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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Old Mother Reilly on Wednesday 26 February 14 19:53 GMT (UK)
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I have recently come across two events in two generations of the same family, each of which seems to have happened twice.
One was for a child who appears to have been baptised twice: once in Salisbury, Wiltshire in 1813 and again a year later in Redbourn, Hertfordshire. I thought maybe the parents were re-using the name but the information the girl gives on the census returns is consistant with the first baptism entry. I haven't found anyone in the census returns whose details match the second baptism details.
The second was a marriage: conducted by licence in Islington and recorded on one day, it also comes up as a marriage recorded in a Parish Register in Daventry a day later! The combination of names make it very unlikely that this is another couple.
The family has work and family ties to all the locations.
Has anyone else found events being repeated like this, perhaps for the sake of far-flung family?
Rachel
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The second was a marriage: conducted by licence in Islington and registered on one day, it also comes up as a marriage registered in Daventry a day later! The combination of names make it very unlikely that this is another couple.
Rachel
When you say 'registered' what do you mean exactly? People being baptised twice is not unusual.
Stan
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Quite right, Stan, sloppy usage of "registered" on my part - hopefully now edited out. However you have answered part of my query: previously, I hadn't come across anyone who had been baptised twice and didn't realise that was not unusual.
The duplicate records for the same couple getting married within 48 hours, 70 miles apart still intrigue me. I have come across ancestors saving money by waiting for "high days and holidays" to get married but never before encountered a couple who would pay fees twice over, plus travel expenses!
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Where did you find these records. I have seen some on familysearch like this where they have wrongly indexed the film/location
Rosie
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I have a case similar to this
On familysearch I have a number of siblings who are each supposedly baptised on the same day in towns many miles apart.
I emailed familysearch giving the details and someone kindly looked at the originals and confirmed the correct data.
I have also applied for copies of the entries in the register from them but as has been mentioned in another thread, these may take some time to arrive.
I must say their service is friendly and helpful and as quick as their workload permits.
Bev.
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It is possible to check on familysearch by checking the film number against the library catalogue on the LDS web site. I had one instance where several parishes were on the same film and they just picked the wrong parish, the other had a place that they quoted did not appear on the film though the parish they were living in did.
The LDS do like to be notified of these errors and as Bev says they are very helpful.
Rosie
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Was the second marriage by licence? Common Licences can only be granted for a marriage to take place in a particular church, so it would not be able to be used for both places.
Stan
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I have one pair of ancestors in Scotland that lived a few miles apart before they married.
The county border ran between their respective abodes. They were married at the girls address and registered the marriage in 'her' county. They then registered the marriage again in his county. The dates of the marriage differ by one day. Her registration recorded the marriage as on the 25th and his registration recorded it as on the 26th of the same month.
I don't know if they married twice in two locals, or if they just registered the marriage in two different districts one day apart.
This was not long after the introduction of BMD registrations as compulsory. I suppose it is possible that they were unsure of what to do, or received conflicting advice. It could also be that they moved in with his parents, or went to live in his county and thought they needed to register the marriage there also.
It is the only example I have come across in my searches.
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Marriages are not registered by individuals but by the church in which the ceremony was conducted. The usual reason for this confusion is banns being recorded by transcibers as actual marriages.
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If you say they had connections to both Islington & Daventry it would seem a bit of a coincidence that the 2nd. marriage was entered in Daventry by mistake.
It's possible they had the Banns read in Daventry & intended to marry there but in the meantime married by Licence in Islington.
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You have come up with some interesting thoughts on how this might have come about - thanks! In the case of the marriage, A******y has images of the marriage register from St Marys Islington so that was easy to verify - however, the Daventry entry is from their dataset "Select Marriages" (in this case" Marriage allegations for the Province of Canterbury, 1660-1851") via FamilyS****h and is a transcription, not an image. Maybe an error has crept in there!
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The allegation will be that part of the Licence held at Canterbury.
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A visit to the clergyman issuing the licence resulted in three documents, an allegation or affidavit, a marriage bond and the licence. The allegation and bond would be filed in the Diocesan Registry. After 1823 bonds ceased to be necessary.
Without the names, and a look at the records on Ancestry and Familysearch, it is difficult to give a considered opinion on the matter.
Stan
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- however, the Daventry entry is from their dataset "Select Marriages" (in this case" Marriage allegations for the Province of Canterbury, 1660-1851") via FamilyS****h and is a transcription, not an image. Maybe an error has crept in there!
If it appears as a transcription on familysearch you can order a copy of the document here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0y5c/
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My great great grandparents James Janes and Mary Cantle seem to have married twice on the same day. (15 June 1828) St John Baptist Bristol and St James church Bristol. I wondered if they were different religions.
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St John Baptist Bristol and St James church Bristol.
If a couple married in a Chapel it will be registered twice, once in the Chapel register & again in the Parish Church register that the Chapel was made out of.
As these are 70 mls. apart that won't apply.
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My great great grandparents James Janes and Mary Cantle seem to have married twice on the same day. (15 June 1828) St John Baptist Bristol and St James church Bristol. I wondered if they were different religions.
Even if they were different denominations at that date a valid marriage had to take place in a Church of England Church, both these churches were C of E.
Stan
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I have a pair of marriages both on 3rd September 1814, I would post the images but probably get told off.
1) In the parish of St Saviour, Southwark,
Thomas Small of this parish, Batchelor, and Sophia Denman of this parish, Spinster
Married in this Church by Banns by me, W. Mann Chaplain [also have image of the banns]
Signatures Tho: Small, Sophia Denman. Witnesses Wm. Moore, Lucy Moore
2) In the parish of St James, Westminster,
Thomas Small Esquire of the parish of St James, Westminster [not 'of this parish'], and Sophia Drake Widow of this parish,
Married in this Church by Licence by me, James Glen Curate
Signatures Tho: Small, Sophia Drake. Witnesses Wm. Moore, Lucy Moore
Register 1) is an original but 2) has all signatures in the same hand so is some sort of copy.
I tended to assume Sophia was known in one parish as unmarried and in the other as a widow; and perhaps Thomas wanted to be sure he was legally married; or some such explanation. Or that the second entry was not of a second ceremony but just a record that the parishioner had married elsewhere (but then was there really a licence?)
Very mysterious.
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Thanks for posting the two marriages for Thomas Small and Sophia. Are your related to them?
I am very grateful for your pointing out the duplication. It is helping to solve some mysteries in my family tree. I think I've worked it out -Sophia Denman was in a de facto relationship with Mr Drake probably William . They had a daughter called Sophia Hannah Drake who was baptized on 26 September 1810 at St George in the East Stepney. Then sometime before her marriage to Thomas in 1814 William died. Sophia then married Thomas under her maiden name at his parish but because she was known at St James Westminster as Mrs Drake and had a daughter she had to be married as a widow under the name of Sophia Drake in her own parish. Incidentally Thomas Small purchased a marriage licence which was granted on 1 September 1814 at Westminster in the names of Sophia Drake widow and Thomas Small Esquire.
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Hi Virginia, if you look at my pages on the will of Matilda Sampson (see my signature below) you will see the link between the Small family and my Rutters. The Smalls were Matilda's second cousins so less directly linked than all the other beneficiaries. My greatx5 grandfather Edward Rutter was married in 1763 and his cousin Francis Small signed the register as a witness.