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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: elldee on Monday 24 February 14 10:51 GMT (UK)

Title: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: elldee on Monday 24 February 14 10:51 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Can anyone tell me whether it is common for a family not to have registered the births of their children nor to have had them baptised?  I believe my gg grandmother was born in 1851 in Chelsea but I can find no birth certificate for her nor a record of baptism for her or her two siblings (probably born 1845 & 1850).  According to the 1851 census their parents were living as man and wife but were not actually married until 1852.

Thanks, Elldee.
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: ReadyDale on Monday 24 February 14 11:05 GMT (UK)
I have the same trouble...and also in Chelsea.

With regard to registration, I think it wasn't compulsory (in the sense we know now) until around 1875.
As for baptism, it could be they weren't CofE. The ones I was looking for were Catholic and I'm still trying to track them down fully.
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 24 February 14 11:27 GMT (UK)
All births had to be registered by law. However there were some births not registered. The first Statistician of the GRO  Dr. William Farr (1807–1883) estimated a 5% non-registration rate for births 1837-76, declining from  6.9% in 1841-50 to 1.8% in 1861-70.  The 1874 Act imposed a penalty for failing to register a birth.

Stan
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: dawnsh on Monday 24 February 14 11:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Elldee

Although civil registration started in 1837, birth registration wasn't compulsory until 1875.

As to baptisms, it's mainly Anglican ones that are online, the majority of Catholic ones tend to still be held by the church.

They may also have been baptised in a church whose registers haven't been deposited for safekeeping at the LMA so won't be online at Ancestry or Westminster Archives at FindMyPast

There's a list here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=430983.0

If you have narrowed down the family and census to a particular parish, it's worth checking the images as errors and omissions are known to exist. Don't rely on transcriptions.

Dawn

Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 24 February 14 11:30 GMT (UK)
Under the 1836 Act Registration was compulsory in the case of the Registrar. The onus was on him to collect births and deaths and he could be fined for failure to register them. In carrying out his duties the parents were compelled, under the Act to supply the information when asked. The Act states the parent or occupier 'shall' give information to the Registrar on a birth 'upon being requested to do so.' In official documents 'shall' means compulsion.
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=635265.msg4827179#msg4827179
Stan
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: avm228 on Monday 24 February 14 11:55 GMT (UK)
I believe my gg grandmother was born in 1851 in Chelsea but I can find no birth certificate for her nor a record of baptism for her or her two siblings (probably born 1845 & 1850).  According to the 1851 census their parents were living as man and wife but were not actually married until 1852.


In those circumstances any birth registrations and/or baptisms prior to the marriage may have been in the mother's maiden name - have you searched on that basis too?
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: softly softly on Monday 24 February 14 12:16 GMT (UK)
Have you checked to see if children's birth's were registered under the mother's maiden name as they did not marry until 1852?? I have many found where this has happened.

John
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 24 February 14 14:21 GMT (UK)
Is this the family you refer to?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=78962.msg333480#msg333480
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Monday 24 February 14 14:48 GMT (UK)
My granddad was born in Sunderland, Co Durham 1901. his birth wasn't registered either and I can't find a baptism. I even asked the local Register office to check which they did, 5 years either side. nothing.
Griff
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 24 February 14 14:55 GMT (UK)
My granddad was born in Sunderland, Co Durham 1901. his birth wasn't registered either and I can't find a baptism. I even asked the local Register office to check which they did, 5 years either side. nothing.
Griff

What was his name, and who were his parents?
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Monday 24 February 14 15:55 GMT (UK)
Hi KGarrad, He was John Aubrey Hulme, parents Theophilus, Mary Frances nee Smith
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 24 February 14 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hmmm! Elusive, isn't he?!
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Monday 24 February 14 18:07 GMT (UK)
indeed he is  >:(   I have a feeling they moved south just around the time of his birth and just didn't register it, but thank you anyway KGarrad  ;)
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 25 February 14 08:23 GMT (UK)
Looking at one of the census I notice they had 10 children, was he  the only one not to have been registered

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Tuesday 25 February 14 19:01 GMT (UK)
HI Louisa, that's a yes. Typical  really that the only one not registered was my granddad
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 25 February 14 22:08 GMT (UK)
Yes, I always find the one I want the most is the most elusive, a shame

LM
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Tuesday 25 February 14 22:11 GMT (UK)
I have somewhere around 100 bmd certs and its the only one I want that I know I will never get :-( ain't it always the way lol
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 25 February 14 22:14 GMT (UK)
have you been in contact with the General registrar at Southport, ONS, I do believe they will do a search for you = or - a couple of years it may be

LM
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: Gone on Tuesday 25 February 14 22:20 GMT (UK)
I did request a search and nothing found, I think it was "overlooked" by my g grandparents, one of his siblings was registered well after the required date and they gave a false dob so I'm not surprised they missed one altogether, it was around the time they moved south From Sunderland and over the next 3 years ended up in Southampton.
Title: Re: No Birth Cert or Baptism
Post by: elldee on Sunday 02 March 14 17:36 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Sorry for not replying sooner.  Thanks for all the replies. This is who I'm searching for (you are correct Carol8353):

Annie Ellen Henderson, born 1851?, Chelsea (siblings Caroline Amelia & George)
Father - George Frederick Henderson
Mother - Emily Skipper

I hadn't considered that the family might be Catholic but as Annie was married at St Luke's, Chelsea and her parents were married at Battersea parish church, both of which I think are Anglican, it looks unlikely to be the reason I can't find them.

I have looked for the births under Skipper but have not discovered any matches. 

Many thanks, Elldee