RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Traceymum on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:09 GMT (UK)

Title: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:09 GMT (UK)
Sophia and George Russell FOULGER

They had 7 kids
Hilda Maude FOULGER
Joyce Muriel Foulger
Clement Dennis Foulger
Ronald George Foulger
Lorna FOULGER
EDNA Jean Foulger
Betty FOULGER


Trying to find anything on Betty FOULGER
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: DORAN54 on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:19 GMT (UK)
could you please give us some dates
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:43 GMT (UK)
George Russell FOULGER
Birth 19 August 1892 in Norwich, Norfolk, England
Sophia  olive  Lockwoods  1896



Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: JJen on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:48 GMT (UK)
Would this be their marriage? -

Sophia H Lockwood
Spouse George R Foulger
Date of Registration - q1 1918
Registration district - Ipswich, Suffolk
Vol 4a Page No 1958

Have you found the birth record of Betty?

JJ
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: JJen on Tuesday 25 February 14 16:56 GMT (UK)
An online tree has George and Sophia's death in NSW, Australia.

Should we be looking for Betty under Australian records as there only seems to be only three births in the UK for Foulger/Lockwood (unless I'm missing something :) )?

JJ Amended - perhaps 4 UK births -

Ronald G Foulger
Mother - Lockwood-hall
Mar 1920  - Tendring, Suffolk
Title: Lost on looking for one family member qqq?;:; ,3 Em e. Q
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 05:31 GMT (UK)
Sophia Lockwood and George Russell Foulger they had
They had three kids before they came to Australia al together then had 7 kids
 I can't finds
Betty FOULGER
She pass away over 5 year




Title: Re: Lost on looking for one family member qqq?;:; ,3 Em e. Q
Post by: crisane on Sunday 02 March 14 06:39 GMT (UK)
To put a time frame to this couple

Marriages Mar 1/4 1918 
George R    Foulger       
Sophia H   Lockwood       
Registration district  Ipswich, Suffolk
vol 4a page 1958

I can only see 3 children Foulgersurname mother's maiden name Lockwood.
A girl in 1919 in Norwich.
A son 1922 in Tendring
A daughter 1923 in Tendring.

Neither of the 2 daughters born in England has a first name that would normally use Betty as a substitute.
The daughter born in 1919 married a Griffis in 1939 and the daughter born in 1923 married a Turner in 1942.
I am being careful with names because we are not allowed to give names to identify possibly living people.

When you say you can't find Betty Foulger what exactly do you mean? You seem to be saying she is dead?
Title: Re: Lost on looking for one family member qqq?;:; ,3 Em e. Q
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 02 March 14 07:07 GMT (UK)
It might also help if you can give some clues as to whereabouts in Australia they went to, or whereabouts the seven children were born in Australia.

Betty is usually a shortened form of Elizabeth, so her death may be registered with that name. Did she marry, and if so what is her married surname? Is is specifically her death you are looking for?

Remember as crisane said, if any of these people are still living, you are not allowed to give their names.

Title: Re: Lost on looking for one family member qqq?;:; ,3 Em e. Q
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 08:03 GMT (UK)
Well all my uncle and aunty are all pass away
Edna jean foulger Birth 19 may 1928
Death 28 march 2013

Lorna FOULGER Birth 1926
Death 2-3-1999

Betty FOULGER


Clement Dennis Foulger
He pass away at young age is born over sea


One child I can't finds that was Betty

Here are some of place they live redfern and macksville  nsw 


Moderator comment: topics merged to keep all information together.

