901? Living at 45 Denbigh St Liverpool All children born Liverpool. I wonder if Wiliam was Margaret's brother?
Ephriam Lockhart 38 b Liverpool Dock Labourer
Margaret Lockhart 35b Dublin
John Lockhart 13 Pawnbrokers Assistant
Thomas Lockhart 9
Maggie Lockhart 7
Charlotte Lockhart 2
William Riley 24 Boarder b Liverpool General Labourer
RG13 Piece 3409 Folio 173 Page 45.
Yes, this is my family, Margaret Lockhart was Maggie , I know she had a younger sister Charlotte, I found her grave plot in Ford, purely by accident. The boarder William Riley? Maybe the brother of my great grand mother Margaret. I am delighted . Thank you very much .
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Hi and Welcome to RootsChat
The only Lockhart - Riley marriage that I can see in the right time frame for Patrick John's mother's parents is the one below
Marriage Date 10 Apr 1887 in the Parish of Liverpool, St Matthias
Ephraim Lockhart age 23 Labourer to Margaret Riley 22
Fathers Abraham Lockhart Labourer and John Riley Coal Heaver
Witnesses Thomas Conner and Margaret Connell
Kay
That sounds like them! The dates are correct, I think Margaret ( nee Riley ) died in 1954 I remember her funeral, she was about 90 years old which ties in with her age on her marriage. My father refused all his life to speak about his life although he adored his mother. I always knew his mother was single but I was never told. Thank you so much for your time and effort.. I just think I will never know the circumstances of his birth. Xx
Yes the burial records confirm that date:-
Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Year: abt 1866
Age: 88
Address: 35 Somerton Street
Section: AC (Private - family plot)
Grave: 184
Burial Date: 25 Jan 1954
Place: Ford Cemetery, Lancashire, England
Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Birth Year: abt 1864
Age: 70
Address: Mill Road Hospital
Section: SV (Public - paid for single burial)
Grave: 1698
Burial Date: 17 Jan 1934
Place: Ford Cemetery, Lancashire, England
Blue
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http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php
1883 -1900
lockhart = 13 results ...your Margaret is as follows
1894-3393 WORKHOUSE, 282-NIC-4-3B (180) 1894 1894 MARGARET LOCKHART MARGARET LOCKHART
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Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Date: 30 Jun 1894
Baptism Date: 16 Jul 1894
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Mother's name: Margaret Reilly
Address: 42 Denbigh Street
Godmother: Elizabeth Johnson
Blue
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1894-3394 ST ALBAN 282-ALB-1-6 (642) 1894 1894 MARGARET LOCKHAR- EPHRAIM - MARGARET REILLY
apologies - there were obviously 2 Margaret Lockhart born that year and registered as Roman Catholic ...
other baptisms for children of Ephraim and Margaret on that site
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Hello! I suppose you get a lot of vague requests and mine is one of those.
My father and his mother were born in the Vauxhall area , ( Liverpool) the last place they lived was Athol Street, also Burlington Street. his name was Patrick John Lockhart.
He had a sister Mary.
His mothers mother lived with them her name was Riley.
I wonder do Any of you remember them? I know it's a long shot. he was born in 1922. Died 1992 .
He always spoke about going " Down Attie" when he died there was a wreath sent , no name , it said " To the boy from over the bridge" so many unanswered questions. Too late now. I would love to hear if anyone remembers him.
Beckett.
Notice from your posts Margaret Riley was born in Dublin. From www.irishgenealogy.ie
RC Parish St Andrew. Baptism Margaret Reilly 1865 Address 33 Mercers St Dublin. Father John Reilly Mother Margaret Walsh. Note Margaret Lockhart had 2 children John & Maggie on 1901 census. :)
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1901? Living at 45 Denbigh St Liverpool All children born Liverpool. I wonder if Wiliam was Margaret's brother?
Ephriam Lockhart 38 b Liverpool Dock Labourer
Margaret Lockhart 35b Dublin
John Lockhart 13 Pawnbrokers Assistant
Thomas Lockhart 9
Maggie Lockhart 7
Charlotte Lockhart 2
William Riley 24 Boarder b Liverpool General Labourer
RG13 Piece 3409 Folio 173 Page 45.
Same in 1911 minus John and boarder & with slightly different address. ;)
Ephraim's birth in case you want to go back further:
Births
Sep 1863
LOCKHART Ephraim
Liverpool 8b 72
Though with such a distinctive name he will probably be findable on earlier censuses with his parents.
Added: Found Ephraim age 7, with widowed mother Eliza and brother William on the 1871 census.
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http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php
1883 -1900
lockhart = 13 results ...your Margaret is as follows
1894-3393 WORKHOUSE, 282-NIC-4-3B (180) 1894 1894 MARGARET LOCKHART MARGARET LOCKHART
O M G .. Was she born in the workhouse? How would she if she was on the census as living at Denbigh Street?
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Hello! I suppose you get a lot of vague requests and mine is one of those.
My father and his mother were born in the Vauxhall area , ( Liverpool) the last place they lived was Athol Street, also Burlington Street. his name was Patrick John Lockhart.
He had a sister Mary.
His mothers mother lived with them her name was Riley.
I wonder do Any of you remember them? I know it's a long shot. he was born in 1922. Died 1992 .
He always spoke about going " Down Attie" when he died there was a wreath sent , no name , it said " To the boy from over the bridge" so many unanswered questions. Too late now. I would love to hear if anyone remembers him.
Beckett.
Notice from your posts Margaret Riley was born in Dublin. From www.irishgenealogy.ie
RC Parish St Andrew. Baptism Margaret Reilly 1865 Address 33 Mercers St Dublin. Father John Reilly Mother Margaret Walsh. Note Margaret Lockhart had 2 children John & Maggie on 1901 census. :)
Thank you so much for your time devoted to my family , I appreciate it more than you know, I am very touched. Maggie was therefore my grandmother who never married, had two children, one of whom was my father. Her mother Margaret Riley, yes that's correct, she was indeed from Dublin. I am delighted . Kathy. ( Beckett)
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Beckett1940 - Kathy
Possible records for Reilly family in Dublin
Marriage John Reilly 9 Bridges St Dublin Father Charles Reilly
Margaret Walsh 1 Lower Mercer Street Dublin Father James Walsh
10th April 1864 RC Parish St Andrew Dublin
Children baptised to above couple:
All Parish St Andrew Dublin
Margaret 1865
Charles John 1867
John Joseph 1868
Bridget Mary 1870
Regards Frances :)
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Beckett1940 - Kathy
Possible records for Reilly family in Dublin
Marriage John Reilly 9 Bridges St Dublin Father Charles Reilly
Margaret Walsh 1 Lower Mercer Street Dublin Father James Walsh
10th April 1864 RC Parish St Andrew Dublin
Children baptised to above couple:
All Parish St Andrew Dublin
Margaret 1865
Charles John 1867
John Joseph 1868
Bridget Mary 1870
Regards Frances :)
Thank you Frances, I am amazed here, so this is my great granny? Margaret Reilly? I never knew she even had siblings, although she was alive until I was aged seven, she lived with us. Four generations all in one house, it was just after the war. Thank you again.
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http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/baptisms.php
1883 -1900
lockhart = 13 results ...your Margaret is as follows
1894-3393 WORKHOUSE, 282-NIC-4-3B (180) 1894 1894 MARGARET LOCKHART MARGARET LOCKHART
O M G .. Was she born in the workhouse? How would she if she was on the census as living at Denbigh Street?
Kathy, although most babies would have been born at home at this time, I am wondering if Margaret was born in the workhouse due to the medical attention available there, rather than her being destitute or an inmate? Prior to the National Health system, workhouses were also used as a free source of medical care.
Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable may know if this may have been the case in this instance.
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At marriage in 1887 the father of Ephraim is said to be Abraham, and on the 1871 census Ephraim is with widowed mother Eliza - the names are unusual, but I can't see a suitable marriage on free bmd.
On the 1861 census there are a couple of Abraham Locketts born and living in Staffordshire .... the Abraham Lockhart born in Bedfordshire I have eliminated as he marries Elizabeth Dainty in 1877, has a middle name Harland.