Title: Re: Lost on looking for one family member qqq?;:; ,3 Em e. Q
Post by: crisane on Sunday 02 March 14 08:52 GMT (UK)
Sophia Lockwood and George Russell Foulger they had
They had three kids before they came to Australia al together then had 7 kids
 I can't finds
Betty FOULGER
She pass away over 5 year

Do you have her death certificate or even know of the name she was using when she died?
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: crisane on Sunday 02 March 14 09:02 GMT (UK)
They were in the Hunter Valley in 1936
Electoral Roll 1936
George Rowsell Foulger dairy man
Sophia Foulger home duties
Lorne
Sub district Kendall
District -    Cowper
NSW
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Nettie on Sunday 02 March 14 09:47 GMT (UK)
http://www.brianfoulgerfamilyhistory.co.uk/descendants%20of%20lazarus%20foulger%20(3a).htm (http://www.brianfoulgerfamilyhistory.co.uk/descendants%20of%20lazarus%20foulger%20(3a).htm)

This is a Foulger family history page which identifies your family but with only four children. Perhaps if you click on the home page and contact the page owner, he may be able to help you with your questions.
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 10:07 GMT (UK)
No I have no idea what her last name was when she pass away :(
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 11:18 GMT (UK)
23337/1949    
BENNETT Percy Charles
FOULGER Betty Evelyn
District Redfern

Australian Electoral Roll
1954
BENNETT Betty Evelyn 19 Wilson Lane, Golden Grove HD
BENNETT Percy Charles 19 Wilson Lane, Golden Grove  Ironworker

They do not appear together at the same address after 1954. Electoral rolls only available online to 1980.

http://www.ryersonindex.org/
BENNETT   Betty Evelyn   
Death 13 Feb 1990   
Published in the Sydney Morning Herald   14 Feb 1990   

Cheers
Cando   
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: SmallTownGirl on Sunday 02 March 14 11:42 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD has a birth registration for:

ROWSELL, Betty Evelyn
Q1 1905,
Mildenhall Registration District
Vol 4a, p. 985

STG
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 02 March 14 11:50 GMT (UK)
Sydney Morning herald 14 feb 1990

BENNETT Betty Evelyn (nee Foulger) - February 13 1990 at hospital, late of Alexandria beloved wife of Leslie William (deceased) loving mother of R and M loved grandmother of K P D K and G and loving great grandmother of C

 Rest in peace

I will pm you the names TraceyMum  :)

cheers,
   Ros

Great find Cando  :) ;)
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 12:03 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD has a birth registration for:

ROWSELL, Betty Evelyn
Q1 1905,
Mildenhall Registration District
Vol 4a, p. 985

STG

May I ask please...what is the connection  with a Betty FOULGER who the OP claims is the daughter of George Russell FOULGER and Sophia LOCKWOOD who married in 1918 in the UK and emigrated to Australia?


Betty Evelyn BENNETT was enrolled to vote at the same address as a Leslie William BENNETT from 1963 however I didn't mention it as it was possible he may have been a son.

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 12:08 GMT (UK)
BENNETT   Leslie William   
Death 15 Feb 1985  56 years
Late of Macksville
Published in the Sydney Morning Herald  16 Feb 1985   



Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 12:11 GMT (UK)
George and Sophia is Betty parent not sure if that what u mean p
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 12:13 GMT (UK)
Yesss that her as I remember Betty husband name was Les thank you so much for your help :) :)
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: SmallTownGirl on Sunday 02 March 14 12:15 GMT (UK)
> May I ask please .... what is the connection between Betty FOULGER ...

In a post above from crisane (1st post, top of p2) it says that in the 1936 ER, George Foulger was listed as George ROWSELL Foulger.

I searched, without specifying a surname, for children called Betty Evelyn/Betty E b. 1900-1918 (just in case she was born before George and Sophia were married) and up popped this name. 

I'm just throwing it into the mix ...

STG

Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: SmallTownGirl on Sunday 02 March 14 12:19 GMT (UK)
George and Sophia is Betty parent not sure if that what u mean p

George and Sophia might have brought Betty up, but that's not the same thing as actually being her birth parents.

If George gives his middle name as Rowsell in 1936 and there's a Betty Evelyn Rowsell b.1905, it seems likely to me that there's a connection, but without seeing Betty's birth certificate, we just don't know what that connection is.



Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 12:23 GMT (UK)
Yesss that her as I remember Betty husband name was Les thank you so much for your help :) :)

But she married Percy Charles BENNETT  ::)

Tracy we cannot prove that Betty Evelyn FOULGER is their dau as births are not available in NSW post 1913 online and to 1918 on CD.

Her marriage certificate to Percy Charles BENNETT would detail her age and place of birth; the names of her parents including her mother's maiden name and her father's occupation etc.

Death certificates are restricted to the general public for 30 years in NSW.

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 02 March 14 12:31 GMT (UK)
Sydney Morning Herald 16 feb 1985

BENNETT Leslie William  February 15 1985 at hospital late of Macksville dearly beloved husband of Betty, loving father of R, loved grandfather of K and P loved by all his relatives and friends aged 56 years
 
Rest in Peace

Interesting that his children are less than Betty's children

regards,
   Ros

Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 12:42 GMT (UK)
George and Sophia is Betty parent not sure if that what u mean p

George and Sophia might have brought Betty up, but that's not the same thing as actually being her birth parents.

If George gives his middle name as Rowsell in 1936 and there's a Betty Evelyn Rowsell b.1905, it seems likely to me that there's a connection, but without seeing Betty's birth certificate, we just don't know what that connection is.

Betty Evelyn FOULGER was obviously born in New South Wales and that information is simply not available in the public arena.  We have strict privacy laws.

Tracey if you purchase a transcription of either George Russell FOULGER's death certificate or his wife's, it will give the names of the children of the marriage, their ages and whether living or deceased.

George appears to be the son of ...

Marriages Sep 1886   
AMES Ellen Jane       Norwich 4b/200    
FOULGER    Clement   Norwich 4b/200

I would suggest that his name as been mistranscribed on the electoral rolls.

They had a son Clement Dennis who died in 1940 in NSW, but you may have those details.

Too late for me to type up the 1901 census.  Someone else may be kind enough to do that.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 12:56 GMT (UK)
Tracey there is a mention of a FOULGER family and a G FOULGER on the passenger arrivals index on NAA arriving Perth and then Sydney 22 Dec 1924.  There are no further details.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 13:00 GMT (UK)
A bit more on George's ancestry.....let's hope it is correct.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.warren7/7967.htm

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 02 March 14 13:01 GMT (UK)
There is a probate packet for Sophia FOULGER at NSW state records
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1119161

Sophia FOULGER (or Olive St Clair)  ???

TraceyMum I can photograph this for you next time I visit NSW state records (probably a couple of weeks) if you wish.  Probate packets may contain death certs and a will and other useful info

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 02 March 14 13:10 GMT (UK)
I thinking of getting there marry paper work

 Sophia Olive
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 22:43 GMT (UK)
Eastern Suburbs Cemetery
http://www.esmp.net.au/

FOULGER George Russell  67 years  Interred 22 Dec 1961
Location A12A – Anglican FM 12A – Grave 169

FOULGER Sophia  64 years  Interred 28 May 1964
Location A12A – Anglican FM 12A – Grave 169

BENNETT Betty Evelyn  58 years  Interred 15 Feb 1990
Location – Crematorium Chapel Gardens, Garden D11

BENNETT Leslie William  56 years  Interred 18 Feb 1985
Location – Crematorium Chapel Gardens, Garden D11

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 02 March 14 23:45 GMT (UK)
FOULGER George Russell
Baptised 1 Apr 1893 St Etheldred with St Peter Southgate, Norwich, Norfolk
Father Clement  Mother Jane Ellen.