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"Going down the Attie"
probably The Athol Vaults pub ...a pub I used to drink in 1980`s when I worked off Vauxhall Road
http://deathofthebritishpub.co.uk/athol-vaults-vauxhall-road/
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"Going down the Attie"
probably The Athol Vaults pub ...a pub I used to drink in 1980`s when I worked off Vauxhall Road
http://deathofthebritishpub.co.uk/athol-vaults-vauxhall-road/
Yes! He used to go there! How he longed for his old pals, those old districts were the heart and soul of Liverpool. I will look at that website, thank you,
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a coach party outside the pub is on this site - Scottiepress will probably have details on The Athol Vaults
http://www.scottiepress.org/projects/famhist3.htm
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Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Date: 30 Jun 1894
Baptism Date: 16 Jul 1894
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Mother's name: Margaret Reilly
Address: 42 Denbigh Street
Godmother: Elizabeth Johnson
Blue
That's not right about the workhouse Margaret wasn't born in a workhouse she was born at 42 Denbigh Street and baptised at St Alban's. See above transcript of baptism.
Blue
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She could have been born in a workhouse, the address given, is the address at the time of the baptism.
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The workhouse birth/baptism is a different one. The mother appears to be unmarried here it is:-
Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Date: 31 May 1894
Baptism Date: 8 Jun 1894
Parish: St Nicholas RC Church
Mother's name: Margaret Lockhart
Godmother: Catherine Grace
The mother of this child may have died in 1895 there was a Margaret Lockhart who died in the Liverpool Workhouse in 1895 here is the burial record:-
Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Year: abt 1866
Age: 29
Address: Liverpool Workhouse
Burial Date: 3 Mar 1895
Place: Ford Cemetery, Lancashire, England
"WORKHOUSE RECORDS ... a large number of baptisms, of Roman Catholic inmates, can be found in the Baptismal Registers of St. Nicholas', Copperas Hill."
Source of quote:-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hibernia/records/iril.htm
Here is the right baptism:-
Name: Margaret Lockhart
Birth Date: 30 Jun 1894
Baptism Date: 16 Jul 1894
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Mother's name: Margaret Reilly
Address: 42 Denbigh Street
Godmother: Elizabeth Johnson
Blue
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Sorry but I think that possible Irish link discovered by ballydw could be wrong. William Riley was probably Margaret's brother and his parents appear to be John Riley and Charlotte Ware this is the baptism:-
Name: Gulielmus Reilly (William Riley)
Birth Date: 19 Sep 1877
Baptism Date: 25 Sep 1877
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: Joannis Reilly (John Riley)
Mother's name: Charlotta Ware (Charlotte Ware)
Address: 47 Paget Street
This appears to be the Margaret who married Ephraim Lockhart with her family on the 1871 Census:-
28 Paget Street
Piece: 3765 Folio: 70
John Reilly, 40, Labourer, Ireland
Charlotte Reilly, 38, Ireland
Emily Reilly, 7, Ireland
Margaret Reilly, 5, Ireland
Henrietta Reilly, 2 months, Liverpool Lancashire
This appears to be Charlotte Ware's baptism in Dublin in 1833:-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0ddf880321678
This is the eldest daughter from the 1871 Census:-
Name: Charlotte Emily Reilly
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 3 Apr 1864
Birth Place: Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Father's Name: John Reilly
Mother's name: Charlotte Ware
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQG-WY1
This is Margaret Reilly who married Ephraim Lockhart:-
Name: Margaret Reilly
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 14 Jun 1866
Birth Place: Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Father's Name: John Reilly
Mother's name: Charlotte Wyer
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F52D-PSD
John Reilly and Charlotte Ware/Weir/Wyer appear to have married in 1864:-
Marriage Index
Name: Charlotte Weir
Date of Registration: 1864
Registration district: Dublin North
Volume: 2 Page Number: 615
FHL Film Number: 101249
Possible matches:-
John Reilly
James Johnson
John Abbey
Francis Henry Clayton
Blue
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I am in full agreement with Blue - when I posted the Margaret born 1894 in The Workhouse ,mother Margaret- I double checked and there was also Margaret father Ephraim and mother Margaret Reilly in the same year ..