1901 Census RG13/1841/53/33.
Living at 16 Stuart Street,  Norwich
FOULGER Clement Head  39 years  Carpenter  All born Norwich, Norfolk
FOULGER Ellen J   Wife  39 years
FOULGER Clement C  Son  12 years
FOULGER Frank A  Son 10 years
FOULGER George R Son  8 years
FOULGER Reginald E Son 6 years
FOULGER Horace Son 18 months

There was a dau by 1911
Births Sep 1904 
FOULGER Grace Hilda    Norwich 4b/140

There is a George R FOULGER, Servant, 18 years of age born England [Aug 1892] on the  1911 Canadian census living in East Huron, Ontario.  It certainly matches your George’s details especially the Sept qtr 1892 birth.  1911 Census Place Wawanosh East, Huron East, Ontario, Page 3, Family No 30.

Arrived Liverpool from Montreal on 30 Nov 1914 on the MISSANABE
FOLGER ??He, 24, Bridgeman  42 Southwell Road, Norwich.  Country of last permanent residence, Canada.  Country of intended permanent residence, England.

FOLGER Geo, 22 years, Railroad, 43 Southwell Road, Norwich.  Country of last permanent residence, Canada.  Country of intended permanent residence, England.

I found a public tree with limited information on Ancestry late last night but today it has been made private.  It appears to be yours.

Perhaps you may like to look at this public tree also.  Perhaps it was the source of your information.
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/21828663/person/1139660025

There appears to be an error with Ellen Jane’s year of death [1901] on the public tree as she was listed on the 1911 census as Jane.  Definitely her by the years of marriage and number of children.

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 09 March 14 02:34 GMT (UK)
Sophia Foulger and George they separate can anyone tell me where best area to find out more on this

Thank Tracey :)
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 02:44 GMT (UK)
They are buried in the same grave -

Quote
FOULGER George Russell  67 years  Interred 22 Dec 1961
Location A12A – Anglican FM 12A – Grave 169

FOULGER Sophia  64 years  Interred 28 May 1964
Location A12A – Anglican FM 12A – Grave 169

Did they divorce or only separate?

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 02:55 GMT (UK)
They died in the same district

32591/1961    
FOULGER    George Russell
District Balmain
     
16798/1964
FOULGER Sophia
District Balmain   

They last appear together on the 1936 electoral roll.

Their death certificates may help you eg their usual residences should be noted.

There is a George FOULGER on the roll in Sydney from 1943.  No way of knowing if it is your man.

I can't see a listing for Sophia.

Cando

Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rwindsor2905 on Sunday 09 March 14 03:47 GMT (UK)
*
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 03:52 GMT (UK)
rwindsor posted earlier in the thread  ;)

Quote
There is a probate packet for Sophia FOULGER at NSW state records
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1119161

Sophia FOULGER (or Olive St Clair)  ???

TraceyMum I can photograph this for you next time I visit NSW state records (probably a couple of weeks) if you wish.  Probate packets may contain death certs and a will and other useful info

regards,
   Ros

Cando

Ah the previous post has been removed.
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Sunday 09 March 14 04:07 GMT (UK)
They are buried in same place

Don't know if they divorce or only separate but I do know they separate

Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 04:20 GMT (UK)
Tracey are you reading all the posts on the thread?

Did you contact Ros about the probate packet she offered to copy for you?

Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 09 March 14 04:50 GMT (UK)
Yes Cando,  TraceyMum has already contacted me and I will photograph for her.  :)

If they were divorced in NSW then it should appear on NSW state records (and it doesn't).  I have also searched Sydney Morning Heralds (1955-onwards) and can't see a divorce. 

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 05:01 GMT (UK)
Ros I also checked for a divorce :)  You are an asset to the Aussie board with your visits to NSW State Records ;D

I am assuming that Sophia was also known as Olive ST CLAIR or have I misunderstood the reference?

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 09 March 14 05:14 GMT (UK)
On the probate announcement SMH Dec 11 1964

In the Estate of Sophia FOULGER (also known as Olive St Clair), late of Alexandria in the state of New South Wales, widow, deceased (intestate).  etc etc probate will be granted to Edna Jean BIRCH a daughter of the deceased

Edna Jean BIRCH died in 2013 at age 85 http://ryersonindex.net/search.php
sorry you already told us this

regards,
   Ros

(Thanks Cando ;D )
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Sunday 09 March 14 05:23 GMT (UK)
This is a possibility ...

SMH Oct 14 1956     What They Said
"After all, what's 20000 pounds" mammoth lottery winner Mrs Olive St Clair on why she can't afford a maid.

Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Sunday 09 March 14 06:47 GMT (UK)
The Argus 11 Oct 1956
Sydney Wednesday.....

£uck in a £ump   ::) ::)

The £20,000 "jackpot" ticket number - 32,434 was not drawn, but, as today's lottery was the last in the series, the holder of the ticket nearest to the number won the £20,000.

She was Mrs. Olive St. Claire, of Susan st., Newtown, number 32,441.

Cando


Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Friday 14 March 14 04:56 GMT (UK)
And Edna Jean BIRCH was living at Susan St Newtown at time of probate  :)

Just back from records office - good probate packet with George death cert, George and Sophia's marriage cert and the birth cert for one of daughters.  It also explains why Sophia used the other name.

Give me a little while to upload the photos and I will send you a link TraceyMum

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Friday 14 March 14 22:18 GMT (UK)
Thank Ros it was great help :) :)
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: Traceymum on Friday 14 March 14 22:39 GMT (UK)
Anyone point out for edna jean foulger marry date on both of her marry ??
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: rosball on Friday 14 March 14 23:12 GMT (UK)
According to NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html she married Thomas Henry DARCY in 1946 in Redfern.
reg 6798/1946

And then in 1950 divorced http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/ResultList.aspx

And then in 1962 she remarried (as Edna Jean Darcy) in Chatwood to Maxwell Ralph BIRCH reg 13079/1962

regards,
   Ros

edited to add names as were given on other thread
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Friday 14 March 14 23:15 GMT (UK)
This information has been posted on an earlier thread ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=676644.0


Cando
Title: Re: George Russell FOULGER and Sophia
Post by: cando on Saturday 15 March 14 02:51 GMT (UK)
More than likely this illegitimate birth caused the confusion with Sophia’s name.

Births Mar 1896
HALL Sophia Lockwood   Norwood 4b/130

Marriages Dec 1897
LOCKWOOD Thomas  Norwich 4b/462
HALL Alice  Norwich 4b/462

1901 Census  RG13/1842/49/24.
Living at 2 Fishers Lane, Norwich
LOCKWOOD Thomas Head Married 26 Boot and shoemaker  Born Norfolk, Norwich
LOCKWOOD Alice  Wife  Married 25  Born Norfolk, Norwich
LOCKWOOD Sophia Dau  5 years  Born Norfolk, Norwich
LOCKWOOD Hilda  Dau  3 years  Born Norfolk, Norwich
LOCKWOOD Thomas Son 1 year  Born Norfolk Norwich
HALL Andrew  Boarder  39 years   Cotton waster  Born Norfolk Norwich

Ten years later there were further children Andrew, Jack and Lewis and the parents stated they had been married 14 years and Sophia was 15 years old.  Frank H was born in 1913.

Births Dec 1898
LOCKWOOD Hilda Eliza  Norwich 4b/130

Births Mar 1900
LOCKWOOD Arthur  Norwich 4b/115

Births Jun 1900
LOCKWOOD Thomas  Norwich  4b/98

Births Sep 1901
LOCKWOOD Andre Mafeking  Norwich 4b/172

Births Mar 1903
LOCKWOOD Jack Clement  Norwich 4b/152

Births Dec 1904  [Lewis on the census]
LOCKWOOD Louis  Norwich 4b/154

Births Dec 1913
LOCKWOOD Frank H  [HILL]  Norwich 4b/215

and

Deaths Sep 1948
LOCKWOOD Thomas  73 years  Norwich 4b/425

Cando