so the Margaret born in the Workhouse is not connected
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Two more baptisms. The Reillys appear to have come to Liverpool between 1866 and 1868:-
Name: Sarah J Reilly
Birth Date: 13 Nov 1868
Baptism Date: 30 Nov 1868
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: John Reilly
Mother's name: Charlotte Ware
Name: Catherine Henrietta Riley
Birth Date: 13 Jan 1871
Baptism Date: 30 Jan 1871
Parish: St Alban's RC Church
Father's Name: John Riley
Mother's name: Charlotte Weer
Here is Sarah Jane's burial record:-
Name: Sarah Jane Reilly
Birth Year: abt 1868
Age: 11 months
Address: 28 Paget Street
Burial Date: 23 Oct 1869
Place: Ford Cemetery, Lancashire, England
Blue
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:) Hi and welcome to Rootschat, in 1891 the family were at 7, Ascot Street, Liverpool with an additional son Ephriam aged 5 months ( he dies aged 2 Sept qtr 1892 West Derby 8b 233)
Census ref RG12/2903/43/20
Keyboard86
Well that's something else I never knew! . Thank you so much for your help. It means a lot to me.
Kathy.
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I think the name Abraham as Ephraim's father on his marriage record is wrong perhaps the name was misheard? This appears to be Ephraim's baptism:-
Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Birth Date: 12 Sep 1863
Baptism Date: 21 Sep 1863
Parish: Liverpool, St Peter CE
Father's Name: Ephraim Lockhart
Occupation: Carter
Mother's name: Eliza Lockhart
Address: Hankin Street
This is a transcript of the parents' marriage:-
Groom: Ephraim Lockhart
Marital Status: Single
Groom's Father: Robert Lockhart
Spouse: Eliza Grimes
Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father: Robert Grimes
Marriage Date: 21 Feb 1859
Marriage Place: St Peter CE Liverpool
Blue
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1861 Census
48 Back Boundary Street
Piece: 2720 Folio: 67
Aphram (Ephraim) Lockhart, Husband, 27, Carter, Manchester
Eliz Lockhart, Wife, 20, Liverpool
Sarah Lockhart, Daughter, 4, Liverpool
Thomas Warburton, Lodger, 16, Carter, Liverpool
Blue
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This is the burial record for the Ephraim (sometimes recorded as Aphram/Abram/Abraham) Lockhart who was the father of the Ephraim Lockhart who married Margaret. It looks like he died in the workhouse hospital:-
Name: Lockhart, Ephraim
Buried : 26 November 1867
Place: Anfield Cemetery - Consecrated Section
Age: 33 years
Occupation: Labourer
Address: Workhouse
District: Liverpool
Folio: 495
Running Number: 9892
Burial Type: Public Grave
Section: 14
Grave: 618
Funeral: Revd, J W Welsh
Registrar: Geo Turvey
Reference: 352 CEM 6/1/2
Blue
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Very good work Blue. Makes complete sense and explains why no Ephraim with father Abraham popped up in the census. All I kept coming up with was that 1861 entry that you posted. :)
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Beckett...
My Aunt and I have been researching our Lockhart family line as is a bit of mystery as yours seems to be. Anyway I regonise the names in your posts and seems we researching the same family. Ephraim who married Eliza Grimes, I believe was the brother of my GG Grandmother Hannah b 1831. I have more details if you interested.
Are you decendant of Ephraim? Have you though of taking a DNA test?
Tom
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Hi Kathy (Beckett)
I am the aunt Tom mentioned. My great grandmother Hannah Lockhart born in Castleblayney in about 1831 is found in the 1841 Census living with Peter Dixon (Dickson) and his family. She later became his wife in 1849. Her father is Robert Lockhart. From research we believe that she has a brother Robert found living in Lancashire in the 1861 Census and possibly also a brother Ephraim and sister Elizabeth, all born in Ireland. We are in the process of confirming this with DNA matches.
We have found a family with the name Ephraim living in Kirkcudbright in the 18th century. All we need is a DNA link back to that family. We need to find when Robert went from Scotland to Ireland to be sure.
Margaret
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Hello, I’m quite new to this but have been looking into our family tree for a few months now. Ephraim Lockhart and Margaret Riley were also my husband’s great great grandparents. I’d become a bit stuck going further back than Margaret so this post has been a great help, thanks.
Emma